70-Year-Old Killer Realizes His Life Is Over

0:00Forget everything you had planned for this weekend because you are sitting on your couch and winning from the comfort of your own home. I'm here with SpinQuest where you can play hundreds of slot games, all of the table games you love, and you could even win real cash prizes. New users, $30 coin packs are on sale for 10 at SpinQuest.com. SpinQuest is a free to play social casino. Boydweuer prohibited. Visit SpinQuest.com for more details. Welcome to your top true crime hub for the variety and episodes you're looking for. Enjoy. First, we'll kind of just start from the beginning, you know. Let's go back. Let's take you back all the way to the day. Now, this happened 13 years ago. Do you know what the date was? I called on February 28th. I know that, well, that's what I call early in the morning.

1:05I think it was around 2.30 in the morning. Okay. 2.30 in the morning. I think so. All right. So February 28th, 2000. 2000. Okay. That's when this happened. Right. Okay. All right. We're staying in my life. Yeah. Get a management. Very traumatic, right? And at that point, how long have you guys married? We were married about three years and three months right around that time. Okay. I know I've talked to a couple of people, but how did you initially meet Cynthia? We were in the dating service. It was called Heart to Heart. Okay. And we met that way. She actually was the one that initiated the conflict with me. Okay. And then back then, you guys weren't living in South Dakota. No. No. She was living with her mom and our bridge and I was living in displace. Okay.

2:06And then when did you guys get married? We got married October 5th, 1996. Okay. And then at some point, you made your way to South Dakota. Can you tell me about that? What happened? Like the decision to move out there and all that? Well, my house was small and we decided. Well, my wife made a lot of decisions. So she decided she didn't know I would be in a small house. We were looking around for a number of different places and finally found some property. I was out there and I decided to have a house built. And that was probably the beginning of a lot of our problems having house built. Now, when you were in displace, did she move in with you or did you? Yeah. Because we were married in 1996. So you stayed in displace for about a year. At your house? Yeah. Yeah. At the house I had in displace. And when she brought up the idea of moving or did she bring up any of your moving?

3:07Probably in her house, if you were saying? Well, we had discussed that toy before. We got married. I mean, we decided, you know, we needed a bigger house. So you weren't against moving? No. Okay. Okay. And you mentioned earlier when you guys decided to build a house that was kind of the beginning of. Well, you guys, when your first marriage, everything was good or all right? Yeah. Did you elaborate on that a little bit? Well, you know, when you're building a house. Well, I had, first of all, we hired my cousin to build a house. What was that? My head. Okay. And probably I'm a state to hire relative to do your work. And so we, you know, we got into it. Cost a lot of money. Overruns and costs. It was my cousin. My wife was very disappointed in the progress being made at the house.

4:07And rightfully so. And so there would, you know, family is important to me. My cousin is important. I still love him. I respect him. Was she right about not being competent? The people he hired. I don't, I trusted my cousin. The people he hired, I'm not sure did. But let me see. I think they may have pulled the wall over his eyes. And by doing so. Had cost overrun inside our house and it caused a lot of conflict between. How much are you talking about? Well, I know there's a little bit might be okay. How much are you talking about? Well, we're talking about a house that cost us $800,000 to build. That was a final price. That was right on the final price. When I unloaded it before I moved out, I lost about $150,000.

5:13So yeah, you know, there were cost over rise. Because how, how can you have built a house for a relative. A cousin and say, you know, you can get your money back out of the house. And she priced houses around the area and said, you know what? This house is nowhere near that cost. And she was right. And I, you know, I admitted it to I said, yeah, I know you're right. And we had a number of meetings with my cousin and we discussed. You know, all the details and I said, you know, they just, they don't see it. That it's, you know, it's our choices. We had granite countertops. We had beautiful wood floors. All these extras were something that added to the price of the house according to my cousin. Well, we saw equipment houses with the granite and the things.

6:16And nowhere near that amount. So it was more. It was more. He underpriced it maybe. I think he underpriced it. But I also think some of the men that he hired. They may have taken advantage of it in advantage of them. They worked over the winter. And I don't think they got much done. The progress. My wife caught them one time sleeping or making a little fire on the property. Keeping themselves warmed during the winter. When they could have been working and getting something done or go home. And not charge anything for their time. I think they. Charge just a lot of extra time. That they did not achieve anything or accomplish anything. So now your cousin was he the general contract. It was a general contract. So he didn't actually do any building himself. Yeah, he was he pitching it. He was pitching it also. He would actually come.

7:17Really? He didn't work. Yeah. No. And not. Put any extra charges on it. But yeah. You can't compensate for the three people that are working full time. When you're working just one day a week. Exactly. A couple of years ago company. Yeah. He's got it is still does. Okay. Yeah. Entertainment construction. What did he primarily build? Like commercial residential. You know, yeah. Mostly, you know, white hand pantries. A lot of people. And he was like the things. And he did some houses that nothing is big as ours. So could you would you say that this was like his first goal at. How's that size? That I have the house size. Yeah. That means he needed a lot of contractors beneath them. He needed to control it. And it was. Yeah. And I don't think it was controlled quite properly. Yeah. Okay. And so, you know, there were price overruns. It was caused a lot of conflict between my wife and myself.

8:18And, you know, that was just the way things were. Now, I saw on one of the reports that somebody, I think the building engineer from South Brayden said that the house was delayed for almost a year or something like that. It was delayed to one spring because there was a lot of rain. And it was like, it was like this spring. Yeah, it was terrible. Okay. And so, when we had the foundation there, there was a lot of flooding. And so, the work couldn't proceed. And they were pumping the water out with a pump, you know, like a pump pumping it out. And there's still mud. And, you know, then we had, there was, when they poured the foundation, there were, you know, they fired somebody, we got a real good price on, bit on the foundation and, well, and there was one wall that cracked and had taken that down and replaced and all kinds of crap.

9:21So, right from the beginning. Right from the get-go. Right from the get-go. Yes. What did you buy the property? And there was nothing there? Then we bought the property and there was nothing there. It was a, it was a nice piece of property. It was big in life. Yeah, it was kind of low and it needed a lot of fill and we didn't bring in fill. We got some free fill, some free some places. Mm-hmm. The tap soil, I think we paid for some trouble with the tap soil, but the rest was mostly clay, if we failed, I just thought. Oh, good, right? Yeah, I was no good really. Oh, good. For doing stuff like that, right? Well, it was all right for the house. I mean, for you, you put your house in a clay foundation. Now, when the house would be built, were you still living in the splines? Yeah. Okay. A house, did you say you had there? Yeah. Okay. So, were you going back and forth? You know, kind of keep an eye on the progress at the house? Oh. Sent to you also?

10:21Yeah. Yeah. So maybe more than you, maybe. Her more than me, yeah. Because you're working. I'm working. She's not really working besides doing a nutritional. Yeah. I mean, she didn't have a full contingent of clients. She would work maybe two, three days a week. Well, she was building this house to be built around her business. Right. So, she's really interested in this house and getting it built and getting it done as quick as she can and having it done right because she's going to be bringing clients out that way. And she wants to impress everybody here, you know, so she wants to make sure this house is pristine, you know. Right. So, because it starts building the house, the kind of tractors, some kind of tractors that he's using, maybe that's so great, huh? Yeah. Some of the guys, the carpentry, even the electrical people, the plumbing, I mean, everything,

11:27every tap to bottom. Sounds like a mic at the movie. When everything is just going wrong, it's on the part, I mean, it sounds like it's kept hacked off about there. It's not completely built. Now, here you are, making repairs and something, brand new house, you know, and you mentioned electrical problems. Yeah. I mentioned, I saw something in a report about convincing a doorbell, probably just some of those things that would be just annoying. You would think that they would put the wiring in for the doorbell to the inside of the kitchen so that we could have the, you know, instead we ended up with, you know, you can get up to our bell. That's wireless and that's what we had to end up doing. But to use an 800,000 out of house or whatever, you're putting in, you personally are putting in your own doorbell? Yeah. No good, right? Yeah. So was he getting upset because whether it's slots or live dealers, SpinQuest.com has the

12:34fun and action you're looking for with SpinQuest exclusives, Blackjack, Roulette, Baccarot, and even live dice with craps and bubble craps. The games never stop so you don't have to. And right now, new users get $30 coin packs for just 10 bucks. Right now at SpinQuest.com. SpinQuest is a free to place social casino, Boydwell prohibited, visit SpinQuest.com for more details. Yeah. I mean, were they going back and forth? Oh, yeah. And she wanted me to have a number of meetings with him and we did have a number of meetings with him. We had a mediator, one of these meetings from Willow Creek. Do you know his name at all? I don't know. I forget the name because we did have somebody from Willow Creek. Philip? Maximodo? Oh, no, Philip was a lawyer. He was not involved in the mediator. He had somebody from Willow Creek.

13:37Actually, I probably have some tapes of his. He was, he was on, he did this peacemaker thing from Willow Creek. Did you guys go to the church there? Did you put out a video or something? Yeah, he did. He did. Yeah, I remember reading it. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, a great guy. Does that mean you guys went to church when you were there? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we were going to have him as a mediator. And did we go through that meeting? I think we did. And we were also going to Dr. Watson as his marriage counselor. Because this was causing a lot of problems, you know. Man, it gets hit bad. You know, the problem with it is, you know, causing your kind of getting stuck in the middle. Yeah. She's yelling at you. You're trying to keep peace with him because you love him.

14:38It's your family and things are getting kind of crazy, huh? Pretty crazy. So it got to the point to where you guys probably needed some counseling. Right. Either through Willow Creek and then you hit this guy off in the States. Yeah. I think he was recommended from Willow Creek Dr. Watson was. Yeah. And, you know, at first I didn't like all of it. After going to hand, then I think it was the right choice for both of us. Yeah. They had you guys writing letters to each other or something like that. What was the deal on that? Well, you know, with, with Cynthia. Everything I said, I felt like I needed a lawyer when I talked to my wife. Because, well, you would say this, you know, and then she keep track.

15:38And I said, you know what? Let's just write down, you know, what we said and why we said it. And, and Dr. Watson was certainly in favor of me doing that. So, actually, we were the week that she died. We were scheduled to go in and talk to Dr. Watson that week. And I had my thing written out and was ready to respond to her questioning. And she had given me the list of questions and comments. And I responded in writing to them. That I could think about it rather than trying to respond out of emotion. Right. At the moment, I could think about what her questions were. Respired to them and they come. And thoughtful man or rather than responding as a defense mechanism.

16:44So, these letters were written. And I think Brian's got to copy these letters. We'll take a look at those. But they were written prior to the counseling. Prior to the counseling. Okay. Not in the counseling session. Okay. You write a letter. You write a letter. Yeah. She wrote these letters. Was that her suggestion? The right deeps letters or questions or whatever? Almost Dr. Watson actually. And I said, you know, I think there were a lawyer that responded to you. Did he feel that was going to be therapeutic for you guys? Yeah. He thought it was in favor of that. And I was looking actually looking forward to going to the meeting. Because I had all my responses. Right now, it's ready to a little answer. You know, her. Her thoughts and her. And then what else was after that? She played with a little while.

17:46You know, he's probably on the card playing with him. I think she might have been on in her. I usually played with. And she would be in her office taking care of things for maybe her clients the next day or something like that. Because I usually took care of the weekends. Did she have people coming for the house? Oh, yeah. And then weekends too. Did she say the weekends for family? Sometimes I weekends. I don't. Do you remember? She had clients say, we can or not. I don't recall. Maybe on Saturday, but. Certainly not on Sunday. Okay. So you guys make dinner. She's in the office maybe. You're playing. Okay. And then what happens?

18:47Yeah, ready for bed. I mean, we had probably had dinner late. We usually had to leave dinner later in the evening. Seven o'clock meeting. Thank you for a while. I'm getting ready for bed. Did we change? Ready for bed. Maybe to do a little reading. I went to bed. I know I had turned out. I was watching some TV in bed. And she wanted to take the world pool. Did she do that often? Yeah. She did. And I turned down the water. He did water downstairs. And she turned it back up. So I was wondering whether she turned it up. What happened? Well, she always. She would take a world pool. I mean, she puts straight hot water in there. I mean, it wasn't. She wouldn't mix it with cold water. I couldn't even take the heat that she would put in there.

19:48So. And so I turned that heat down. How water. Down downstairs. So it was. It's called that. But that's the way she. And so she said that, that's all I wanted to do. Because of her. And you're ever taken a world pool? Oh, yeah. Oh, together or just separate? Well, we took it together. You could stand standing or was it okay? All right, so she goes into world pool, and where are you at at this time? I'm in bed, I'm probably watching a little bit of TV, and then I turned the TV off. I had my book, I was, we had an assignment on the Peace Nakers, the book. Peter, Peacekeepers, Peacekeepers, I think it was.

20:52Peacemaker. Peacemaker? Okay. And I was reading the book. And put it down for a while, fell asleep. Do you know about what time it was? Maybe between 10 and 10, 30, somewhere around there, because that work is the next day. So I fell asleep there, and I didn't wake up until I heard crying, which was about two years early in the morning or so, and that rolled over to, I mean, it was her turn to, you know, take care of them, you know, it's something you want to go into, you know, the pool, and roll over, and she's not there, and I hear the motor on the top of her mind.

21:52And she was in there, how did you know she was there? Well, the motor was going, you know, it was like, oh, no, you know, it's like a fireplace. I knew she was dead, how did you know? Well, I mean, she wasn't breathing, she had been under there, and then I pulled her out of the top of the side, onto the floor, and then I just left and went into the bed and made the call. Do you know how long before the time you pulled her out of the tub, till you called 911? Oh, I met her up, yes, fine-ness. Okay, could you kind of explain to me the layout of the tub, how does the bedroom, you know,

23:01where is the tub compared to the bedroom? On the tub, there's the bedroom is here. At everything you had planned for this weekend, because you are sitting on your couch and winning from the comfort of your own home. I'm here with SpinQuest, where you could play hundreds of slot games, all of the table games you love, and you could even win real cash prizes. New users, $30 coin packs are on sale for 10, at SpinQuest.com. SpinQuest is a free to play social casino, voidware prohibited. Visit SpinQuest.com for more details. And then there's two vanities. There was a door, two vanities. And then there was another door into the bathroom with a walk to the tub. So she had closed the first door and the second door.

24:03And then she was in the tub. And of course, it was, you could hear it going from the bedroom. But the tub was raised, tub at hand, one step there and into the tub. And there was some window in the back overlooking the backyard. And then to the side, there was another entrance to the bathroom. There was actually a walking closet that was really, really long. It must have been about, I mean, it's probably 30 feet long, it's a closet. And then there was a walking closet. That door was closed and the door into the bathroom. There was an open and closed, they don't recall. But that was another door, another entrance into the bathroom that way. So there were two entrances into the bathroom. Did you say there's a door between the bedroom and the bathroom?

25:03Yeah. One door. There's one door between the door. There's a regular door between the bedroom and the two vanities on the one side. And then if somebody wanted privacy to be in the bathroom, you know, one of us wanted privacy. And there was another door, first door, yeah. First door, look in. Yeah. Then I hit it open the second door to go into the bathroom. And I saw nothing but the scum later on the top of the water at the time when I walked in. You know, was the tub filled to the top? The tub was filled almost to the top, yeah. When you first looked in. And then you looked in the tub. I looked in the tub. I don't know whether I looked in the tub and didn't see her there. I might have looked in the tub and shut off the water and opened the drain.

26:06Because I was told later on that the tub level was down. And that there was six inches of water according to some radio report. Well, that wasn't there. Well, the next day somebody told me to be heard about it over the radio. Cynthia died and she drowned in six inches of water. And I said, no way. Somebody heard it or somebody told me they said they heard it. And I said, no way. Because the tub was full. And I know for sure that it was full. So when you went in there with a light sign? The bathroom? Well, yeah. But you're still on. Thanks for running as far as I can recall. So you notice she's at a bed. She's not. You hear the tub running. Door is closed. Open the door. You go into the tub area.

27:06And tub's still running. Lights around. You look in the tub. I used to hear. I didn't see her initially. No. And then you go to the tub. What happened then? Well, it's good question. I'm not quite sure the details. Whether I shut them. I reached in. I did. I think I reached in and didn't feel anything initially. And probably shut the tub off. Yeah. You shut the tub off? Then what happened? Well, then I just kept looking around. And I found Cynthia at the other end of the tub. Not towards where the faucet was. That's a big tub. She was over. I think it is. I'd say it's about half this room over here. A corner half here. I mean, to the point that she's under the water.

28:11Can you see her or not see her? If it was just water, you could see her. But there was a scum on top of the water that she apparently invented. And so I did not see her. So then you reach into the tub? I reach into the tub. Feel her. You felt that she was in the tub? Yeah. Okay. Was she face up? Face down? Do you remember? She was definitely face up. And I told me that wasn't possible. The last time I interviewed people and I'm saying no way she was face up. Face up kind of tub. She was face up. I saw her. I pulled her out and she was face up. Now the drain. Where's the drain? The drain was at the end of the tub. Middle of the tub. I believe it was right near where the water was coming in. There was where the drain was. Okay. So there's a spiket there where the water comes in directly under a spiket drain.

29:13Yeah. So not like the drains at one end of the tub. Like a regular tub at one end and then your head is at the other end. So. I think I'm pretty sure it was at the same time. Do you remember? Okay. Let's say this is the tub here. You walk into the bathroom. Do you remember if her head was to the left or to the right? As you're looking at the tub. Well, if I'm looking at the tub, the spiket's over here. Right. Okay. To the left. So. Okay. Is on the left hand side. Is that by the drain or away from the drain? Well, I think it's away from the drain because I think the spiket was over by. By the during was over by the spiket, I believe. So there's spikets in the middle of the tub. I don't, I don't recall, but I think it was at the right hand side of the tub. Okay.

30:13All right. So you walk up to the tub. You don't see her. I don't see. You feel around. You feel her. I'm feeling around over the right hand side of the tub. And find her. So I can say. Probably. I don't remember shutting off the water, but I probably did. The, the jets, right? But not the water coming out of the spiket. Was the water coming out? Water was coming out of the spiket. Yeah. What do you do? Leave the water running. Why are you sitting in the tub? I wouldn't have. No. But it was running at the time I went in there. It was running. The water was. The water was. Yeah. Now let's see. You, you go to bed at 9 30, 10 30. Now it's 2 30 in the morning. You think the water was running that whole time? I think it was. 9 30, 10 30, 11 30, 12 31. That's five hours. I think it was running. Four or five hours. Was no think with.

31:14Construction. Employment with flooded or something. We've had some issues. No overflow drains. Was it working? Yeah. Overflow drain was working. So it was probably in the overflow. Is that normal for her to do that? Leave the water running. No. I would think she would have turned well. If she didn't have enough hot water, she would have let her run. If she let that run like that, her, your hot water tank would have diminished, like quickly. Yes. That water would have been cold running out of that faucet if it's running that long. Yeah. Yeah. You did your notice that the water was cold, warm, hot? I, I thought it was. I don't recall. I don't, don't recall it being cold. There is a heating element on the top as well, though. Oh. So when it's circulating, when it's circulating, you got the heating element going as well.

32:16It keeps the warm. I don't know if it's cold. Okay. Okay. So you reach in. Yeah. You feel her. What happens then? Well, then I pull her out of the top. How did you pull her out? I went around the top of her waist. I'm going under her arms. Pulled her over to the side of the tub and onto the floor. Face up. You're saying face up toward me. So now you got her. Your arms underneath her, supporting her. And then when you pull her up, will she face up? Yeah. She's face up. Pictures of the bathroom, which is in between the master bedroom and the world pool room. Right there. Okay. And I get another view. Just close her up. Send these back. Hey, Brian, do we have the pictures of her?

33:16You're at least a minute. Yeah, I think it's going to go as well. So as your kind of picture, you can just run all of this. Yeah. Just pull to those other ones. And then you can take them out of the house. Okay. I'm going to give you some water. Yeah. Can you get them there? Put it on here. You want to take them out? Yeah. You got it. Do you want some water? Yeah. You got to use a little water. Did I take a washroom? Yeah, you want to do that? Yeah. Yeah. Whether it's slots or live dealers, spinquest.com has the fun and action you're looking for. Spinquest exclusives. Blackjack, roulette, boccara, and even live dice with crabs and bubble crabs. The games never stop so you don't have to. And right now, new users get $30 coin packs for just $10. Play now at spinquest.com.

34:16Spinquest is a free to play social casino. Boydware prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details. Okay. We'll take a look at that. We'll take a look. After that, all experts in the area of water related death, along with two experts that are in the field of water, death, investigation, have all written opinions that saying there's no other reason for this. We happened to sit the other than homicide and that she was forced into water. In the last three years, had five experts extensively. the crime and they all concluded and read Roman opinions that led to the change of this to homicide. If you had something to do with this, you're going to have to buzz them out. You know, to say you've been thinking about this thing for the past 13 years. So we want you to tell us the truth and exactly what happened here. So that you're a good person and we understand what was

35:22going on in the background. But I know it was on you and you know what happened. I've always wanted closure on this. Now I can tell you one thing. My son one time came down to the kitchen and he opened the cabinet door and he peed inside the cabinet and I slapped him on the butt and sent him to bed and cleaned up. And the next day I asked him what happened and he said nothing. He said, I don't remember he's letting me on the butt. I don't remember doing it. The only way I could have done this would be that without any recall because I don't recall anything. And that's the truth. Crackles come to me now. It's not like there's somebody snuck in the house and did this to her. You're the only one home, right? Your son is way too young,

36:26you know. So I mean everybody that we talked to in the recent past year has said that this is a homicide. No doubt about it. And you know, we believe that with all the stuff that's been going on here with the house problem, somebody passes out and just falls under the water. They don't have 17, 17 different injuries to their body. It just doesn't happen. So legitimately you gotta think you think hard. There's no way it's not like you dream this or anything like that, you know. There's no way, you know. I have, you know what I'm saying? I have no recall of anything there. You gotta say something. You can't just say I have no recall. Plus with Brian being there so fast, the water being low, looking at her body, she's dry. Your dry, she's dry. There's no water on the floor.

37:32The only indication that she was in the water, her hair was damp. There had to be some time between the time you pulled her out of this tub and put her on the floor that you called 911. It wasn't an instant thing like that. You didn't call 911 and two minutes later, he's there. First thing he noticed, everybody's dry. How does that happen? The lighting was, you know, basically the way it is right here. So you're just one of those people that was put in a situation here. And did you mean to do this? Was this an intentional act? You know, did you plan it? That's what I want to know. Did you plan this for a month? Do you see these letters? Say, I'm gonna assume she gets in the next tub. I'm putting it out there, you know. Did you plan this out? No way. Right. I don't believe that either.

38:37Unless you fooled me and say, oh yeah, I plan to do this for a month. I meant to do this for about two years now. And I finally had the opportunity. I mean, do you want it to be like that? What do you want to be? A spur-in-a-home thing? Push down to the water. You didn't need to do it. I mean, whatever your story is. And you told someone the next day that you did it in the third age. You told someone the day after you interviewed that you might have done it in the third age. So you believe that it's possible? I believe that it's possible. I knew it was one of the three things. It was either or an accident or I killed it. That was one of three things. And the medical examiners that we went to, the three experts, including reconstruction, it's all set. Those first two, zero chance, rule them out. There's nobody in the United States

39:39of America that has died with those two things that you're talking about. But it does not have a mark on the neck about someone before she died. So there's a zero chance. And number three is the only possibility. It's 100% certain that that's what happened. That's why they got the test certificate as a homicide. There's no accident here. Top pathologists in the Cooke County, Illinois, moved this homicide. The number one person, it does not have that. Not really. What does it mean? I mean, I don't see where, you know, this is going to go. If you're going to file charges against me, you need to do so. And then we'll take it from there because I don't know what else I can say. Well, I don't know. I mean, you're going to keep questioning me about

40:39what I remember. I've told you what I do. Really quick, just if I can, you have to use the washroom just a minute ago. And then Bob took you down there. Yeah. And then the sheriff brought you back. Nobody talked about the case when you're out of your way with the right. Okay, just want to make sure. Okay. Well, you know, I don't know. Maybe we could explain more things to you or maybe you can explain more things to us. But maybe we should keep talking to you. I particularly don't believe that you have this life summary that you don't believe, you know, you can't remember. My opinion is, you know, I think you're lying about that part. So, and I don't want to keep my going round the round with you and stuff like that. You have sodium pentathol? No, I don't need nothing like that. I mean, I know. I'm willing to take a lie detector or sodium pentathol,

41:45but I wouldn't you wouldn't get anything more. Okay. Okay. But listen to this. Listen to this, not Frank. You're the only guy there. Okay. You sent the uh, and your son. Your son is one year old at that time. You know, there's nobody else that could do anything like this. There was a struggle, you know, with the injuries on here, you could tell that there was a struggle. A struggle didn't last that long. She's only 90 pounds. So can what? Because you know, you're the one that pulled her out of the tub. You know how heavy she is. It doesn't take long to drown somebody's. It just happened, you know, there's wasn't a planned out thing. We don't believe it was a planned out thing. And unless you tell us, okay, I plan this for two days, you know, and you know, it wasn't a planned out thing. No. And you agree with us, what we're looking at is a homicide. You said it

42:46in 2000, and I think you said it earlier today, right? Sure looks that way. So if it obviously didn't do it, and nobody broke in your house, who would be that person that would have committed that? Frank, there's no other person. You're the guy Frank. To a reasonable person. Who do you think did it? There's no other possible person on this earth. Okay. We've established it's probably me. But what is it? What? Well, not probably. It is you. Now, whether you remember it or not, that's the question. And my feeling is particularly and Brian, so is we just believe that you said everything up until the point where this happened. Then all of a sudden, you don't remember anything. And then your memory comes back after that point. Anybody that looks at this like we're looking at it, because we got to report back to what happened here. So I don't care who we tell the story

43:53too. If we tell the story. I don't care who it is. They're going to be like, no way. No way. Talk to him again, you know? That's what people are saying now. In all those reports, all the interviews he did, people are saying, you know, we believe Frank had something to do it. Everybody without knowing all the things. We don't tell these people the facts. So we get all the reports and we let the people tell it just the way it is. Everybody we talk to, including the counselor, you know, the people at Willow Church, Willow Creek, you know, they're all saying, oh man, I think, you know, they're all gathered in a different room at the week and had a meeting talking about the possibility of you killing your wife. And you know what? They're right. You did. I think examining and being there on that day, in these 13 years, I know for a certainty that I have it. There's nothing to point to anybody else in this world living your dead like

44:59committed to this homicide. Other than you, there's nobody else. There's no other reason. There's nobody to do it. I mean, what do you want me to say? Just say what happened. That's what I want you to say. Nothing to my knowledge. Frank, come on. It's not nothing. It's not the idea. Frank, come on. What? What do you mean? We're done with this interview. Now you can either charge me, lock me up. I want to lawyer in the room with me from this point of time. Now you've listened. Now go to your thing. I'm here with SpinQuest where you can play and win from the comfort of your own home with hundreds of slot games and all of the table games you love with real cash prizes. Right now, $30 coin packs are on sale for $10 for new users. It's all at SpinQuest.com. That's S-P-I-N-H-U-E-S-T dot com. SpinQuest is a free to play social casino.

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