A Numbers Game | January 22, 2026 | Hour 3

0:00This is Vscent, the sports betting network. The numbers told the story now is down. Swandals, idiots who believe in analytics. This is a numbers game with Kill Ivoix-Hunter, gone Vscent. Our number three of a numbers game at Vscent, these sports betting network Vscent.com, Game Plus, I-Hard Radio, YouTube TV, Serious Exhibit Channel 158. It's Kill Ivoix-Hunter. We appreciate however you take us in, and if you've tuned in now, you know what time it is, third hour on a Thursday. That means it's unscripted with the Cragman Bill Crackenberger. Let's do it. Belly? Hey, come on in. Just have to figure out where live. If you've come in here, what was your description of yourself this morning?

1:01I'm just in a bad mood. I wasn't. Yeah. But I'm just in a bad way with things with people. People, just people. That's all it is. It's just people. Yeah. Todd Wischneff's quote, copyright quote, people worst invention ever. Let me be blunt. Yeah. Shouldn't you wake up? There's people in my life that send me jokes, like a couple of people, like joking around, like they send me a tweet, or something that's funny, or no, what's it called? It means the Instagram or TikTok. TikTok, that's a funny thing. Or that's like a mob related. They know I like that mob related genre. So, but I'm not a joke guy. You're never going to see me send you a joke, or something that's funny. It's very rare anyway. But I want to be one of them. I do. I want to wake up and sunshine rainbows and mollipops. Yeah. You should be happy in the morning. You get up. It's a sunrise. It should be the happiest time of the day. It should be the happiest.

2:01And I got to be blunt. That's the reason why I say, and I'm not just saying that because I'm in the moment. I have a limited shelf life in this media industry. I think it's going to, like I said, it's going to be a couple more years. And, you know, I made some commitments to be on for another couple of years with some things. But it's a social media thing. You're supposed to ignore a lot of things. And, you know, I showed you last week. I showed you some guy was saying, you know, I was in that party that they had here. And a Fed said, hey, you have a piece of me in the contest. Oh, right. And I said, come on, I'm going to go parade around the casino with the check. I said, no, come on, you're coming. So I said, all right, come on, I'm going to go eat. Of course, physics parades around. Yeah, well, everyone did. Everyone had their check. And the person in front of us had the three points. Three points, seven million. Those girls. Good for them. The family, which is a great story. I know I said it. I'll say it again. What a great brother wanted to get in it.

3:01Couldn't get it. Couldn't have his old partner in it. He didn't have the 500 bucks. They went, I think they're my five-grade easier before. And he asked the three sisters. And he asked the mother, the 82-year-old mother. They put up 200 each. How great is that? They have the family. They still don't let the mother, because she's 87. They didn't want to give her a heart attack. Didn't let her know what they wanted. And they were going to go tell her softly. Gently. Gently. They didn't tell her even though they... So they won that. It was so cool. They won three points, seven million. That's fantastic. Family. And the sisters were here. That story alone makes the entire thousand years. Isn't it cool? You know, I got peanuts. I actually lost for the year. It was in so many different contests. But I'm actually luckily enough that I'm up over the years in these contests. But next year I'll be betting. I'll be probably investing less. Just to let you know, that's something I thought.

4:01Yeah, I will. I invested too much again. You know, I invested a lot of money in this. Do you feel like the... The fact that the sort of culture has changed on the contest. I mean, meaning that there was a much bigger influx of folks. Who... And this was, by the way, they figured out a way, or I guess around the rules, even though I don't know if it's around the rules. But there's a bunch of more people who have 50 entries going. It wasn't just one or two people that had that. It was tons of people who had that kind of thing. You can't win doing what I do. That's right. Where I won... I want a half a million dollars in a contest here in town. Using this strategy. And Randy was my partner, actually. Using a strategy where you're betting the antiquated lines that come out on Wednesday and Saturday... This was actually Sunday morning. You could put the picks on this contest. That will get you to winning record, yes.

5:03But it's not going to get you enough to win a contest like the Circle Millions. So it's not going to get you to win enough. There's a... The implication was if this team wins, this team that's given seven will be given 13. And they both won. And that's one of the reasons why he won. It was a correlation. But I want to tell you something. The three losses he had the last two weeks. He went seven and three. We're brutal. We're lost by a total of two combined points. Tampa Bay by half a point. Bill Spills went for a two-point conversion for somebody. That was... If those win...

6:03If those win, he gets a lot more money. People would have been up there with him. Listen, he lost three games. Tampa Bay, Chicago Bears, and there was another one by a total of two combined points. He would have got a lot more money for sure. Let me just clarify. The rules are... Ten entries, right? That's the quote-unquote rule. As long as that was the game, I would come on here and I would say, I don't see necessarily a reason to do ten for me because I'm just sort of... There's a point of redundancy and I would play it the same way and I don't think getting to ten is that much of an advantage. But if you have guys that have 50 now, right? If they're doing it that way, then it does become... Not everybody who has 50 is going to get to the promised land, by the way, that should be stated as well. It's no guarantee that you're going to get there. But if you have enough people that do it, one of them just mathematically is probably likely to get to the promised land. If it wasn't for those people that have 50 and 100 entries in parts of them, they're the prize pool they have.

7:03I'll tell you that's right. So that's the other side of it exactly. So on the other hand, that makes for a $18 million contest, right? I know two teams that had a ton of entries. I don't want to say how much. You know why I don't want to say? Because you won't believe it. You won't believe how many entries this one guy had with two or three partners. They lost six figures and they didn't get anything back. But let's go back to what I was saying. So I go around. It was cool with the people watching. It was great, great press for circa. 3.7 million lower checks, multiple ones. And people were saying, wow, how do you do that? I got to get in this next year. This is like winning mega bucks. It's awesome. It's awesome. Watching them all parade around the casino and one idiot made a comment. I showed you the guy. And only because I want to go back in there and thank people so much for taking their time. To watch us and having the time to comment. You know, that takes their time.

8:03Yes. So I just think that I'm my father's child. You know, like that's what my dad taught me to do. So I like to go in there and say, hey, thanks for watching. Appreciate that comment. Nice thing. Of course, one idiot goes in there and says, I've seen him parading around. You know, this loser. What are you doing right now on a foot fest? Of course, old New Yorker comes right out of me. And I shouldn't do it. Usually I just ignore. I send it to you. You know what I mean? It's amazing. I hide under these names and don't say something when I'm there. You see me in the casino. Yeah. But you don't want to say nothing. But you want to go behind a fake name and say something. The courage of anonymity bill. Yeah. Yeah. So just thinking about that too. But, uh, like I said, you should wake up. You should be happy every day. And, uh, I have to tell you, between the stress of what I do, gambling-wise. And even though I do have an edge and, uh, I do make money every year betting sports. Between that, social media shows. You know, I'm doing over a dozen shows. 13 shows actually during football, during NFL season.

9:03And, uh, I say shows. It's an hour show. I have a foxes three hours. But I do three other four of the shows on Fox clips. And I'm guest on their shows. So promote my show. It's just a lot of, it's a lot more work than I want to do with my age. Not that I'm so old. I feel great. Yeah. You know what I mean? I can't run a marathon. But I can probably do a little, you know, a little sprint. But anyway, I do. I just, uh, every morning I get up and it's just a little bit, it's a lot of stress, believe it or not. And it doesn't have to be because I don't really have to do any of this stuff. Well, you wouldn't have five years ago if I had said to you. Hey, Bill, you know what? You're going to do all this stuff. You'd be like, we're crazy. Yeah. I would have said, yeah, especially like seven years. The one past, but, uh, yeah. Yeah. No way. No way. Kill. Yeah. Oh, I don't even like, but there's no college education here. This is all streets more. It's a common sense. I'm just talking off the cuff, you know, and talking about, I'm, you know, imagine you getting a perspective from a guy that actually bets for a living, you know, on air. So, but I pinch myself still because when I'm on that Fox show nationwide,

10:04500 networks, I think my mom, my mom, it's a bill. You're gonna get in trouble talking about gambling. And you got to stop. Be careful what you say. Like, and now, like mom, if you only knew what's going on now, you know what I mean? You got, you got everyone out there talking. We're in our little, we are again, we're too close to summer. We're in our little bubble. I still, I had like college friends of mine, right? Who not long ago said to me, are you in trouble? I'm like, I'm sorry, what? I'm in trouble. Am I in trouble? Yeah. Oh, because I live here. Oh, no, no, not in trouble. But then we just, we're just, we surround ourselves with people of our ilk. We don't, we don't know that this is the general attitude still for so many. You know, you're, you're right. You're right. And, and I probably, I probably wish I was more, I had more normal friends. Why should we say that? Someone that doesn't bet sports or have the, I wish I had some more normal friends like that. That's all civilian. I wish I had a couple of civilian friends. I wish I had a couple of civilian friends. No, but I mean, I'm just saying like it's just, we are close to the sun.

11:06And it is my, my daily routine of getting up every day. And, you know, looking at the college basketball on the morning compared to the overnight lines. And I, you know, I literally get every one of them over. There's, I still bet for a living, guys. I, this, this is my main source of income. So there's that couple of hours from my partners on the phone. There's other partners. I have to juggle and things. Make sure your apps are financed. Now I'm getting into the media. It's just, it's a lot of things to juggle. And I can't wait for it to be, now, granted. Thank God football is going to be over here. I'm so happy. I am. But yeah, I want to miss it. I like, I will have the same relationship with football. It's like we're thrilled that the hamster wheel part is over. And then five weeks from now, we're going to be like, oh, where's football? That's right. That's right. Bill Crackenberger. The man is grateful for his lovely life. Coming back, unscripted. On a numbers game at Visa, these sports betting network. You're here because you want an edge. That's what separates listeners from winners. But let's be real. Mindset alone doesn't get bets home.

12:06Pros win because they've got the tools, the data and the discipline. And now so can you. Visa programs you access to the same real time insights the sharps use. No secrets. No fluff. Just actionable info that moves markets. Tap the link and see why serious bettors are turning knowledge into profit. With Visa and Pro. A numbers game on Visa. These sports betting network. If you love the moments that make sports betting unforgettable, don't miss the top 10 most memorable sports betting moments of 2025 hosted by our own Tim Murray. Tuesday, January 27th at 1 p.m. Eastern. The biggest swings. The wildest finishes. The most unforgettable tickets. Relive the moments. Betters won't stop talking about from the year 2025. As Tuesday at 1 a.m. Eastern. Only on Feeson. Check that out. I know I will. As well. I think a whole bunch of recent folks are featured in that as well. Giving their takes on all these different events from Shadour falling in the draft.

13:10The Dodgers run to the World Series title and everything in between. We get tweets that being the book Ryan Klaus. Best of luck today. I do think Paulini will win in Straits. Yes. Yovic has grown tremendously the last year but the experience of Paulini is what sets this apart for me. Well, Paulini is the favorite Ryan Klaus. The market feels as you do. Nemo Ryan's voice. I listen to crack and never parlay. But I had a $41 bonus bet. So I let it rip with four plays from yesterday's show plus 762. Richmond loses by one. The agony of defeat. I have no problem with that on a free bet trying to get a lot of return investment. I have no problem with that. He made four college basketball plays based on the show yesterday. And they lost by a point on one of them. This is from BWP by week picks. Hey, don't buy week picks. He says when you remember seven months later, you took the Pats to win the Super Bowl at 68 to one. While visiting Greece along with Homer Brown's pick for good luck. Really? Now I just need someone to interpret the ticket. Oh, he has a ticket from an actual shop in Greece.

14:12Oh, wow. At 68 to one. Wow. He put a picture of the ticket. Is that in, uh, is that in Drachmas or dollars? Three Jag H3131. Bill is right. Always a good reminder that it's a blessing to wake up each day. Tomorrow is not promised. Time stops from no one. Have a great show. Thank you, buddy. And D. Jen Southern Jen says, Gil, I've been listening to your shows since 2017 and they're in alphabetical order Kelly. It's easily top 10 moments in the history of AMG top 10. Really? Look at that. Yeah. It's not top 10. But I appreciate the sentiment nonetheless. That's what started the show today. Um. Well, what else do I got? Well, not what else do you got? What? What about some of you? Of course, you have other stuff. What? What? 46. I really did. I'm knocked off three. We never get to it. That's crazy. And I went through this. I thought I had like five. 40. I knew maybe 10. Anyway, um, now I got more though because my friend just flowing from Newark New Jersey yesterday. He's here. So is just to make it laugh. He goes to the little, you know, a little store that they have in the airport and gets a pack of bread sabers.

15:18Oh, thanks for getting that. By the way. And Aqua can get the bottle of water. He notices a 3% employee benefit and retention retention fee retention fee for 27 cents. Wait, wait. No restitution does it say what to say? Yeah, here you got the phone. I think it's retention. No retention. One percent retention. Yeah. So the heck does that mean? Employee benefit. I'm trying to think. Why does the customer have to pay for the benefits for the employee? Now, I'm all for tipping at restaurants and tipping account. I just can't believe that these places are not charging 3% employee. Do you believe that? That's at the airport. Absolute nerve of that. Wow. Pay your employees more. Stop passing on the customer. How the stuff happened? I mean, so now, and then they get mad at you if you don't, if you don't tip properly. Like, it comes in and he's staying at Fountain Blu, which by the way, I went there. The place is so nice. Let me tell you, I know it's very slow and they, they thought people were just going to show up like they show up in Miami.

16:20Yeah. And it's not, not going to happen like that. It the place is really slow, but it's beautiful inside. And I told you, Mother Wolf, I like that. Like a couple restaurants there. Mother Wolf is great. The food court. There's a pizza place in the food court there. It's really good. Miami slice. Excellent. Food court is upstairs upstairs. Yeah. And I just seen some shows there. I've seen heart there. They were great. And I've seen someone else there. I've seen two different shows there. Fantastic. Oh, Durand Iran. The Durand Iran set list that they sung was so good. It was Durand, Durand here. Two weeks ago. Really? He was so good. Simon Leban. I thought they were much older by the way. They're not. I thought they were like 75, 77. No, they're 66. Like, you know, they were so good. I knew every song. And they mixed in some other songs like some talking head songs with their song. It was really, really good. And he was great because I know when he was here a couple of previous times, he had some weird, one of your Christmas time you've seen him or, you see him over here. There was a Halloween. I mean, that's it. Halloween show, which was at the win on core, I believe.

17:22Don't hold me to that. But it was somewhere on the strip. Maybe it wasn't the win on core. But anyway, they tried to do something strange and they didn't play their hits. They just made it about Halloween. And it was like, you left your life. This was terrible. Oh, no. I seen Prince like that once. It was hard rock. I was like, what are we doing? I went to that hard rock show. Yeah, what are we doing there? He played like a little pieces of his, he's just trying to be artistic and, you know, there's a random, random thing I may have told the story before when I was in San Francisco when I worked, I worked at a radio station that was bought, bought, bought again, bought again. I think we ended up in this clear channel conglomerate where there's like seven different stations, seven different formats in one building. Right. And so every station, whether you're at R&B station, a hip hop station, a adult contemporary station, whatever the formats were called at the time, a classic rock artists would come in every day for those respective radio stations. Those artists that ever came in at any of those radio stations, regardless of format, ever had the reaction of late 40s, early 50s, Durand Durand, where every, every white woman

18:27in the Bay Area showed up outside the clear channel doors. It was mayhem. Wow. They love those guys. There was a guy in front of us that had a shirt on from 1984, they wait a minute, hold on. Has Durand Durand been around? I said, I didn't realize that they were, they've been around like 50 years. Oh, yeah. I didn't know that. Well, 40, 40 years. Yeah. 1984. Yeah. Durand Durand were all the concert dates when my 84 was like, oh, my God, they're huge global superstars. Yeah. They really were. And that night that I went and seen them, they shocked me how good they were. They were unbelievable. And you know, it's funny how they first started out. They come up and they stand there, the original members, like that's unusual for a band. They have four original members that were that are still still still playing. So anyway, I'm not fun them. The egos didn't get in the way. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So that still remains the best part about living in Vegas. That's right. Accessibility. Great. Great. Great concerts. And so you know, it's important to people when they fly into town having a good bed is important. So picking a property with a good bed.

19:28So my buddy gets rooms and any casino, really anywhere he can get casinos. He's a, I'm sorry about this, but he's a degenerate gambler show. He could play anywhere. He's listening. So he's right standing outside. He can get rooms at any casino. Yeah. And he prefers fountain blue and the wind. That's the best beds in town. So that's what he said. Best beds. The best beds. The most comfortable beds. The wind on core beds. Yeah. You can purchase them. Yes. Not the ones you've actually slept in. No. But brand new ones. Yeah. So I have the pillows. I went to the store and bought the pillow. The pillows are unbelievable. It's like, it's like sleeping on a cloud. It is. You could. It's a beautiful thing. You could just punch it in a former lake right right in the center of the shape of your head. I have not stayed at the fountain blue though. But anyway. That's weird. Now I just talked nice about fountain blue out. I'll tell you what they do here. I'm showing you fountain blue offer match promotion. This is a really cool thing that you think, right? So you click on it. Talk to a host. He said, here, I get a thousand a week from this place. I'll show you my offer. And think I says, I give you 500. Well, then don't say, you see it right there.

20:32That's on their site. Fountain blue doesn't say it's a ghost. Offer match. Offer match and big bold letters. That's right. Yeah. We'll give you 500. See how you play. Like that's so. I just it's just so bad. Like don't make that offer. That's terrible. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, you can talk about good things and bad things about everyone, every company I mean. So that's kind of kind of interesting. The public. Yes. Public just seems to amaze me and they shouldn't. There was a guy here. This guy interviewed me. He works here now. That's funny. He interviewed me in Jersey for the first time at Scott Sidenberg. Scott Sidenberg works here at Visa. He works here at Visa. I'm sorry. Scott, I know. Yeah. I think I did a show with him at nighttime here one time, I believe. But for some reason, I thought he left anyway. So this guy came back. Oh, he's back. Okay. Made the move. Good man. He put up something. It's alarming. How many people don't understand this tweet? I'm trying to educate the average sports better.

21:33Doesn't think about how bad a bet is. They just go off results. True. Teasing is unnecessary risk when the math doesn't add up. Why risk more for two wins when you just need one? This was about the betting expert on national TV recommends a six point teaser with Indiana and the month in the total minus 135. So tease the total. Now, he says, first off, teasing college football is hilarious. Second, at 135, he's like, your teaser is minus 310. If you like Indiana to win, but you're afraid of the points, just bet the Indian and the Indian money line. Money line. Now, it won. And that's the problem. That's the problem. That's right. And everyone said, uh, uh, uh, it won, it won, it won, like everyone said, well, but it won. The sample size of one proves them right. Yeah. Yes. Like, like, Scotch right, but he's trying to help people about teasing and you're going to tease the total in a car. I don't even see the size. We had some listeners. I was tagged on it that sent you and, and, and, and, and, and, and, like, I know this

22:33is wrong. Yeah. Oh, God. Yeah. It's just long term. You understand that teasers have, have went up, you know, 200 percent in price. Teasers used to be even money. I had seven or eight shops that were even money, six point teasers back in 2000. Now you can't get under a dollar 30 in this town. You cannot beat teasers at a dollar 30, dollar 40, and a dollar 50 pricing. And this place is in this town. It's hard to dollar 60 for a seven point teaser. You cannot beat it with the best info in the world. If you think you have it, I'll, I'll actually give the guy a little bit of credit. You can tease maybe a national championship game that line is such an efficient line. But you can't tease totals, even though it won. Caesars minus 125 on, uh, teasers, I believe. I don't know. It's for me out. Lowest in town. I am told coming back on a numbers game right here at V.C. The number one place for college basketball player props, they offer all players at all schools

23:41at every state. Profit X is available. As we get closer to March, Matt, is taking advantage of profit X is 20%. Purchase match, download profit X now and experience the future of winning. Use promo code V sin to get started. Alexander Bill Crackenberger in studio, Kelly's behind the glass at Bill Crackman with a kale on Twitter. Wise cracks the name of the podcast, which he does with John Orlando, Randy McKay still doing it. Yeah, football. Yeah. Yeah. Nice football season. He won maybe like seven eight units for the year. I know, right? No big deal. Like seven eight units. I could do that after juice. I'll take three to five games a week. NFL every week. Yeah. Usually three games a week. He was given out. Let's see. He's against me on a game this week. Not that I use it on both sides. What is Bill Crackenberger on? Well, I bet here at circle, actually, when the line first came out, I bet the Rams plus three and Randy's on minus two and a half. He likes, he likes Seattle. Yeah. Other side. But you didn't touch the Denver game? No. I tell you, I missed it. And, you know, again, I don't do a lot of sides, but I would have taken that six.

24:44I thought it was going. There was six. I was right there at the screen when the lines were coming up. There was six at like six, seven different joints. Really? Oh, yeah. I took the five and a half. I didn't see it. And I said, it was there. I even called a buddy of mine who I do respect. And he said, the public's going to be funny here. If they think Nick's is that big and it could go higher, but I should, I would have grabbed this. I didn't bet it. I should have grabbed that six, though. I think. And it may go a little bit higher towards the game, Tom. I don't think we're going to reach six again, but someone did make the point, which I think is a good sort of distillation into one sense, which is everybody always talking about how they don't think Bo Nick's is any good. But then the second he gets hurt, we go to Jared, instead of all of a sudden, it's like cataclysmic, you know, change in line, which I think everybody kind of agrees. Most people agree. Is too much of an adjustment. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. I think I think stood him. Maybe okay here. I may want to look at some of his passing props. I mean, I may have to go with him on the game, but just because that's where I'm going to be betting mostly anyway. It's going to be the prop market.

25:47Living in Vegas, you do have the advantage of having a lot of different sportsbooks that have some different lines. You know, the win I talked about it the other day, the win is a great sports book to have. You should have their app, even if you come in town just for a couple days, you have to have the win stations, boy, you have to you should have their apps. If you're planning to be here for, you know, over a weekend or something, you want those extra half a points, even though I don't plan a couple of them. I know I don't plan it because they threw me off or winning, but I do know that they're very good apps to have the win. I'm a lot to play for sure. The win is that someone was in there this weekend firing from the casino at the sportsbook and he lost. I'll tell you why I know that I wasn't even there and the one I didn't talk to Doug of there and nothing. They were off a full point on their half time line. Their game line there were off. They had a 50 on the total. When everyone had 48 and a half on one of the games, I forget that there was 50 on that

26:50game. And then there was a, that might have been the previous week though, but this week they had another one where they had, they had like a point off to a half points of a point on the game. Then the half time, they obviously didn't get enough money on it. They hung a half time line up. That was a pure scalp. You could have taken the one and laid the one and taken a $1.17. It was like pretty, pretty bad. Yeah. But that wasn't the right thing to do. The right thing to do, the right thing to do is long term, just bet the bad line and just let it bake in and sit there. Don't middle and scalp. I made that giant mistake in the 90s when I started. I was betting and basically let me break it down to what I was doing. I was middling the games, basically just handing pinnacle the money because I was betting pinnacle, you know, minus one oh five or one oh three or one oh six, whatever, it depends

27:50on the different sport. And I was betting the local guys and I was scalping the games and basically giving pinnacle the money. Basically, it's just putting it in my pocket long term. The right thing that probably do back then, because I didn't have the bankroll though, it was to bet like a thousand bucks one way and five hundred the other way. Instead, I was betting like nine hundred the other way. I was literally giving them, giving them the money. So it's amazing. I can go off. It worked out for you. It worked out for me. I am where I am now, but I'm going to have a lot more money. Yeah. Story time. Please. Usually don't do story time for place. I saved a lot of these stories. That's part of my 43 left here. But I was there last last week. Why? I'm trying to think. Probably Scott over there at Samstown, Scott who runs spank odds. I met Scott over nice, nice guy. I met him over at Samstown and I parked there and was walking to the restaurant we're going to meet and I didn't know where we're going all the way in the back of the place.

28:53I forgot how cool Samstown is. I don't go over on Boulder Highway that often for many obvious reasons, just make sure the sun's up. If you go, you don't want to go after sundown, it's like the okay corral on or something. It's like, anyway, I've never been inside of there, by the way. Okay. Well, you're not missing too much of the whole highway there, but yeah, you've never been in a Thai Samstown. You will be shocked. You go in there and it's just, it's still the old, it's a gambling joint. It's a real gambling joint, big sports book, crap tables, big pit, the old bank where it looks like a bank and it's their cage cashier, but the real secret spot there and it's not too secret is going to that mystic falls. It's a giant, giant area where their restaurants are and there's all different lit trees and waterfalls and little fake animals making noises and it's giant. It's not little. It's big. And then you go to that big mountain they have there. They have a show every two hours, it's like a laser show, really cool.

29:53But as I'm walking through there and I realized how cool Samstown was, my first time coming in the Vegas was with a pool player, a pretty famous pool player and this is back in like 91 or something anyway, and we went there and that's how I knew Samstown locals took us there. I wasn't living here at the time, but it reminded me of something. So I went in there back then, got a card and there were very generous with comps and rooms and stuff. And I had my buddy who's passed away now, my buddy, Glenn, he came out with me. I said, Glenn, we're going to stay at Samstown this trip. He's like, oh, whatever you say, you know, so we went to Samstown. They had a hundred time odds at the dice table. Now the reason why I wanted to stay is because they had a rebate loss, the company, and they had a hundred time odds, which is a minuscule, minuscule house edge, nothing. They would give you all the food and give you everything. You bet $5 in the past line and give up up to $500 behind. Now I wasn't betting up to 500. Usually it's like at the most five times.

30:54Five times? Yeah. I think they have 10 times. Now, I don't think anyone on the strip has 10 times so downtown they may have that mainstream station. They may have that. But so I remember going to up to this dice table, buying in and as I'm as a me and Glander there and Glander was shot dice. He was he was shooting. He was a little intimidated, but he was happy. Gwen's a big guy, like six foot free, big burly guy and he's shooting dice doesn't know. I remember he was his first time shooting. He had no idea. He's too strong. You know what I mean? Like I said, Glander, you never feed you never fed chickens or anything? No, sorry. Not for the east side. You get through the east side in New York. I never fed no chickens. All right. So listen to this. Two guys come up to the table with $100,000 and I was like, wow, what the hell? And I knew the war was held. Yeah. Dole Bronson and Chipperys. Oh, there you go. So dole Bronson Chipperys come up and they're they're betting, you know, they're betting 50 and 100 through the max bet behind was 10,000.

31:54But think they were a lot to bet. Oh, the max was five. They were a lot to bet 10. I remember seeing that. They were betting $100,000 with 10,000 odds and they're playing. And I knew who dole was did not know what chip was a new and dole was and it was a great story. It's a great story here because you're not going to be what happened here. So there was a guy that came behind the table, a little Asian guy standing there watching the dice, watching and dole yells at him. Oh, no. He says, yeah, you got to be a guy, you're an eyeball, they called him an eye, that's why I got to name my baller from, by the way, he's called him an eyeballer. Like, I don't think any eyeballers on me, pal. My friend Glenn got so nervous. He got so nervous. He left the table. I'm like, well, what do you must want that a bathroom or something? He's gone for a while and sure enough, Glenn went back to his room. He couldn't handle the conflict. He couldn't handle the, he was so nervous that this guy's betting so much money and he has to play for him. Oh. He has to shoot the dice. Instead of passing the dice, he decided just to leave the table.

32:57He left and went, you know, I understand that the point of the story is he's a big, burly guy. Yeah. Bigger than me is like six three burly guy, but didn't have, didn't have the gamble in him that you know, he didn't know. He didn't know. He, first I'm playing dice. Yeah. He was, he was okay until the until dole yelled at the guy for being an eye baller. That's why I figured it triggered the tension. It was that. Yeah. So this is amazing how this story ends. So when it all ends in the end, I tell buddy of mine, he said that chip and doil at the table, the doil was at the table, not even chip. And don't you know, I wind up working for them. I never talk about this really, but I wind up working for them. The story goes to back to Merdle Beach, goes to Augusta, Georgia, the guy from Augusta, Benny still alive. Benny's like 80, Benny wants up Colin Doyle, given him my number, we talked and I wind up moving their baseball totals. Yeah, they were great. They were great. They were great. What year was this? Yeah. Well, the baseball totals were like 2000. How did it work out on the table? They win their money.

33:57They lost. They lost. Yeah. That was a losing session, but just a great story. Now I want to work for the guy who was 10 feet away from years later, but it just what happens that, you know, I talked to him about that story. I was going to say he knew you. Yeah. No, he didn't know me then. Now we know. And now he knew me well up until he passed away, of course. Don't we know? Yeah. It's a. It's a interesting story about the big burly guy not having the gamble and ran to the table, ran to the room. Hotel room. Stop eyeballing me. Coming back with a crack man. A numbers game on FESEN, the sports betting network. A, after the show I am doing the mega pod today with Will Hill Todd, which, of course, Doctor Bob, our guest for the championship games. So if you want to get the full Doctor Bob analysis of each of the conference championship games, AFC and NFC that you are used to getting for college football on Fridays and for the NFL, when he would bring up NFL games on the show, the mega pod is

35:01the place to be. We will put that out live on Twitter at 2 p.m. Eastern 11 a.m. Pacific. And of course, there will be a podcast podcast for him after this. And then right after this show on Veson, prop points with John Hanson today on the show. Once again, we mentioned this earlier, but, uh, John's got Brian Hoyer on prop points day at 1 30 p.m. Eastern, uh, one time teammate of Jared Stittems. So there you go, prop points with John Hanson. They must listen to after this show today. So Gill, I wonder, explain a little bit more. Sometimes I have that problem when I don't explain things to the people automatically know. So that was late 90s, that story with Chip and Doyle at the craft table. And, um, it happened a couple of years later, though, it's just amazing how it ran the full circle. Like I'm right there with them. And I live right in the same town as Chip and Doyle. And yet it had to go to a Myrtle Beach to Augusta, Georgia from someone from Augusta calling me, put me on a call with, with Doyle and me meeting Doyle and, yeah, and so it's just amazing. Uh, and by the way, whatever program they had, I think it was chip, I think it was chips

36:05nephew, um, whatever program they had, they destroyed baseball totals. I'll never forget this for a year and a half and stopped playing. Why? I don't know. I never stopped. I never really asked. I didn't want to, you know, one thing you do, that it's amazing that people, this is a shocking thing in life. I, my own person, I never question an originator on anything. Whatever you say is law, and I'm the best loser there is. I know in the end, we're going to make money. It's amazing when someone questions an originator. So I, I never asked why I would just pulled up and that was the end of it. And, um, I know some guys that question originators now. I think I told you about this recently. I had a prop, um, I'm betting in my, my friend's account, my friend has an account in town here. And I was like, listen, you should bet these, these, these, these, and he's like, I have no money to bet. I told you, I put the money up for him and I'm putting the money up and giving him a free roll.

37:06I have five thousand up, whatever we win, you'll get 20% and give you. And I went to go bet a prop and he said to me, I don't like that one. I like the other way. I told you that. Yeah. That's just, how do you question anyone that that, that's, you know, winning veterans or I, I would never question an originator or, or say anything to someone that's originating something and, and saying, I don't like that one or, uh, who am I, you know, the baseball totals thing is interesting where you say they just stop playing. Yeah. I always love those stories from back in the day because, you know, here we are, 25 and, you know, everything is, you know, the market is a, it comes like, let's say the NFL, right? It's super efficient. But back in the day, when things were more primitive, Roxy, our buddy, Roxy, Roxboro, he was, everybody knows him as the founder of Las Vegas sports consultants. But if I have the story right, right before he was ever on that side of the counter or in the case of Las Vegas sports consultants, setting line for Las Vegas, he was a better, right? He was a baseball better primarily. Well, I probably didn't know that. Oh, yeah. I know he bets now. Was the first dude, he, he may dispute me on this, but I believe this is correct by

38:10and large. If he's not the first dude, he's one of the first is, but I think he was the first guy to ever sort of figure out that baseball ball parks played differently based on environmental conditions. Okay. And so he, he was able to crush baseball totals because he figured that out before even the books kind of did. Those, those stories are amazing. I love stuff like that because we take all that stuff for granted. Right? Yeah. Today, but it's like at some, at one day, somebody had to figure that out and it's often not the book maker who does. You know, I want to tell you, I had to look up the word to make sure I was using the right word and I am anyone that has bet what a partnership, that's a winning partnership or a winning, well, I'll tell you why, even though you don't have to be a partnership, whenever there's a, a win that goes on for more than a week or two or even a week or even two weeks, there's always some kind of dissension in the troops. What I mean by that is, it's weird.

39:10People that are helping move or movers or agents or sub agents are back in the day. I'm sure it's still the same now. There was always problems when you won. Yeah. Like, people got jealous and like, oh, listen, dissension in the troops when you win. Let's bring this back full circle to Durand Durand. Okay. This is the brilliance of Bill Krakenbergs, we can bring it back to Durand Durand. So you said Durand Durand is one of these groups that stayed together. Most of these groups though, 90% of the time, that's my number. I don't know if it's correct, but just feels like that. These groups that have any kind of success at some point for financial reasons, jealousies, whatever, they break out. Daryl Hall and John Oates are doing it now, right? They hate each other, hate each other. The Beatles obviously, the being the biggest example of all this back in the day, but you name the group. It's happened, right? Yeah. You're Satara. They won't even like, I want you to change the key of all these things. The horn players are like, eat me. I'm doing it our way. We were here before you were like, we had hits before you were singing. That's right. There's jealousies, right?

40:11So with that, with the betting syndicates, I hope he doesn't mind me bringing this up on our buddy, Rufus. Rufus is going to be the, is going to be the guest on the, the Super Bowl makeup pod in a couple of weeks. Rufus takes me the other day and Rufus is a great example of this. He, before he was doing his thing now, which he does with his brother, right? He was with his group of four, him and his three buddies. Rufus was the guy on the computer, the brains behind the operation, right? He's the guy running the numbers. And then he had partners that put the bets in, right? Yeah. Rufus didn't want any part of that. Those guys viewed themselves and correctly so, right? As key cogs in the wheel of a syndicate, right? Not everybody does every job. And ultimately, like a rock band, right, they had to come to some decisions about who was really the top dog, that's my word, not theirs, right? But who was really most responsible for the success? Obviously, there was success to go around. But yeah, anything of success, whether it's music sports or whatever, it's like a reflection

41:13of the condition of. You know, you go back to the bands who you're right, but like, like, I love Pink Floyd. Right. I cannot believe that David Gilmore and Roger Waters couldn't work something out where they got back together and toured again for, you know, the last 25, third more, 40 years. Like they got together for one big show. I remember it was for charity, live eight, I think it was. But you're right. There's always that the ego's getting the way or something gets in the way. Yeah. Human beings. Yeah. No, it's so, it's so true. And I just thought about that. And I wanted to make sure I explained more of that story. It's you're nothing without me. You're nothing without me. You know, it's like everybody's got their, their viewpoint on it. Yeah. And the truth always lies somewhere in between. Where do you go like this weekend to watch the games? Well, typically I will go, you know, if it's non-football, I'll go to San Francisco, but here I'm staying in town. I will because I do guessing lines. I got in the habit, right, because the entire regular season I do a Monday morning show where I'm going through every game in detail. So I have gotten into the habit of just being by myself in my apartment watching because I want to hear the announcers, you know, viewpoints and where they mess up.

42:17I want to hear every little detail so that I can come back on the show and do it. Yeah. I was, I was hanging out with John a couple of time. John Orlando, my co-host, I went with his group of guys and, and it's in the sports books very, I'll be home this weekend. It's, it's very tough to, to, to be in a sports book with a bunch of, nothing against them. My friends were great. Everything was great, but it's just tough to, to hear anything going on. And even, you know, it is, but now yet super ball. I'm going, I'm going to go, I'm going to go, I have some people coming in town. I'm interviewing, buddy of mine, who was great undercover pool player, billiards player. He would go from tournament to tournament to the big tournaments, they had giant tournaments all over the United States, mostly East Coast and the big names and pool, the giant, the biggest names ever. Steve Mizorowski. Steve, Steve Mizorak and I were actually, that was my, that was my, I was, I was friends with Steve. My dad, my dad was friends with his dad, they had a pool hall in Perth, Amboy, New Jersey. Steve was a school teacher.

43:17People don't realize that. And I got to be friends with Steve and generation, new him from the, from the light beer from Miller commercials. Yes. Yes. Light beer from Miller. Even when you just show it off, even when you just, that's exactly what I was old enough for this. I was really young. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, but this guy would come into those tournaments and he would have the winner of the tournament that just won 25,000 or ever it was, he would have him, uh, spot on some, and play him for a couple thousand bucks and lots of times he beat him for the entire prize money. So this guy was an undercover guy. He's, he's much more well known now. So he's coming in for Super Bowl. So I'm going to take him out. I'm going to put him on my, my podcast. I'm going to take him out. But he's got great stories of, of pool and hustling. Where are you going to watch? Is it real? Where? Westgate. Westgate. Yeah. I'm going to be at the Westgate. So for all the guys that want, you know, the haters and stuff. That's where I'll be. And you get to say something to my face. That's right. That's right. So anyway, I'm going to be at Westgate and I'm going to ask you, where will you be Super Bowl?

44:18Where are you going? Where's your plans? Uh, we are doing a show Kelly and I as per tradition, a lot of, not just us, but, uh, all the visa and shows have time slots on Super Bowl Sunday. Nice. Kelly and I, I think I believe are doing a morning show for a couple of hours on Super Bowl Sunday. So I always do that. Where I end up though. Same answer. I'll usually end up just by myself. You're kidding me. Yeah. Absolutely. Wow. For like five years, don't hold me that might have been four years. But for most of the existence of Veecin, I did the Super Bowl. Okay. Right. I was in studio and I really didn't get to enjoy it. So now I'm super, you know, focused on it. Yeah. I just want to be by myself watching. Okay. Yeah. You. Yeah. I'm like 80 percent. I'll be at Westgate. Okay. That's my plan. Maybe he's throwing it at people up. Prop points. That's what I'll be. Prop points with John Hansen is next. Again. Bobby Hoyer on the show today as well. Former teammate of Jared Stintham. Enjoy from Veecin. Veece sports betting network. Thank you, Bill.