9AM: Here Comes Hargrave!

0:00Three-time Wisconsin sports writer of the year, Jason Wilde. Aren't any Jason's, 1200? That's a dead name. Packers, Hall of Famer, Mark Towsher. How many kids do you hear? Hey, Marky, it might be as almost to the point of Ruth. Broadcasting live from the Everlight Solar Studio. You love that name so much, you don't even go by it. On 100.5 ESPN. If you call me Mark, I'm fine, I like my name. I like my name a lot. The ESPN Wisconsin app will be in Tosh. And ESPN medicine on YouTube. It's Wilde and Touch, isn't it? This is Wilde and Tosh, presented by Pello Windows and Doors of Wisconsin. It is the Thursday edition.

1:25The, who are you and what have you done with Brian Guterkin's edition? The, is there a more obvious logical no-brainer signing that has occurred during this free agent period than Javan Hargrave to the Packers edition? On the Gave Nights sold, what are you doing here? Addition. I will be at Tosh, a 94.5 ESPN walk in 100.5 ESPN medicine, 14.30 ESPN Beaver Dam. ESPNWisconsin.com, the ESPN app, your Alexa smart speaker, streaming live video, Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, and of course everything you need. On the ESPN Wisconsin app, which is so good.

2:25And which you can find both in the Android and Apple app stores. I'm Jason Wolde and Green Bay. Jesse Nelson is in the Everlight Solar ESPN medicine studios. The straw that stirs our drink, which usually is infused with teetos when it comes to this guy. Our Towsher is on his way to the Big Ten tournaments. So we do not have him today and I would like to just take this opportunity because it's always an opportunity for me to brag and say that when Evan Cohen and Craig Carmesen came to me in 2015 and asked me if I could do a show with anybody in the world who would I pick. And I said, Mark Towsher, I was right. We are a much better show when he is with us, but we've got a deep bench, man. We got blogger. We got John Anderson and we've got this guy, our cousin sub of the day.

3:27You hear him not only on Gen Gabe and Chewie and GKBW or whatever you call that wrestling program that I don't watch. Yeah, that's coming up later today, six o'clock, stay tuned to the ESPN Milwaukee ESPN Madison social media channels as we're getting closer and closer to WrestleMania, GKW with myself, Gabe Neitzel, Jonathan Hood and Brian Roberts. Uh-huh. Yes, I was just thinking gosh, we've got to be close to WrestleMania, which I haven't which I haven't seen since Hulk Hogan body slammed Andre the giant of the Pontiac Silver Dome. What was that? WrestleMania three. Uh-uh. WrestleMania three. Yeah. Three years ago, Jason. You could all shut up. You could also hear this guy constantly on ESPN radio nationally. I even get invited to be on his show once in a while when he's on there. Our cousin sub of the day, cousin subs, we believe in better from some sort of anti-room

4:30adjacent to the Gruber offices, one call that's all studios at the Avenue in the third street market hall in Milwaukee. It is Gabe Neitzel. Gabe Reel. Hello. Uh-uh. So a couple of different things. A, for those watching on the YouTube stream, I have enjoyed the plethora of Milwaukee Brewers hats that you have been wearing. You know, different ones. This one's a little bit more, I would say traditional would probably be, you know, just the 82 Brewers hat you got on today. And number two, because I can't see you on video, you, you trying to join the club here? You growing out of beard? Growing out a little facial hair there? What's going on, man? No. So Paula and the girls are in Florida. They do an annual trip without me. I stay with the cats and dogs and hamsters and fish with the zoo, yep, sure. Yeah. Which, again, I, I, I don't want that to sound like I, I have FOMO because I absolutely don't. They go to the beach every day. They love it. It's, Paula takes this kind of harsh, preventative cancer drug after she had breast cancer in 2020.

5:38And it really messes up her joint. She was a elite gymnast, which how someone that athletic married me. You can ask all you want. How that doesn't make sense. That's good on you, Jen. That's good on you. Yeah. Thank you. I'll kick to my coverage. I've heard that many, many times over the last 20 years. But when she's in warm weather, it really helps her joints. So they go, you know, the girls are missing a bunch of school because, you know, who cares about school? Uh, so they're gone for like a week and, uh, so since they're gone and since the amazing people at news three now, channel three, W I S C in Madison, don't seem to really mind if I'm clean shaven or not to be on television, I've been rolling with this, uh, but I do think I've been a shave today. That, that, that is my intention. We'll see if I get that. You got to keep it going. You got to see what happens here, man. No, no. It goes. Now, look, all right. So we've got to, I don't know if you know this, but there's a lot of packer stuff to get to. Uh, plus there is. Yep.

6:38We talked about it on Jen gave it to you. We did. And I talked about it with strofe while we were recording monthly, will these is what we do in the off season. Uh, and we've got, uh, Kayla Carious, the horizon league coach of the year, uh, scheduled to appear at 1115 to talk a little UWGB and Dan and brother town, um, but you know this. I don't know how long ago this was. You and I have been teammates and friends for a very long time. I don't know how long ago it was that you like went fully committed to the beard. And I know there was a point where I was starting to think, oh my god, he's joining a ZZ top cover band. It's getting so long. But at some point you went from clean shaven, handsome young Gabe and your wife, my understanding really prefers you as with a beard. Yes. Yeah. Yes. So in the reason why it gets longer and longer now, I used to keep it, you know, um, pretty,

7:44I would shave it and not completely shave it off, but it would be a lot tighter. And a few years ago, I went to Scotland and I was there for a week. However, my luggage got lost and it didn't eventually reappeared 35 days later at my front steps through in Milwaukee. I remember this, um, but, but because I was going to be in Scotland for a week. So I took my beard trimmer there because I was, you know, you're going to kind of keep it clean while I was there. And then over those 35 days, I was hopeful that everything would return. So I really just started to let it grow. And then the first time I had shaved it kind of a little bit tighter, my wife said, you know, you can, you can keep that a little bit longer if you want. So she's the one who encourages the longer beard and, and what we have today. So at some point, though, you went through the itchy scratchy, uncomfortable phase of a beard. I, I can't get past it. Like a few years ago, I did no shave November or MoVember, you know, for men's health

8:45and everything else. And I got, I got, you know, not quite the dare I say porn stash level, but I just grew the mustache and, and it looked terrible and be like, it just irritated me. So I, this is, this is about a week and change. That's about as far as I can go. And the other problem as I don't think you can see this on the video, but there's a lot of gray. And so it, it almost looks like I've got like a goatee because it's dark there, but that it's gray elsewhere. It's like the Mike McCartney beard. If I stuck with it, I look a lot like coach Mike. So it, it'll be gone sooner rather than later. I, I gotta tell you, because last year, and I'll be doing this again. So stay tuned for, for all the different wackies, any things we'll do on KBN when I joined them. I'm raising money once again, along with Steven Watson and Greg Matsik for the, for the Mac fund and the ringer event that they have every year.

9:47So we're going to come up with a lot of fun stuff, you know, to do for that. And, you know, this is resulted in over the years, you know, Ben Brost getting slapped in the face. It's resulted in Josh, the Maggio getting Josh, the Maggio getting a tattoo of Homer. And it resulted in me shaving my beard last year because we raised enough money. And when I had shaved off the beard completely, it'd been the first time in a decade. I was like, completely clean, shaving. And I did not like how cold my face got that was that was kind of a yet, well, because it happened in when we do that in April, yeah, it was a bad April last year. It was a, it was a chilly April. So like the first day I went outside without the beard and just got punched in the face with the cold. That was, that was not fun. Jesse, have you ever grown a beard? Uh, what a legit beard. What I have is the most I've ever grown. Uh, no, I can confidently say I've never grown a grizzly beard like old lumberjack gable over there. Are you in trees? Would you be willing for, for games? What if we did a reverse game?

10:49What if our contribution was, oh, okay. We grew beards, uh, who would last longer, me or Jesse? Probably Jesse. I think he's got more determination than I do. Yeah, I mean, it seems like if you're giving up after a week, I got, I got, I got more faith in Jesse that he would keep that thing going. I could make it a while. Yeah, there's no doubt about it. I tell you what, I'll do pretty much anything you want once you get out and try to golf that 200 challenge that Towsha's been trying to get you to do for almost a decade now, Jason. Yeah, right after you do that 300 challenge on the bowling. We're actually going to do that one. Uh, huh. We'll see. Uh, I'm, I'm, I'm looking forward to all those things. I'm looking forward to the ringer and you obviously do great work for the folks at the Mac fund. You do great work on the radio, um, and we spent some time this morning and we'll get to this coming up because I'm going to prove to Mark Towsha as he travels to Chicago, uh, that we could stay on the clock more effectively when, uh, I'm, I'm with a national radio host

11:53and not with, uh, a stream of consciousness genius that he is, um, but we did talk about the Packers and, and the Javan Hargrave trade will get, or pick up, we'll get into that coming up. I just want to ask you this, do you think that Brian Guterkins is okay? Like do you think that he may have fallen and hit his head or is there a concern about his well-being because they have now, uh, added not one, but two 30 plus outside additions. And by the way, our guy Benjamin St. Juice, as I believe 29, Paul, so, and it's worth, it's worth pointing out the restructure that they did with Aaron Banks. That's probably going to keep him in Green Bay past his 30th birthday. Yeah. Yeah. Cause he's turning 29 on September 3rd. Mm hmm. Who are you and what have you done with Goody?

12:55Like twice if you're in Milwaukee, like I mean, do we have to send somebody over? Do you have to drive over there and start wandering the halls of Lambo Field to see if you can find Brian Guterkins? Well, now that Mark Murphy's not, uh, roaming those halls and avoiding me, and then I suppose I could, um, I, in all seriousness, and, and you and I talked about this, this morning on your show, I do not want to be a hypocrite and I don't want to be too faced, um, but I'm torn on this because I also am leery whenever someone starts doing things they don't normally do, right? And when Goody talked to us in early February when he finally spoke after the season and I asked him that infamous line of demarcation question and he said, there is no line of demarcation, um, and obviously there was, right? There was. The kicker and your long snapper were the only two people on your team that it celebrated

13:59the 30th birthday. Now suddenly when he's doing this, I want to give him credit for being willing to adjust, but it also makes me wonder about doing something that goes against your philosophy, right? Like Gabe, I'm not, I'm, this is what I suggested they needed to do. Maybe I'm just so shocked that anyone would listen to me. And I don't, by the way, I don't think he listened to me. I do not think he's doing this. Hey, you know, will they made a good point? So you don't think we do. So you don't think that he didn't realize that there was a line of demarcation that went back with the Russian and went, Chase, it's right. We got to get some older guys on you didn't think that happened because I'm willing to give you credit. Little interesting. I will give it to you. Yeah. You opened his eyes at that press conference. Yeah. No, I don't think somewhere on like, on Goody's phone, he has his version of what you guys play when Chewy gets something, right? Oh my God. Willdy was right.

14:59Willdy was right. No, I don't think he's, I am not that arrogant to think that I influenced it, but I, but my point Gabe is when someone starts doing something that you feel like they were vehemently opposed to. It does make me wonder because, you know, Towsh always says, if you make exceptions, sooner later you end up with a team full of exceptions, right? And they've made an exception with Zaire Franklin and they've made a big time exemption or alteration to their philosophy with Javan Hargrave, even though he makes perfect sense which we'll get into coming up. I think what I guess this is my hope is that Goody realized maybe he needed a change just a little bit. Again, not that you need a roster full of guys who are over their age 30 season. I think that's something that you have pointed out, hey, you just need a couple of these guys. When you have a loss like they did against the Bears, it's not all on one guy, right?

16:00It's so many things went wrong in that playoff game in Chicago for them to lose that game. There's plenty of blame to go around. And what I'm hoping is when they got together, they did these extensions, you have a new leader in ed policy that maybe the communication is just better between Brian Gutecune, stand his head coach and Matt LaFour because LaFour has kind of hinted at Jason over the last few years that he wouldn't mind having a couple of veterans in that locker room. And now that you have, it's also worth noting, I think that you have these guys that are Jonathan A. Jonathan Ganon guys inside of Franklin and Jonathan Hargrave, like that's worth pointing out because that's going to help the transition, having veterans that know what Jonathan Ganon is looking for on defense. Those guys are going to be able to help the transition on the defensive side of the football. But I think he's realizing, hey, we do need some of those veteran guys that when the young guys are going through some of these lessons, it's nice to have the veterans that can help lead them through in these games. It's something again that LaFour has talked about. And again, you're not going to, I don't think you're going to go inside a bunch more now

17:02in free agency. But I think he's realizing, hey, we have been the seven seed the last three years. Here one, it was great because we weren't really expecting to make the playoffs. Year two, little disappointing, year three, a lot more disappointing even when you factor in the injuries, especially because you had the bears on the ropes and had an opportunity to go into the second round of the playoffs. So I think he's looking in where to going, okay, what can I do to change? Is there something I can do to help us get to where we want to go? And I think he's realizing having a veteran or two is not a bad thing on this roster. Which is exactly what I said, but I'm not taking credit in any way for him doing that. I would add that I think what we've seen from him has been him adjusting and that is a good thing, not just with this, but look, he's not the best at admitting when he's wrong, right? I like to think I'm very good at it.

18:03I feel him on that. Yeah, I like the thing I'm very good at because Lord knows I have enough opportunities. I'm married to someone who doesn't listen to the show who struggles with that. But he admitted that he was wrong on Nate Hobbs, right? Because you know what he could have easily done, Gabe? He could have Jimmy Graham, Nate Hobbs. Remember, they cut George, which again, I don't think they're going to bring George back in this veteran trend, but they cut George, they signed Jimmy Graham and the only bigger mistake they made than signing Jimmy Graham was bringing him back for a second season, right? Mm-hmm. Yep. That's what we hear all the time, though. That's what I hear all the time, at least from Chewy, like one of his favorite things and one of the things he said was a strength of Ron Wolfe when he knew he made a mistake.

19:03He moved on from it, right? Like he was, okay, this guy can't play. It's not going to help our team. I'll figure out the back end and the money deal of it, but we got to move on from this guy. If this guy's not going to be able to help us, we're going to move on. And that was a strength of Ron Wolfe who's now in the hall of fame. So I mean, good on duty for going, hey, Nate Hobbs probably blocking some younger guys that we want to play. So let's just make sure that's not even an option next year. All right. I want to get into this hardgrave signing, which I deemed the biggest no-brainer of the entire NFL free agency window. We'll talk about that. Gabe Neitzel is in as our cousin sub of the day. Cousin subs, we believe in better. Let's roll the entouch. This is Will the Entouch, presented by Pella Windows and Doors of Wisconsin, called Gina Della from Pella today, 855 Pella WI, and online at PellaWI.com slash radio. A couple of comments from the YouTube section.

20:14Before we get to Javan Hargrave, BJ, if Jason was GM with Jordy Nelson's contract, still have a few years left to go, yes, I make that joke all the time, very fair. Hillswoodson also most likely paired with Xavier McKinney in the back end. Secondly, Maddie Ice, asking, oh wait a minute, hold on, wrong guy, Scotts, speaking of Hobbs, how about the Packers, thank you post to him, and Bhakt Yari saying for what? If you saw this on social media, I got a good chuckle out of it, but yes, I don't understand Gabe, the farewell social media post to players that you choose to get rid of. I compared it to, I don't know if you remember the NBA coach by the name of Dwayne Casey. Dwayne Casey, one coach of the year for the Toronto Raptors, I can't remember the specific

21:18year, I don't know if it was 2019, is what I want to say, maybe 2018, and after Dwayne Casey, one coach of the year, and the Raptors, unceremoniously bounced out of the playoffs, they fired Dwayne Casey. Now he was named coach of the year after he was fired, and then the Toronto Raptors still decided on social media to put up a congratulations Dwayne Casey for winning coach of the year after he had already been fired. So I kind of look at it the same thing, they just fired Nate Hobbs, like he doesn't need to or thank you or appreciation, and it's just completely unnecessary. I don't mind it, I actually think that people should start doing this when they break up with people in relationships, you should post a social, a thank you post for your time in a relationship with someone, I like to thank Ashley for her time, the last two and a half years were great, it's time for us both to move forward, I wish her all the best. Jesse, but what if you don't actually wish the actual the best, what if you can just break up? If Becca kicked you to the curb, you would not want her posting that on social media.

22:20You know, I had a great run, I want to thank Jesse for all of his time. Yeah. I'm going to allow him to occasionally see Mo the dog, what would it make me feel a little bit better in the grand scheme of things it might, it might, no, it would not, I assure you it would not. So let's get into the, the hardgrave signing, which, which I call the biggest no brainer of the free agency period, now look, he is 33 years old. No one thinks that they are, this is Jalen Carter in his prime, which I know some fans were hopeful of, but look, he was productive last year. He was productive when he was healthy in San Francisco. He tore his triceps in 24, I think you only played three games that year, but he was good for them in 23. Mark Towscher would say in my ear right now, the lead comes at you fast. So the fact that he was great, and I mean great, during his two years with Jonathan

23:24Ganon has to be tempered with the fact that that was 2021 and 2022. Yeah, Trayvon Diggs was great in 2021 also, you didn't see the packers keeping him around after his brief cameo late in the year, right? So I don't want to make this sound more than it is, and maybe this is just a one year rental too, right? It's like Franklin could be, or maybe he's here for both years of this deal, but what did you think right away when this news broke literally less than an hour after it became official that he'd been released by the Vikings? Yeah, I'm with you, it made a ton of sense, and if you're wondering, well, why do the Vikings release him? If he was that productive for them, because they set up the contract last year to basically be a one year deal, masquerading is a two year deal. He would have had a $21.7 million cap hit for the Minnesota Vikings, which is why they released him, right? Well, they weren't going to pay that, he's not what that's on your salary cap.

24:28That and the fact that their salary cap was all jacked up, right? Yes. They could have theoretically, if they had cap space reworked his deal and kept him, they could have done that, but they could, yeah, that's what they did with Aaron Jones to keep him. I mean, there was, like, it's not that he was a bad player, it was that he had a bad contract. Yep. And that's the way these things work, especially when you get to this age, like, you get contracts, like, I mean, the packers gave him a two year deal, Jason. It's masquerading. It's a one year deal masquerading is a two year, maybe he plays well enough and the packers decide, yes, we're going to keep him around, but the Vikings did the same thing in the way that they set it up. He was just going to be too big of a cap hit, but he's still a productive player, and I'm not expecting to be the guy that he was his first year in San Francisco or those two years that he was with Jonathan Ganon in Philadelphia, but he's still, again, it's Profitball Focus so take it for what you will, but he's still a higher, he graded out higher on Profitball Focus than any other packers defensive tackle. So he instantly becomes their best DT and what I like Jason is he's been healthy outside

25:33of a triceps tear. He's playing 15 or 16 games each and every year at a really hard position. This is the guy that to me would make sense of, okay, here's who you take a risk on at the 30 plus age position, because they took the risk on Nate Hobbs last year, he was always beat up for the Raiders. He was always dealing with injury. That's not the case for Hardgrave outside of the year he tore his triceps, which is obviously a huge injury that required surgery, but he's willing to play, he's probably playing through some stuff, and that's exactly what this defensive lie needed. He also had more quick pressures last season than Rashon Gary. The Rashon Gary, which I thought was an interesting stuff. Have you, again, we're in it with the packers, so we see the good, we see the bad more than people coming in and just kind of parachuting in from a national perspective, but Jen has been telling us, she's been listening a lot to the Rich Eisen show right here on ESPN Wisconsin, following this program, and Rich has just been like seeing the praises of Rashon

26:37Gary. Like, this guy's a consistent performer, like, no, he's not consistent, that's been the thing. No, he's consistent. He actually is consistent. He actually is. He's been performing early in the season, and then doesn't perform it all in the last half of the season. Okay. I guess that is good. That's its own form of consistency, Jason. Well, look, my take on Rashon Gary is that he is not a terrible football player. Like, I think, there's a view of him, there's two extremes. It feels like with him, there is a small group of apologists that want to say, he's never, you know, he tore his ACL in 2022, and he was on his way to a double digit sex season. It's 2026, and we've seen players and look, every knee injury is different. I don't, I don't pretend to know Rashon Gary at all. I covered him for seven years. There was a time in there where we weren't in the locker room because of COVID. I don't know him, but I'm sorry.

27:38Speaking. Like, last year when I asked him about how his season was going, and he just glowingly glazed himself on his performance, I was like, what? Self glazed. I just got to keep being great. What? Um, but he also is not a bum. Like, he's not a bad football player, but, but he. Look, speaking speaking of social media posts, Jason, did you see the cowboys posted a welcome to Dallas? And he was signing something. I don't know what he was signing. He was a free agent acquisition. Jason, he was a trade. What was he signing in that picture? I, I, that I couldn't figure out. I assume he was signing some sort of AI generated piece of paper. Yeah. Josh DiMaggio said maybe a W two, you know, maybe he was just filling out the, you know, the tax paper work for, for playing now in, in, uh, Dallas, but Rashon Gary is a solid football player, but the problem is, when you say the things that he said about himself to you, when he talks about how great he is, when he then is, we have eyes, we could

28:43see him loafing and not giving 100% effort on the field. So you do all those things. You don't have the production. And on top of it, you're getting paid to be in a player. And one of the biggest chewy things that I have bought into over the years of working with, with chewy on genuine chewy is the, in order to win a championship, you got to have some C players play like B's, you got to have some B's play like A's, but you need your A players to play like A players, especially if you're paying them. And he did not perform like an A player. And ultimately that's, you get that contract. That means something you have to, that money represents that you have to live up to that expectation, which he never did, which is why the fan base turned on it because he thought he was great. Well, everybody, who would listen to that he thought he was great? Yeah, to Chewy's point, you know, when you really need your A players to play like A players, when you lose your A plus player at the same position. And if I'm going to be critical, and look, you can tell me how he stopped the run.

29:46And you can tell me like Goody about his 60 pressures that not even the Packers own statistics and his bio have him for 60 pressures last season. But when you lose, Micah Parsons, that is when you have to like Greg Jennings in that video game, put the team on your back. And I'm not saying that he should have had a season like Miles Garrett, but to go the final 10 games without a sack, like I, there's just no, after telling everyone, after telling everyone, hey, okay, yep, I know Micah's out. Just watch us watch to see what we do as a defensive, you know, watch what I do over these next. All right, Rishan, we watched. I was not impressed. And look, if he go, I will be the first to admit that if he goes to Dallas and has like a 12 sack season with them this season, hey, he did have it in him and I was wrong.

30:49I don't have any evidence to tell me that he's capable of that though. None. Zero. No. No, because outside of the year, he tore his ACL, like he was on track. He was on pace. Certainly. He was on track this season. And till he wasn't, that's kind of the way it goes with Rishan. And it does feel like, and I don't, I don't want to, I want to get back into the heart grave discussion, but it does feel a little bit like we have made excuses for it. Like he was the number one recruit in the country. And remember when they drafted him, all we talked about was, well, he was facing double and triple teams all the time at Michigan, right? And that's why his numbers were not what you would expect them to be for the 12th overall pick. Like it just feels like we always kind of made a lot of excuses for his minimal or less than what we would have expected, I should say, production. Well, and then they're asking him to stand up and he's going to be better with his hand in the dirt. And we know with those were excuses that we made for him over the course of his time in

31:51Green Bay. And again, is he a solid player? Does he belong in the NFL? Absolutely. Seven and a half sacks is nothing like seven and a half sacks is still decent production, but it's not superstar production. And he fancies himself a superstar. So that's paid there. And paid like one. And he was paid like one. Correct. All right. We need to, we need to stay on the clock so I can prove my point. We're off to a rough start. Adam and DeForest does point out that Rich Eisen is a Michigan man. Thus the praise for Gary. That's probably part of it. That's fair. A lot of people pointing that out on the text line in YouTube and everywhere. Yeah. Well, I'm going to point out to you that you don't need to hop on a plane or board a cruise ship to feel like you've escaped. Your next getaway is waiting right in Milwaukee at Potawatomi Casino Hotel. Start with the stay. The biggest hotel rooms in Milwaukee, nearly 500 beautifully designed rooms and luxury suites that are perfect for a weekend reset a date night or celebrating something big.

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34:08For those of you wondering, and I saw this question asked in a couple of different YouTube comments, according to over the cap.com, the Packers are 29 million under the cap still. Now I don't know if that, we don't know enough of the details, I don't know if they're including the hardgrave signing or not on that, it doesn't look like that's been added in just yet. And that's because we don't know the structure of it. But they'll still have plenty of cap space to do some maneuvering. And again, remember, the cap space that they clear with Nate Hobbs by designating him a post June 1 cut, they don't get that until June 1. So I assume that that move is probably with an eye on an extension for a tucker craft or a Christian Watson or whoever it might be, which is a whole other discussion we can

35:12have about couple go ahead, finish, I'm sorry, I cut you off. I pulled the test. Yeah, you national guys, man, you just think you can just run rough shot over the rest of us. I'm someone on the show apologize for interrupting Jason. The last time would be never Wow, is that the first time what just happened? Um, I think it's going to be really interesting to see what they utilize this cap space for because I thought it was fascinating that there was this, and I'm sure you saw this game, there, it felt like among Packers fans on social media, there was like a gettiness of, oh, they're marshaling their resources to do something big, whether it was Jalen Carter, whether it was Rick Woolen, who signed a one year deal by the way, um, which I didn't quite understand, um, but that didn't materialize. And the big signing right now is depending on your perspective, Benjamin St. Jews, or

36:16Javon Hartgrave. Now I'm done. Yeah. So with Rick Woolen, um, Adam Schaefter said on our show today on Jen Gave and Shoey, that he is, he's actually comparing the Rashid Walker situation to what Rick Woolen dealt with. Rick went out in the free agency, his, uh, market didn't develop the way that he thought it would. So we signed a one year deal to try to bet on himself for next year, and he thinks that's what's ultimately going to happen now, um, with Rashid Walker, since that has not come to fruition. So when I saw the, yes, it's going to be a post June one cut for Nate Hobbs as well. Okay. Now that money is going to be available then. But my question, Jason is, I know the Packers just typically do their extensions shortly before or early in training camp. We've seen that with how many ever players at this point for the Packers. Why don't they do those earlier in the off season? Yeah, I don't know. Uh, that is another trend away from something. Yes. A great point, Gabe. Because that's just what the voice done. I've accepted that's the way that they've always done it.

37:17I just don't know why they do it that way. Yeah. So what was it? Was it late in the 17 season, like toward the end where we weren't quite sure who was running the organization, um, when they extended Corey Linsley and Devonte Adams before the season ended. Um, I, that was, that was interesting, right? Those guys both were really, really good players, they ended up being pro bowl players. It was smart and, and I, I keep hearing Goody's voice repeatedly saying one, well now it's 1.5 before it was 1.6. Now he says 1.5, uh, players that are retained on a second contract from each draft class league wide. Again, I would argue that the draft and replace, as opposed to draft and develop approach that they seem to take, generally speaking, uh, they still need more than 1.5. And they've got two right now from the 2022 class in Zack Tom and Sean Ryan with multi-year

38:19deals. Two other guys that are on one year deals at the moment in Devonte, Wyatt and Christian Watson. I don't have a good answer for you. Um, you know, the, Jair got done in October. I think Rashon Gary definitely got done in an October, um, Zack done a camp, no, no November. Late November. Yep. I think late November for Bakhtiari and then, uh, less than a month later, he's, or roughly a month later, he's tearing his ACL in practice. So yeah, I, again, but, but, and I, I understand that Jordan Lovedio was a little more complicated but that got done. Obviously he missed a couple of days of practice, you know, so that got done during training camp. Yeah, they did it very rarely do those extensions happen kind of now in the free agency period or even the dead period where there's not a lot of, you know, player movements leading up to training camp. I will be curious to see what they do because there are some, like, reasons for pause,

39:22right? Like, I think we both agree that Tucker Kraft is a stud. How quickly do you sign a guy coming off an ACL to an extension? Uh, I don't know the answer to that. Well, again, that's an extension of this magnitude. Yeah, because I mean, they, they, what, uh, nine months after the extension, or the, they extended Christian Watts in last year about nine months, yeah, but after it is, but a one year placeholder extension, right? Yes, it versus what, I mean, this is going to be probably one of the top titan contracts in the NFL. So probably wait till you get closer to camp on that one just to make sure everything's going well. And I would understand being hesitant and wanting to make sure everything's checking out given the David Bakhtiari situation, even though he's a great player, that is the outlier. Yes. And even though the Bakhtiari situation when it comes to knees is the outlier. When you're spending this kind of money, you just got to make sure that that's this ACLs not going to be another outlier in that Tucker Kraft should be or expect to be fine.

40:24But I would, I would expect that one to get done before training camp, yeah. And then, and maybe we, we can do this coming up next, but, uh, the Watson Wicks Reed conversation, I don't really particularly want to talk about Jayden Reed with you, uh, your hater. Yeah. Uh, but I just, yeah, I point out facts, Jason, how what you do with the facts that I point out and how you interpret them actually says more about you than it does me. Um, yeah, that's, that got you good so much for apologizing for interrupting me. Now he's getting after me for questioning it's more like it around here. Uh, yeah, um, but they, look, they can't let them all walk. And I said this to Towsh yesterday or earlier in the week, you know, I am, I am a Christian Watson Stan. I am. I will admit, admit that. Uh, I was also a quay walker guy. I'm eager to see what he does in Vegas, uh, because it doesn't seem like it really works

41:24out for anybody in Vegas that goes to Vegas, um, but like, uh, as much as I like Christian Watson and everything that he's about, uh, given him $114 million or whatever the Indian apolis Colts gave Alec Pierce, given his injury history, I'd be apprehensive about. At the same time, I think he is special. And when he's healthy, he is really special. So they've got some decisions to make there. We will get further into all these things as we roll on, uh, Gabe, how do you think things have gone so far? Would you say? You're apologizing for interrupting, but then you're kind of getting after me a little bit. What do you think? Yeah. I think that's the way the show should go, right? Like I apologize, put my hand up when I was wrong, and, you know, but you got to have a little, there, there's got to be a little tension throughout the course of the show, a little disagreement, a little pushback. Yes. They're varying degrees of, uh, disagreement and pushback intention on the show, uh, from

42:25a day by day basis. So, uh, today, you know, I think we've got a healthy amount. Uh, you know what you need to do and, and look, I, I'll tell you this, when it comes to the Bucks, when nothing against Dave Kane, who is phenomenal, called the Virginia National Championship for Tony Bennett's team. But the two guys that are my friends are Justin Garcia and Gabe Nightsle. And when they're on the call of a Bucks game, I use my little serious XM app where they've got like the Bucks channel. Luckily, I've been in the car for when you guys have called the game. So I've gotten like 95% of each of those games, when you guys were calling them, when Dave was under the weather, it's awesome. The only thing that's better from an audio perspective with the Bucks is Bucks Plus. And the new season of Behind the Bucks, the podcast that you'll find on the Bucks Plus Audio Network presented by Gallagher, you're trusted insurance broker in HR and benefits

43:26consultant. Right now, there was one that Marcus Johnson did. Now it's the Bucks against the world, about that 87 team that played in those games. Was that at the mecca, the old mecca, I assume the, the world came to us. I should listen to it. I should hear Charlie Barons narrating it. You can do that right now on Behind the Bucks presented by Gallagher, go to Bucks.com slash plus the Bucks app, the ESPN Wisconsin app or wherever you get your podcast behind the Bucks presented by Gallagher. More with Gabe, our cousin, sub of the day next, Swole the Intouch. Brewers, baseball leaves, back, first pitch swinging and a try to deep left. It's way back and way gone for Brandon Lockridge, first home run of the spring. You're listening to Madison's new home of the Milwaukee Brewers, 100.5 ESPN. All right, I'm not going to go so far as to say that Jesse has a genius idea for the

44:33top of the 10 o'clock hour, but he's got a good idea. And I'm going to turn it over to him when we start the 10 o'clock hour to explain what he's got planned. I want to answer or ask you and have both of us answer a question from Tom on the Twitter feed. It's hard to balance all the ways people can reach us, right? Carbless talk and text line. Obviously, we have guests who join us on the yingling guest hotline. You can tweet at us. You can Jesse doesn't check the Facebook messages nearly enough, quite frankly. I do like Facebook, though. You know me. I'm an old school cat. Yeah, but you don't respond to people. I constantly get alerts that say so and so is waiting for a response from Wildean Touch. What's your deal? New Year's resolution. I'll do better at it starting now. I don't know. No, no, no, no, no. Doing New Year's resolution. Everyone gave up on them all right. Everyone that's got a New Year's resolution gave up on it. I'm just starting mine a little later to have a better chance at success.

45:37It's like starting the Wildean Touch show on YouTube and just starting it when you started. Start it nice. I am. It's the convenience. You can comment on YouTube. They're all doing a show about David Bakhtiari's tweet. So if you want to at any point discuss that further, they're doing an entire show. I saw that. You can comment on Bakhtiari. Yeah. Yeah. And the ridiculousness of the firing someone like Gabe said and then thank you for your service. That's great. That's great. That's great. That's great. That's great. That's great. That's great. That's great. That's great. That's great. That's great. That's great. Yeah, that's thanks to someone's better for like 10 years. Like we should get more than that. It's a real nice little send off. I'm not going anywhere near that discussion because I want to keep my job. So let's get to top. I'm just saying what our procedure is. That's all I'm doing. That's, yeah, that's, that's all you're saying.

46:38It's a good thing you're a big star. So Tom asks, question of the Packers draft philosophy. Why invest a first rounder in an off the ball linebacker who did show promise and then not sign him to a second contract. What would it take for them to offer him a second? Well, they did off again as he said to me on the record, which players never do. He had an offer on the table in like late September, early October from the Packers. Quays set it on the record. And my understanding is that they were still trying to resign him after the season and then they found out what other teams were potentially going to pay him. And they said, too rich for my blood. And that's how he ends up in Vegas. But to Tom's question, it seems like a lot and they they it takes time for guys to develop. So why spend the first round pick there to begin with gave I said this to Towsh and I don't come up with great ideas very often on this show.

47:42But I think Goody's track record now would tell us that his philosophy is not draft and develop. It's draft and replace. And unless you're really special, we're going to draft somebody else then and have him on a rookie contract for four years instead of paying you because you're good, but not special at a position. Yeah, I think you nailed it there, Jason, because and I don't look at Quay Walker as a bust for the Packers because they still got four pretty good years out of middle line backer play on a cheap contract, which is one of first round, you know, and again, would they have preferred that he developed into a stud that they didn't mind paying the way I think that they could potentially pay Edger and Cooper in two years. I think yes, they would prefer that he didn't. He's still a solid player, but they didn't want to pay an invest in that position specifically. And I don't know if this is a a round wolf thing. If it's, I mean, there have been very select times where the Packers have invested in that position, obviously drafting AJ Hawk, fifth overall, you know, I mean, Quay's a first

48:44round pick, but they haven't thrown a ton of money at that position. They haven't spent, you know, oh, now he's the top player at this position. That's not a position that the Packers historically have. I don't want to say they don't value it, but they don't want to pay top dollar for it. No. And Quay Walker got top dollar and it was a thank you for your service situation for him. Move down desire Franklin, who is considerably cheaper and still can provide some veteran leadership at that position. So that's why I think they moved on from Quay because they liked him obviously, but they didn't think that he was, you know, the guy that he is being paid to be now in Las Vegas. And I will say that of all the players that have been part of this exodus, he's the one guy that if I was a betting man and I was going to be nervous about one guy popping after the Packers let him go. He's the guy. I'm not super duper confident that he's going to do that.

49:48But I, I feel like he was finally getting it together the last two years and playing like I thought he was capable of. And I mean, we've, the Packers have seen obviously in their routes to try to get the Super Eagles. Whether it was against San Francisco, whether it was against Tampa Bay in, you know, the earlier part of this decade and a little bit in 2019, obviously as well. What really good inside linebackers can do, but I'm not putting him on the drag green maw level, you know, the linebackers that that the Bucking Ears had in 2020. He's not on that level. He's probably the level below. And you got to be up on that level. I think for the Packers to pay you at that position, specifically, yeah, you're right about that. All right. We need to get to the 10 o'clock hour just so you're ready to take over the show. Oh, I got a good one for you guys coming up. One of my favorite things we're going to do it. It's kind of fun. Well, Nelly already. No, but we can won't Nelly this if it's a really bad idea. It's fair.

50:48The 10 o'clock hour starts in two minutes. It's will be a touche. Go anywhere. Another hour of will be in touche presented by fellow windows and doors of Wisconsin is coming up next on ESPN Wisconsin and the ESPN Wisconsin app.