Amaury Pierron – Working With RockShox to Win World Cups

0:00We're like, oh, okay, you want to play that game? A lot of what we do is about built in the relationship with these riders and understanding when they're telling us something, what are they actually meaning? For a rider that can be an opportunity or can be kind of net-map. It's always fun when you feel like you're going faster and faster on your bike, but you're not out of control. Hey everyone, I'm Chris Ho, and this is the Down Time Podcast. The podcast for the true fans of gravity mountain biking, taking you deeper into the sport than anywhere else. As always, make sure you follow this show by hitting that button in your podcast app now or head into downtimepodcast.com for such follow. Give us a follow on Instagram, Facebook and TikTok too with a at-down time podcast. And for the full inside line, join our newsletter at downtimepodcast.com for such newsletter. If you want to help support the show, then the best way is via a small regular donation over at patreon.com for such down time podcast. Or you can help out by sharing the episode with your friends or online

1:00or leaving us a nice review over on Apple podcasts. All right, this episode is brought to you in paid partnership with SRAM and Rockshox. Who've supported us to make this conversation happen? You can check out everything they're working on over at SRAM.com. While I was at New Zealand, I caught up with Amory Pierron to unpack the highs and lows of the past couple of seasons from those incredible wet weather winds at the Valaisole and Lesier World Cups to break in his collarbone and a twill and then coming back to take the wind in Lens of Hyde later that season. Then we're joined by SRAM Race Tech Craig Miller and Rockshox Long Travel Product Manager Jason Blodget to go deeper into how they work alongside Amory and the Commissar Mukoff team to find World Cup winning pace. We get into some of the latest Rockshox tech and explore how a close athlete engineer relationship not only benefits those at the top of the sport but also us everyday riders. This is a rare insight into the relationship between athlete and engineer at the sharpest end of the sport. So without further ado, here's Amory Pierron, Craig Miller and Jason Blodget. And Amory Pierron, welcome back to the down time podcast, mate.

2:04How are you? Thank you very much. Not bad, I mean, what a good type to be here. New Zealand, second time in my life and the play stills really sick. It breaks the winter out weather, good tracks everywhere, good people. I mean, yeah, everything is made for it. You have any good time? Well, we're going to be talking tech with some of your friends from Rockshox in a little bit. Before we do that, there's a few bits and pieces from the last few seasons that I want to catch up on. The first off was that vowed a soul run in the wet in 2024 where you put, I think, 4.8 seconds into Dakota. What happened there, dude? There was that point in the season for you, you just seemed to be on a completely different plane. It was, I think everything started from the year before crash and I was kind of struggling to get back to speed. And I think those conditions really suit me well because Valdezol is a super technical track

3:05and in the way it's again another level. So it's not about going fast, I would say. It's just about being composed on the track. And so that's why it suits me well. Because at that time, I couldn't go fast really well. But being composed, that was the perfect timing for me. So at that time, I was just composed on my line. Happy with the bike, and with the team, the life. Everything was jailed in my life. And it goes well at that time. So perfect track, perfect condition for me, for getting back to speed. Was there anything in the bike set up that you did particularly differently then? Or obviously, because track was running quite slow because of the conditions, and it was super greasy and roots were sleek as so it was a really softer setup.

4:08Yeah, and on tires, did you guys have something different going on there? Was there like a softer compound? Yeah, we cannot remember when, but we started to use like super soft compound, which will be, and it was useful this year, because it was a lot of time. It was a lot of races. Well, yeah, because we went on from there to Laixier. And you put on another master class, I think, 6.4 seconds ahead of Andy Cobb in second. Yeah. One more time, I cannot explain like the margin. I'll just mind blowing when you say it. But while riding, it could be, and another run. Another good run. But if you ask me at the finish line, is it you time good or no? Say, yeah, I did a good run, but I couldn't imagine like time like this, so it's, yeah.

5:09I would prefer like having a small margin and keep those margin to win the other race, you know? Would be better. Did those particular runs feel any different to other race runs? Like, you hit sometimes here, riders talk about getting into a flow state in some of these runs where the time is just completely insane. Yeah, honestly, it was really flow state, but nothing felt like crazy. Laixier was the same, like just composed. And nothing felt crazy, I just felt good. I was for sure in my zone. And yes, the best moments on the races, he asked all the nerves before. At the top, Laixier was really particular because, I think we didn't add any training in the mud. He was dry, dry, dry all week. And the rain came after our last training run, and we knew it's going to be a carnage. So we were at the top. Like you could see like, questions in other,

6:10other people, you know? And some people were like totally lost. I mean, maybe not lost, but doing the warm shots, I would say, starting with dry tires, and everything was like, what the fuck? You're doing crazy. He was like, pouring rain since two hours. But so he was really funny. And yeah, just this is the best time you feel. You feel the pressure. You mean, under the tent with every other racers? That's when you thrive. Yeah, it's good. I like it. You like the pressure. How have those two race runs? Do you have, like, a favorite? Did one feel better than the other? In terms of proper, like, I mean, just about race runs, I would say Ligier, because he was just more carnage, like, pouring rain. I remember, like, full-white, I just take off the white Google and my mechanic didn't knew I would take the white

7:11Google. We were like, oh, OK, you want to play that game? And so that was funny. And yeah, you make everything to stay dry. Then you take off your jacket, and you clog the, yeah, you just start to race fun. And then two meters after, you like, so quiet, like, and you just riding in a river. That was riding in a river. So there is nothing to compare that. So that was really good. Nice. Then you finished off the season with an injury. It was a hand injury. You picked up a monster now. Yeah. It took a while to recover from that, right? It was more complicated. Yeah, and still not recovery 100%. Really? Yeah. So that was the end of 24 as well, right? Yeah, yeah. What did you do? I hit a tree. Like, nothing crazy, but just, like, bottom one sentence section. It was super dark. And tried to avoid some holes, going a little bit inside.

8:11And I just didn't even notice a tree, or at least notice well, if it was far enough, and just put my hand into the tree, tada. And the result was a broken metacarpal, which I was like, OK, that's it. But I came back. There was a goal of my life. So I'm happy. And within two weeks should be good. Finally, not at all. Right. Little, the more little injury can be the toughest. And finally, was like, the pain stays there. And we needed, like, finally going to the maybe surgery. But then it was too close to the season. So what we do, OK, yes, no, finally, no. And then after the season, after this season, after the break, I felt good to do nothing for a bit,

9:12and felt really good. But after we kind of rode every day here, and at the end of the week, he started feeling it again. But we never do as much as riding as we do here. So maybe it should be good to then. OK. Interesting. After a lot of riding, he's still really hurting. Oh, man, fair play. Well, considering you've been dealing with that, like the start of the 25 season went pretty well. I think at a third in Poland, second in Ludenville. Lear gang, not quite so good, 18th, but then vowed a soul. It all went horribly wrong. Yeah, started good, not crazy good, but just a restocked, to be consistent, quality final in the top three. And yeah, finally, Lear gang was a disaster for the team. We were like, I was third. Loris was, I think, maybe P1 in quality.

10:15But we ended up 20s, something. So it was kind of a super wet race, a lot of wind, like any of the top 10 riders. And ended up, I guess, in the top five ended up in the top 15, which is weird for a race. So we make and concentrate as a wind. We don't know. We never know. But yeah, after that, I was like angry for Valid Soleil. But I was not in my riding. I was just doing, as I always do, trying to build the weekend. And the last run, checking my lines, went over the bar, which was a bad place to do, because you were super steep. So I crashed from really high and, yeah, breaking my carbon. So then from that, you was a kind of warrior mode. Talk us through that, because it seems incredible

11:16that you were back racing in Lithuania. Like, what steps did you go through to get to that point? At that point, I was like, I ran through really kind of depressed for a little bit. And then I was like, OK, from now we go, OK, we focus on the process. So first, we go to the surgery, because then when I go quick, and it's always easier to come back from a carbon with the surgery. And the plan was not to race first for Latvian and Anderra, because we have a long break after that. But still in mind, there was a little case, you know what? Maybe we can. And after surgery, I felt really good. Like, I never felt that good. And from that, I was like, OK, let's make everything I can to be back in one week.

12:18Like, what can you do at that point? Is there anything you can do with your nutrition or your movement to try and speed things up? So yeah, everything. I mean, nutrition, you can eat well. It's really helping you. Your sleep is really important. And then, of course, the movement, you need to start moving quickly. And yeah, believing the mindset is the biggest part of the game. And you can help your recovery with your mind. We've seen, because it's a carbon, I mean, I will say it's easy. But if you look at other people, we have friends in France. Janis Pelle, I don't know if you already had a body. He crushed bad. And it is his final. And so he was like, no way. I want to come back on the back.

13:19And he played hard with the mind game and trying to focus on the work of a process. And he did amazing things. And he's not the only one. There is a lot of story like this. And so it's not, I would say, always possible. But if you believe it, and maybe you have some luck on your side, it can happen. Yeah. So when did you get back on a bike? I would say, like, I got surgery and maybe two days went back on the bike on Sunday or Monday before Valdezol. And yeah, the race wasn't Saturday or before La Trille. So the race was on Sunday as well. So yeah, just once on the downhill bike to see how it goes and it felt scary first.

14:21Take it easy and then step by step, run after run. Not a lot of fun, but making steps. And yeah, La Trille was like a real challenge to get back because that track is in the joke. And that was tough. Yeah, not an easy track to come back to, right? No, that's all. Yeah, it was a worst one. Super steep, brand new. So it was first low me, but the woods went out super quickly. Yeah, I got destroyed. And he was kind of blind under the dust. So you couldn't see it. So he was like, knowing every woods with that thing, seeing them. So he was like, touch it, that line is good. It was kind of hard, but it was a challenge. And hopefully everything went well. I tried to put every changes on my side by every step

15:22I did and it works. It was hard. Did you have to change anything on the bike to compensate or were you able to run like a normal set up? No, we went softer. Yeah, I kept tire bars and making everything possible to make it smooth for my upper body. Yeah. And how did you feel by the time you got to the time sessions of like, colleagues, semis, Q1, Q2, sorry? Q1. I didn't make it in Q1, obviously. I think I was 30. And then tensing Q2, so on the line. On the edge, it couldn't be slower. But it was just good enough to make it. And for finally, I had an extra motivation. And it was just a little bit. And I could do a little bit better. I couldn't do better what I did.

16:24And when I crossed the line, I was like, I think, I quickly get out of the outside. I was like, OK, I go hike a bit and see you one day. And when I came back, like, fuck, I'm tensed. What the fuck? Because his truck was so nearly. And everybody, there was a lot of questions. It was really, really take. So he'd played in my father. But at the end, it didn't really matter. Because my place in the overall was not so good. But at least I tried everything to play it. And sometimes it goes well, sometimes not. And he was not that bad. He was just a rage. It's impressive. It's very, very impressive result, mate. And then it was kind of a bit up and down from there on. Until we got to Lensahide. And then the good things started to happen, right? Yeah, I don't know. Lensahide weekend, it's funny, because there

17:25was kind of the worst weekend of my life. Racing, talking about racing. Like every run I did, I had something wrong, something wrong. Like it was kind of, everything was against us. Like with culture, losing part of the bike, at some point, I was like, maybe it's a sign, and I don't have to write. I was like, every single run was wrong. But in another hand, the speed was there, felt good. And yeah, I was ready to push, but I was kind of scared. And even the morning before the race, he was still having problems on the bike. Actually, everything goes well, and it goes well. And then I finished a job or no. But this time, he was like, out of my hands,

18:27and I couldn't do anything. But at the end, did you do an eye-cooled and he works enough to take the win? Which is incredible, on a track with margins so tight, to have had a weekend just challenging as that, and then still take the win. You could see how much it meant to you at the finish. Yeah, it felt good, because it was a tough season, being closed first, had two first ones, and then injured, and then come back with the win. It was really felt good, you know? But yes, I was, maybe, the key to succeed there, because as you said, it was super close in margin, and maybe then I played a little bit safer. So my pace was not super high, but maybe I did less mistakes, as also. That's how I see it. Because also, we're like pinned, but making mistakes. So we never know.

19:31Good work, they make, right? We should bring in your friends from RockShox, and we're going to talk a bit of tech on some of the new stuff that you guys have got for this season. So we'll wrap up this little section, and we'll bring those guys in. All right, we're joined by Craig Miller and Jason Bloggett. Craig, just give us a brief overview of your role, and what it is you do. So yeah, I'm a SRAM race tech, working the World Cup circuit on the downhill side, and I work primarily with commonsol. Nice, and Jason, your role? Yeah, I'm the RockShox product manager for our long travel forks, so that's Pike, Lyric, Zeb, and Boxer. Good stuff. We'll start with you, Emory. The team went back to RockShox in 2025 and that. From a rider perspective, that's a big change, right? There's a lot of work to do there, I guess. Yeah, definitely it's for a rider that can be an opportunity, or can be kind of an admirer. Of course, the key we were, it was a real opportunity. We already walked together in the past,

20:33and was really good to be back with them. With another program, I would say, we were really more focused on the racing side, and for us, it was really, really helpful. Good stuff. And Craig, how do you work alongside the athletes to help them get up to speed on both, like there's the products in the way it functions, but there's also the language, I guess, like every brand has a slightly different language and way to tune the product. Yeah, and each brand's got their own language, and then each nationality of riders has a fog about their own sort of different way of talking. And a lot of what we do is about building their relationship with these riders and understanding when they're telling us something, what are they actually meaning? So we do a lot of pre-season testing and a lot of just spending time with these guys to really get to know them, get to know who they are, and understand like when they're asking for something, what are they actually meaning,

21:33and translate it through to terms that we can work with. Yeah, and you did a big camp out in Tennessee at the Windrock National, right? You guys hung around afterwards. There was a lot of work there, I guess, like how much time do you think it takes to, like, on board a team? Yeah, it's quite a process to on board a team. I'm in quite a lucky position. I was in France for quite a few years beforehand, so I had a good relationship with Loris and these guys before, and then starting to work with Omri and Miriam and the twins, like, there is a bit of time there, learning what they're after, how they want to work as a race process, and takes time, but I feel with these guys I was really clear communication. They were very straightforward and what they wanted and how they wanted the bikes to behave, and we're in a really good place to work with them. Good stuff. And Jason, you've fairly recently done a huge update to the product line that these guys are racing. Like, how much input into the design process

22:35comes from this top-level World Cup racing? Yeah, a ton of it, to be honest. And that's where we really rely on Craig and the race team kind of filtering some of that athlete feedback and giving it back to us, as Craig said, and some of the language that we're all used to. And really, like, if Craig and the team are seeing common themes, those are the things that we're really going to hunt out when we go back to the drawing board and start working on a new product or making an improvement. So yeah, it's a ton of athlete feedback that goes into specifically our downhill product. And then that's really kind of our proving ground for our longer travel suspension. And then there's things that we learn in there that we want to put into our trail bike forks. And that's really where the end consumer benefits, not everybody gets the privilege to ride a downhill bike, whether they're just based on their environment is the big key.

23:36So we really want to take that athlete feedback and give it to the end consumer. Yeah, is there an example you could give of something that came from the World Cup level that has ended up in this product or influenced the design of this product? Yeah, the linear XL air spring. And so our athletes really liked the predictability of that air spring. And so they weren't surprised when it got deep into the travel of that ramp that they're used to. It still has a ramp, of course, but creating a more linear air spring eliminates some of the surprise moments that might happen when you're bombing down a World Cup track. And so taking that and bringing it and over to this new boxer. And that's helped you improve everybody. Yeah, I think so. I think consistency, composure, control, and the byproduct of all of those things is speed. And so it's always fun when you feel

24:36like you're going faster and faster on your bike, but you're not out of control. Yeah, 100%. And a linear XL is the most obvious change to this product. You can see for people that've seen the fork, I think we saw the spy shots with the big additional volume on the back of the air spring leg of the fork, but there's quite a lot of other stuff going on here. There are other kind of highlights that you'd pick out. Yeah, that one's a key one, again, that visual indicator of the linear XL air annex. The other one is our friction reduction. And that one, really, it also stemmed from racing and specifically with the commonsol team of reducing friction. So we did a ton of work in that space. And so we have a new fluid and grease lubrication system. And then we have butterwagon technology, which is focused through that, because it's pretty unique, right? Yeah, it is pretty unique. And so our engineers came up with this idea that putting a matrix of divots on the upper tube

25:37would allow us to grab lower leg fluid, fill those dimples. When the fork extends, it brings it over the bushings and then deposits that fluid over the bushings. So you're always riding on a constant thin film of oil between the bushing and the upper tube, and that provides some of that consistency as well, and some sensitivity to the fork. Yeah, and you've also made it easier to set up, right? I guess going to the linear aspirin helps a lot of that, but you also kind of streamline the dials, the clicks, everything. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, with the new Charger 3.2, we've updated the dial so that it's really easy to communicate. What setting you're into, to whether it's your mechanic in a race setting, or just your buddy on the trail with you? And we really wanted to isolate the air spring side and the damper side, so the air spring side is handling the position sensitivity, and then the damper side is handling the speed sensitivity.

26:38Yeah, nice, I like it. And Craig, obviously you don't want to disrupt athletes in the middle of their season, right? You don't want to change things and throw out set ups and stuff like that, like, how do you approach rolling out some of these changes with these guys? Because I think they had some of the elements of this product at some point last year. Yeah, a big part of what we do is making sure that when athletes go racing, they are confident on what they've got. They know it's going to behave, how they expect it to behave. They know it's going to work. So when we introduce certain parts, it's good to time it. And a lot of the times we're looking at when is it a benefit? Is it going to help the rider and all these situations? It's like, yep, very much. These are all good steps. I will look for opportunities to test, bring these things in and really prove their value outside of racing before we go. And then once we're at racing, it really just proves what their things are on the right direction or not.

27:39Yeah. But then the day still about these athletes and these guys being able to put it down. Yeah. Make sure they're in the best headspace possible and delivering on that. And you use that midseason break that we had last year to get these guys onto some of the friction reduction elements of this product. Is that right? Yeah, there's the World Cup now is very much a lot of progression constantly. Like we are testing right through the year. I think we're in February. Now we've done five, six test camps already across a number of programs. But with these guys, we're in brewed two weeks ago. We're here again. There's plenty more planned before we go racing. It's very much supporting these guys and taking the chances when we can to really help them move forward. Yeah. And, Amory, when you got that update last year with like the Butterwagon Tech and the friction reduction stuff in the product, was that a noticeable change in the way the thought was working?

28:40Could you feel that difference? Honestly, here we constantly changing, trying to find adjustment on the fork. And I'm not like the one who asked me, what have you put in my fork? I just trust those guys. And I kind of tested it and valid or not what I'm writing. But I cannot remember when we had this new stuff inside. But definitely from when we test for sure the final product, it was so the total final product was in brewed before, yeah. So just two weeks ago. And from that, we were like, OK, yes, that's for sure. Like, this is sick, what you've done. And we did a great job all season before

29:42towards this final product race ready. And how does that impact you as an athlete? Because you've got this linear air spring now. Are you noticing the predictability of the fork? Are you finding less surprises from it? Yeah, definitely. I would say extra butter everywhere. And especially on this big impact, where you can like, scare to bottom out and bounce back, it's finally just gets smoother. So just make you free to do what you want. And how does that translate to normal riders, right? Because these guys are writing a very different pace and with a very much different set up than the vast majority of us will ever have. How do you find that that feeling that these guys are getting benefit from also translates to us? Yeah, I think the big one is, I don't get the opportunity to ride my downhill bike nearly as much as I want to. And usually when I do, it's the first day

30:44at the park of the year. And I can't feel my hands after three runs. But I think specifically to that friction reduction, we did a bunch of days in a row in the bike park here, just a ton of laps. And as a group that was here, there is probably 10 of us on downhill bikes. And I didn't hear one person talk about, oh, my hands are sore, my arms are sore. So I think that's a really big one that might not go noticed until you go backwards a step. And then you're like, wow, I feel like my teeth are getting rattled out. And does this make things easy for you, Craig, from a set up, respectively? Having the clicks being more equal, having the cross talk between rebounds and compressions removed as much as possible, and this linear air spring. Does that simplify your job? Or does these guys just demand slightly different things? No, very much so. Effectively, suspension is compromised.

31:45Like when you affect one thing, you're going to change something. And even if you take it to a greater system, and you're not just talking about the fork in itself, as you change an air pressure at the front, you're going to move the rider's weight balance. So like the more isolated you can do a small change. So in this case, if we're less cross talk across our compressions, we are able to work on just that factor without affecting the overall picture. And the more you can reduce those compromises that when you're making one impact your effect and somewhere else, the easier it is to try and zone in on where these guys are going. And it is really good working with, like, homeray guys at this level. The way they're testing, the way we're working with them, they're doing repeated runs at a pace that went actual time spread across the runs that these guys do in a day is unbelievable. As in small. Yeah, like across a sort of two minute run,

32:47they'll maybe have a one and a half second spread throughout an entire day. And considering we've got changing weather conditions, rider fatigue, stopping for lunch, changing weight, it all has an effect of when we can actually really narrow in and one small change in how that's impacting. It's a lot of work, but we start to really build a picture of what effects are going to have at a race. Because like, testing with these guys, we're not trying to find the best setup on that test session. What we're trying to do is build a picture of how each thing affects the overall system so that we can replicate that at a race run, as they've got a million other things going on in a race weekend. And like, homeray is trying to recover from a collarbone while still trying to get up to race pace. It's like, it's an unbelievable mental load that's on these guys. So the more we can isolate out individual factors and understand the effect that's happening, the less we have to go in circles. So consistency in the product really helps on that side of it.

33:48Yeah, and does the like the improved lubrication help with consistency over time? So a workup like these guys have their suspension service every day, I think, pretty much, or at least on arrival. Not so much, just on arrival. On arrival, we reset the guys back to a solid base of a service and the majority of riders we don't need to go back in there through the race weekend. And to be honest, we probably don't need to go in as much as we do, but it's a set process of when you get a world cup, we'll reset the lubrication back to the base level. We'll take out whatever dust is built up or anything that's built in the seals, but on the whole, we don't need to service as much as we do, but we do so that we build this process of a world cup day one. Like the track walk day, all the teams know the bring their suspension in. We'll get a service where getting back to a solid base setting that we can then evolve through the race weekend. Yeah, and Jason, would you expect like longevity of performance to be better with those designs? Like a shame you just get your flowing more fluid around the product.

34:49Yeah, absolutely. You don't notice as much as a degrade over performance. Usually when you pull a product straight out of a box or you buy a brand new bike, that's the best it's ever going to feel. But we have a ton of test data and we've done a ton of work to kind of quantify what that degrade in performance is until you get to that first 50 hour lower leg service. And we found huge wins in that department with butterwagon tech, with new fluid and grease. And we do have a new wiper seal as well from SKF. So we found some really big wins and in kind of managing that degrading performance across the first 50 hours. Yeah, and Craig, talk to us a little bit about the data side of things. Do you still use data quite heavily in the testing phases with these guys? And are you seeing differences in that data based on the performance of the fork? Does it change the way you work at all? Yeah, data has become massive.

35:49Well, it's really grown in the last five years and the accessibility of data acquisition systems to teams in the way they've been built. Recently, it's made it a lot more applicable to what we're doing. You'll find a majority of teams now have data access systems, something we are really, really enjoying having, to be honest. Teams, especially commons with Arthur, are really in debt from their data. And it allows these guys to bring evidence and actual help us build a picture outside of just the rider feedback. And rider feedback is what drives everything. They're the guys on the bike. They're still the ones who've got to pilot. The data is just a way to help us build up a picture of what's happening in the underlying causes. It could be contributing to that feedback. And across all the programs that we've got,

36:51we get to build a really large picture of what's going on. But then within the data, you start tailing it and start looking at what certain riders are looking for, and how riders are behaving, frames are behaving, and then how our products are interacting with what that rider looks for. And even across teams, lawyers to Omri, very different riders, and you see that trace, and you see that picture build. And it's like, OK, our products are able to do all of these different asks. There's a lot going on in there that you're like, nope, with one base system, we can cater for all these guys. And with that new fork, is it easier to move, say you see data in one place, and you need to move it to another place? Is it easier to make that, how would you call that, translation into what I do on the fork now that you have the equal spacing in the damping clicks? You've got the lack of crosstalk.

37:51Does that simplify that element of it? Yeah, very much so. I mean, a lot of the role that I do is I play a bridge between our race department and our engineering department. And the guys on the engineering side have been absolutely superb with us. They really are interested in race and some of the guys really love it. And when we ask for the information on that engineering side that we can then tie to data and for the new products, it's where they would build such a big picture because everyone in the background really is they're passionate about it, they're keen to be involved, and they're there to help. It's hard not to love it, isn't it, for sure? It's a good job. What's your relationship with data, Amory? Like, how heavily do you get involved in that? Yeah, I'm involved a lot by, on myself, by far, I really like to trust my feelings, but it's really useful to understand my words

38:52because sometimes I'm like talking shit, the way for the words. And just sometimes, even for me, I'm kind of lost. And I need the data to support my feeling. I'm at that point, and I can point a specific term, a specific verb on a track, and it's precise. And I'm like, okay, here, this is happening. I don't feel good, or I feel amazing. Can you have a look on this and understand what's happening? And then, you know, there's a magic happen, out through on those girls, can read these loose lines, but I cannot. But then, we can understand what really happened, and correct it, or understand what's working well, and then make it better for the rest of the track, or for the next races, or next curve, or whatever.

39:55And would you ever, like, when you test, would you ever go purely on an improvement in time, or are you more, like, if the bike felt horrible, but it was faster? How would you approach that? I really like to, again, trust my feelings, because timing can be tricky at some points, but, you know, I put my feeling first. And you've been on the new wireless DH transmission as well. How do you find it? Like, what's the benefit from your perspective? Is it that ability to shift under load out of the gate? Honestly, I was first scared. But, you know, when there is new stuff, you're always scared. I mean, you ask question to yourself. But straight from first try on it, I felt good. It's super silent. You can shift under load, which is really, really good compared

40:58than before. You can quack your words on. And then, yeah, bike is even more silent as before, so it's what you want. It's really, really happy about it. And you guys have done the maths right, Jason, I think, on the ground gained by being able to shift under load out of a start gate. And there's some maths that supports it. Yeah, there's some math. And when you look at it, it might be like, you're in your head, you're like a tenth of a second or two tenths of a second, and you're like, then you go back and you look at some of the results from some of the World Cup races. And it would definitely reshuffle some of the podium around. So, yeah, we do have some really cool data to support that it is faster. But also, I think, to Amory's point of it being silent, there's a mental part of that, too, that you can't really quantify. Of like, my bike is silent, that means it's working well.

42:00And this is all coming down to the way the clutch works or what's driving that silence. Yeah, there's a part of it on the clutch side of it. You know, it's not necessarily my department. No, but I did spend some time on that development team as well. But yeah, it's a big piece of rotation of the derailleur as well. So, it's not slapping around on the back and then that clutch force. Yeah. And we're well into preseason now, Amory. Like, what kind of work are you doing here? I know you're at Coronet Pete yesterday smashing some laps out. What sort of stuff are you looking at? Right now, we're trying to change a bit like the... Or... Can you actually come to the bike? So, it changes as well or suspension setup. So, we work together with the guys. And yeah, trying to understand how to be faster

43:01with kind of new way of making the bike working, which is really interesting. But, yeah, you ask a lot of questions. Do this is really good? Does this gonna be good on any tracks? And so, I mean, it's a really good place to be because we have a ton of different tracks here. So, we spend already one week, one more week to do. So, yeah, a lot of friends and other belts, which is good. And I think everybody is happy to be here and excited already for the season. We still have two months, I guess. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, it's good. I think we're in good shape. Nice. And how hard are you riding at this point? Like, this feels like the point where you're starting to ramp up to a pretty serious pace. I think it's a serious testing base.

44:07And know is the kids you're like, far, you need to go. I was gonna ask about that. Like, you've got some fairly fast teammates coming into your category and some other fast guys coming up into elite. Like, how are you feeling about that? Because, you know, one of the current crop of top riders and suddenly, that's gonna get more challenging, I think. Yeah, definitely. I think it's gonna be at least three sports out of quality will be taken by X Jr. Which means 10%. Yeah. Which means a lot of old riders on the edge. But now, definitely, young girls are insanely good. And it's crazy because we can do like a full day of lap testing here. And at the end of the day, they go on the dirt jump, sending massive jumps. I could never do this in my life. And they do it after a few days of testing.

45:09So, they really skilled on a bike. They fit. Even if they don't really do the job. But, somehow, they are fit. And, no. I see it as an opportunity to kind of stay young, stay in the game. Because when you're getting older, you can easily relax on, I don't know to say, or to say, but relax on what you've done. But with those girls, you're like, you see a different approach. Yeah. And I think it keeps you a bit young. And I think that's all Greg Minaar. That's a secret. Because you always had younger teammates. And I think that's all keeps him young. Fair play. So, I try to learn from them. Do you think it's potentially a benefit?

46:10Like, at least you've got two of them in your team. Like, you're with them. You see what they're doing. You get to ride with them. You know how they're riding at that pace. Whereas there's other top riders that don't have these fast kids in the team. Yeah, for sure. Because everybody is watching them. With us is, for sure, it's good for us. Because for me, I felt like I've been better just being with them. Watching Goopos with them. You do this. I didn't even sing that line. Or whatever they are so creative. So, it's just open your minds. And I think it's really helpful for us. Nice. How is it working with Max until Craig? Is it a different approach to working with these guys? Yeah, very much so. They're also juniors. They're stepping up first-year elite. Like, even just making that jump from junior to first-year elite. It's a massive, massive challenge.

47:13And where it's like, Omnie Loris, these guys have got ten years of experience and understanding, communicating with buzz, requesting what they're wanting and, like, for these kids, it's also their second language, which is you've always got to remember like, these guys do a remarkably good job speaking in different languages and sort of translating what they're trying to feel. But at this point in time, they don't have the same race experience that Omnie and Loris have got. And that's going to develop. And a lot of what we're here just now is starting to build that relationship with them to understand what they're looking for, how they're going to ask for that situation and start to learn the way they talk. They are a different generation of rider come through and they haven't had the same opportunity in the past to talk about settings and they haven't needed to. Like, as a junior, you are focused on developing as a rider. Whereas now they're up until late,

48:14while we're talking about the winning margins get so tight unless Omnie smokes Regie again and totally changes that. But I think, like, what Jason was saying, like the margins are so tight, like, I think Andorra was 0.15 at World Champs from first to fifth. It's, you start looking for these tiny little improvements in certain areas, whereas like, as a junior, you're able to focus more on the riding, the bike, sort of like the bike handling skills and managing a race. And now they're coming to first year late in a World Cup. They are going to have a big load on them just to handle Q1, Q2. Well, that whole change of race format is a big thing for them. So to manage their energy through a weekend is going to be a different game. But we're also starting to look for much smaller margins to win a race. So we're going to have to start looking at settings and we're going to gain a little bit here, a little bit there. And building that relationship with those guys to understand what they're asking for that gives them that

49:16a little bit of extra confidence to push in different areas. And now you've spent a little bit more time with those two. Are they doing anything different in this setup? Do you feel that they were on a good setup coming in? And like, can you make much improvement from where they're at? There's definitely, there's always improvements to make. And that's part of my role is making sure that we are always moving forward and moving forward with these guys. The juniors have been, or they're not juniors now, the first to release. The kids, they've been really fantastic in the way that they're starting to come back to us and what they want from their bikes. And in comms, they're primarily the team that I work with when we work across all the race programs. They've got a structure where Arthur really looks after the technical side of it and then that filters down to, they've got the technicians for each rider and sort of building that communication from rider to Arthur to myself.

50:18All as a group is pretty key. And we're starting to sort of like see the differences between them. Well, the last year we were kind of quite happy to be like, okay, you guys focus and race and we'll give you a base setup we'll support you where you're needed. And now it's like, okay, Max and tell the both want to go in slightly different directions. And it's like, okay, let's understand why you want to do that. Let's understand your feedback as to why we're going there so then we can help move from there. How would you define those different directions? Is there a way to sort of explain that? They're even just in the way that they talk with us. They're different kids. Yeah, and we've got to sort of like learn different styles. Kind of both phenomenal in the bike when you watch them. Max all through the last season was such a consistent. He was always there. Teal had a little bit more up and down,

51:19but if you take his run in Lithuania, he was really on it that day. We think Max right now, we're a little bit more towards where Omris kind of direction is. Teal a little bit more on the lawyer's side. And I think for these guys to have such mentors in the team is really going to help them to get to watch the way these guys work. So even for me, I'm not having to spend time trying to teach them how to talk. They're learning from these guys. Yeah. How do you feel about sharing that knowledge that you've built up the memory, right? Because these kids are just coming to try and beat you. And then you're there like as this mentor to them and kind of helping them along. Is that a tricky balance for you? Honestly, not truly. Because I know them from... I don't really know them from a long time, but I've seen them from a long time.

52:20And they were like, kid like this. And for sure, no, we're going to race against each other. But as I told you, I felt like I learned more for them than they can learn from me. Because it's like they never asked for anything like watch your line or watch your setup or whatever. Maybe they can hear some stuff or whatever they can pick it. But you know, if I can help them for streets, it's good. And it's an honor because I know they're going to be the next queen or whatever. And so that's good. But I think it's just a good time together. If I can help them, I'm happy. And they help me. Nice. It seems to be working for Acer and Aaron together. Like same thing. I think Aaron's benefiting as much from being with Acer as Acer is from Aaron.

53:23You know, for sure, it looks really interesting. And I think, yeah, Acer can learn from Aaron for sure and Aaron can learn from Acer. Yeah, it's the same thing. The same dynamic. Good stuff, man. So how you feel in the head of the season? Then we've got like, say a couple of months. And then we're off to a brand new, brand new track that no one seems to know a huge amount about. How you feel about that? I'm really excited, already excited to discover new stuff, new venue. So it's going to hopefully be a good track. Should be, apparently. But as you said, yeah, we know anything. So it's the big surprise. But yeah, excited for the season. Last season. Well, a bit tough. And yeah, we'd like to have some good season under the belt. Good stuff, man. I'm excited to watch how you all get on and wish you all the best for the season. If people want to follow you over the year, it's the best place for them to look. Instagram or YouTube.

54:23Okay. You're going to carry on doing some YouTube stuff as well. Yeah, yeah, try. Nice. Good stuff. I'll stick links in the show notes for that. And for you guys, if people want to follow like RockShox or find out about the new transmission, where are they looking? Yeah, all of our social channels, either under RockShox or SRAM MTV, and then of course, SRAM.com. Perfect. I'll do links for all that stuff in the show notes. But yeah, thanks for your time. I know it's a hectic week. I'm sure you've got plenty more laps to do on the hills around here. So enjoy the rest of the time in your Queenstown trip. And yeah, can't wait to see how the season goes. Thank you very much. Cheers, guys. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. All right. That's it for this episode with Amory Craig and Jason. I really hope you've enjoyed it. A big thank you to SRAM RockShox for making this conversation possible. Once again, you can check out what they're working on over at SRAM.com. As always, a big thank you to those of you who support this show in any way. Be that sharing these episodes with your friends or online. Leaving the podcast to review somewhere like Apple podcasts. Or if you really want to help out then by supporting us over at patreon.com for slash downtime podcast.

55:24Stay connected by following the show. Just hit that button in your podcast app now. We're head to downtownpodcast.com for slash follow. If you want a bit more downtime, then you can follow us on Instagram, Facebook or TikTok where we're at downtime podcast. And if that's still not enough, then you can get the full inside line by joining our newsletter at downtimepodcast.com for slash newsletter. All right. That's it for today. We're going to have plenty more awesome episodes coming up really soon. But until next time, get out and ride.