#681 - Ex-Counterfeiter Arthur Williams Jr.

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1:04streaming live on Paramount Plus. He was one of the most prolific counterfeiters in America, printing over $10 million in fake currency. He spent 12 years in prison for his crimes, but now he's out and he's telling his story. And what a story it is, man. We're going to hear about it all and we're going to hear about where he's at today. We really got into it. Today's guest is Mr. Art Williams. Yeah, dude, my friends were texting me the full moon about the full moon yesterday. Yeah, it's a partial lunar today. Yeah, well, they're like, go look at the moon, you know? And I feel like it's, I wonder if the moon feels embarrassed because everybody's looking at it at the same time. That's what I start to think, you know?

2:06Like if everybody was looking at me at the same time, like I would just feel so embarrassed, I feel like. Yeah, well, sometimes it feels like that. Yeah. But I look at the moon like a mirror. Yeah. Yeah, reflection, right? Even last night in the room that you got me, hey, that room is dope. I got the dope in city view. Oh, nice. I will talk about like two in the morning and the moon was just looking at me. Hey, oh, that's a peeping time, man. Yeah, it was a peeping army. Yeah, the moon was a peeping time. That's not it. Because the curtains were open, right? And it was just sitting right there looking down. I'm like, whoa, I don't blame it, man. Art Williams, dude, we met in Chicago at the Gibson's restaurant. Yeah, we met at the Viagra Trangle. Yeah, dude. But there we are. Yeah, there we are. But dude, yeah, thanks so much for coming in. So just for our listeners, you don't know. So in a past life, you were a counterfeiter. Yeah, printed money. Printed money. Not for the feds either. No. No, yeah, for yourself, for myself. Yeah, that's what I like, bro. Hey, we need more of that. For sure now, right? Oh, dude, I think especially,

3:06I look at the government just going to print it for themselves. Yeah, well, now they're going digital. They're going to print it through the digital coin, which is even more trippy. Right. And I think, yeah, and we're going to get into some of that. I want to talk about some of those things. Yeah, no, I printed money, man. When the $19,600 bill came out, they said that it was impossible to replicate. And I was about, I don't know, I was probably 24, 25. And so I said, you know, I'm going to replicate it. I think I could. And in my story goes back a little further, because I grew up in the South Side Chicago. Yeah, take me there, like looking back, are you able to see any things that made you think, okay, I'm going to head in this direction kind of? Yeah. Like, was you doing early crime or whatever? I was doing a lot of crimes. Yeah, early. You know, when so when my dad early bird gets the wallet, and that's true though, well, we get the coins, because I'd hit the meters. Yeah, the meters on the side of the hostage street. So that was like my first crime when my dad left us. My mom was, she dealt with mental illness. She was diagnosed bipolar. So she, you know, she had to take lithium,

4:06you know, and she didn't take it. You know, well, once a year, she would go into the hospital, right? And they'd have to get the levels back up and they put us in foster home. Right. So my youth growing. So when my dad took off and we ended up homeless, and then ended up in the projects on the south side, right by White Sox Park, you know, it was, I remember, because you know, you're on, my mom was on welfare. She wasn't working. For us, it was, I came home from school. It was cold. I come into the house and my mom's in the kitchen, smoking. And what, she smoked them do rals or whatever? She used to roll her own. Yeah. My mom used to buy big bags at tobacco. She'd be there all day in midwestern. She's a hard worker. Oh, yeah. No, my mom just rolled. But she was there smoking and she was crying. And she got, and I asked why she was crying. She said, we have no food in the house. So I opened up the fridge and it was empty, right? I was about 12 at that time. We had probably been living there almost maybe like nine months to a year. So I've already got a taste of the street, you know?

5:07And so I grabbed my brother, my little brother, we ran outside and while I'm walking down Hausses Street and I was right on 31st and Hausses. That's where the projects that I grew up in. So that's like south side, they called the low end. Okay. But anything like under 55th is like the low end. These are just all Chicago street terms. I'm telling you right now, right? Yeah. Maybe I'll take you over there one day. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's cool. So anyway, yeah. So that was, so we're hitting the, I'm hitting the meters, walking down Hausses and I'm hitting the meters, but as I'm an angry kid, not thinking about, you know? Like, I don't know what to do. But as I'm hitting them, I can hear the change ringing. And so I figured there was money in there. So you're just walking down the street, hitting them with a stack or something? No, but my fist. Oh, just, you know, how you just, you know, hitting it, everyone, because there's a meter like every 20 feet, right? For sure. So I'm just cracking it, you know? Just like this little kid, man, you know? Yeah. But then I start here with the jingling, jingling, jingling, jingling, you know? Like, it's money, right? You're being like the little thing goes off. And so I start playing with it. So this is, with this is what God gave me. The gift He gave me is to figure things out.

6:08Okay. Puzzles, money, meters, you know, right? Whatever's going on, you're going to figure it out. Art, right? Whatever, whatever it is, my brain just like, it wants to dissect it, right? Just, but early on, it was just the meter. I wanted to get it to the meter, right? So, so I went to the alley. I made, I made this little metal piece that allowed me to, to, to twist the little pins or two little pins on it. And if you could get them to go straight up, you could pop it out. And there was always maybe like $10, $15 of quarters in it. So you'd hit like five or six and also you got a hundred and a hundred back then was something. Yeah, it's a lot of money. I still love a hundred. I like the hundreds, I know for a man. Yeah, it's a hundred. Yeah. But so, so we hit it, we hit it for like me and my bro hit for like 87. We went to Tony's supermarket and me and my, me and my bro just just put stuff in rocks, I did, right? Oh, yeah. And we get up there and the big tiny looks down. He's like, you guys got money for kids, yeah? Like, and we had a bag, it was in a bag like a little jewels bag or something. We just, we got money and you look, change, he goes, yeah, that's money, right?

7:08And so he started counting. It was eight, it was like 86 bucks. We get home. This is what was awesome. When we walked in the door, my mom was still, you know, kind of in her depressed mouth, she hadn't really moved that. But when she seen the groceries, she lit up, ran and hugged us. She's like, where'd you get these? She probably thought some church gave it to us or something, you know? Yeah. And I'm like, I'm like, we got him out, you know, she goes, well, I just get the way I said, I have the meters. She's like, well, how'd you get out the meters? I said, we broke into him. She was in that and she was going up to your room right now. So she, her demeanor went from happy to pissed like that, you know, like in heart, like real quick. So me and my brother go upstairs, she comes up after that and she's like, she's like, look, I don't want you stealing from money. God will provide the way I said, God did provide the way he showed me how to open it, right? Because I believe there's divineness in what I do. Like whatever my mind is able to do, there's a created something outside of me that I could tap into that that gives me a force. I call it. Of course, right? I got it.

8:09Well, at that time, do you feel like you were doing it for a good cause too? From my mom, from my brother, from my sister. What are you going to do? Of course. Yeah, man, they got to eat. You know what I'm like, of course. And that started it, right? Then once that happened, it didn't stop. I'd hit the meters whenever I needed it. You know, then then I could start hanging out with the gang. So like in Chicago, the gang violence was real strong at that point. It was like mid 80s, early 90s guns are hitting the street. Right? It went from, it went from like at first it was like dance crews, like breakdancing. Yeah. And so the breakdances turned into the gangs pretty much, right? So you had the breakdancing moments in Chicago and probably New York and now they're probably everywhere. And then when the breakdancing kind of faded out, all those cats turned into Latin kings or disciples or, I mean, GDs have always been there, right? Which GDs. Gangs of Cyples. Okay. Yeah, they've always been before, you know, and all these gangs have been there forever, but the breakdancing when it broke out, that's when a lot of numbers filled it, you know, what do you think caused that breakdancing to kind of dissipate over there? I don't, I don't, I think because they started fighting, right?

9:10So at first it was just like, ah, right? You know, grab my nuts and put it in your face, right? And then they started beefing. And then when they started beefing, you know, physical just always enhances even like wars. Yeah, there's an escalation. There's always escalation with that, man, right? So if it's a, you know, you step on my toe and I smack you in the face and you punch me in my mind and then boom, boom, boom, boom, right? So yeah, that's always a way to do it. Yeah, so anyway, but that's what I think happened. I think, okay, got it. Once said, you know, there's just the beefs and then the guns. That was the thing that really, for me, that sticks to my memory harsher than anything, because I've been shot. And I've had friends killed. One right right there, you know, got shot in the head. With you? Yeah, we were all out there and we heard one shot and pulled him in the head and dropped, right? I got hit in the side and were you out there like with the gang? Like, yeah, because you were just out in the streets? Yeah, we all, everyone had their corner. Got it. We had 32nd in Lutwantico. The Italians, they had armor park, 33rd and shields, Latin Kings had 33rd and Morgan. The Spanish chances had 29th and Wallace, right?

10:12Like, and who is your favorite gang looking back? I mean, the one I was with, right? Dave shit. I was a disciple, man. Of course, man. That's a good, but, you know, I ran the streets real hard from breaking in the cars, to garages, to stealing cars, to just, it escalated. So you were in the crime then, that was your thing? Well, it was to survive, right? Like, I didn't, I didn't ever look at like crime in the sense and even when I got older in the sense of like, I imagine that it would make me like a rich drug lord, right? Like, I never had that in my mind that stealing the cars going to get, you know, cause me to have something great. Like, when am I going to have a dealership? Yeah, I'm not going to have dealership, right? Exactly, right? So, so I always fought against wanting to do it, right? Like, and then when the money came though, so I ended up getting in trouble stealing a car. One of my my friends came up to get me, cause they consigned you out at the police station. And on the way back, he was just telling me like, you know, what are you doing, man? You're smart in this. You know, I see how you are and you love your mama and you know, what's going on?

11:14And he brought me into his world. Who was saying this? Uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, older gentleman. Well, I nicknamed him Pete, called Pete Da Vinci, cause, you know, he told me crazy stories about Da Vinci, where Lil Hat, tying guy, okay, got it. So we're walking back, me and Peter walking back. And he's just, you know, telling me he goes, hey, listen, I'm going to take it. I'm going to show you how to make some money and be quiet about it, right? That was the thing. That was the difference about what I was doing. It was loud. The gangs was loud. The guns, the stealing, the breaking windows, right? To get in the cars, right? He wanted to show me how to be quiet and make money. And so for me, with my dad leaving, he was kind of like the first one, the first guy that, like, I felt like a, like a father, you know, like, like a little bit of a fatherhood too, right? Oh, yeah, dude, when you're young, if somebody comes in your life and pays you some attention, or hey, this is another thing, hey, let me show you how to do something. That's a huge thing. I just didn't think it was going to be print money, right? Like I didn't know. Oh, dude, I mean, I hate to say, look, yeah, yeah, yeah. I hate to say, you got lucky. I didn't mean lucky. Some guys are like, let me teach you how to play tennis, you know?

12:15Let me teach you how to touch yourself or whatever. But you got lucky, bro. I did. I did. I really did. And my whole life has been kind of like that too. I get in places that people just don't get into. 100%. I really do. And it's like, DaVinci, hanging with the Kings. I don't know how it happens, man. Besides, I just, oh, okay, you're like, portaled in, you know? And like, here we are in the next chapter of this fairy tale. I love it. I love it. That's what makes life live, though, right? Oh, I agree. Yeah. I think it's so interesting that he's teaching you how to do something quiet, quiet. That's what it was all about, right? And as a counterfeiter, you learn to become a ghost. I mean, even now I'm still a ghost, you know? I still live like that just because it's how I was trained, you know? And um, but yeah, so he takes me to his shop. He had a shop over by our Mar Park. And you know, I had one of the mold elevators that went down into the basement and stuff. And he had his printer over here. He has light burner over here. He had his plate maker over here. Where he did his ink, where he held his paper. I mean, it was just, it was fascinating. There's a kid. I'm like 15, 16, man, you know, like Karen, I am with an old gangster, you know?

13:18And as a kid in that neighborhood, because my neighborhood was, was where Mary Daly was from, right? Bridgeport they call it. Where Mary Daly was from? Yeah, Mary Daly. The old Daly, Richard Daly and all the Daly's. That's that neighborhood, you know, I'm got it. And so you have the Irish on 37th. You have the Italians on 31st. You got the Chinatown over on 22nd. You got Pilsen, which is overall 18th. And then where I lived was like the Hosh Posh of everyone but poor. Right? We were all just poor, right? But there was a little poor rig and a little tie and a little little mud, you know, everything, right? So for a kid in the projects, to make it to the tie inside was huge. That was like, that was like a hand up, man. Yeah. You know, like that's what everybody wanted. You know, you didn't want to be a car thief, right? You know, you didn't want to, you wanted to be with them, because you know what they did. Yeah, they had at least where they were organized. They were organized, man. And so for me to be in the projects and be pulled out of it, right? That was like winning a lottery, man. You know, it's like winning a lottery. So, you know, he took me in, he started showing me, you know, I would help carry the car.

14:18But he was old. So he needed someone anyway, because the papers have he ink cans, the, you know, have to move into equipment around. You got to keep everything clean, right? It's constant. And that ink is shit, man. I've had it on my hand and then went and took a piss, and man, I'm burning my piece, you know? Really? Oh, that was crazy. Yeah, my paint, it was like green for like a week. And it wasn't gone to real. But it's he was ink. Yeah, it's not. But it's getting darker. You know, it's like, when some of the, so, I did, man, it was, you know, look, yeah. So, what was some of the machinery that Pete was using to make, to counterfeit? So at that time, it was still the little, little face 100, right? There was a time when the hundred had a tiny face on it, right? Okay. We're going way back 1985. So those were the ones he made. And they were, and they were a lot easier because there was no water, watermark, there was no shifting ink. There was, you just, just a visual. Okay. And so he was making notes and he was using the old offset technology. So he had a ABDIC, he had ABDIC, uh, two color, right? What is that ABDIC two color to paint? No, it's a press. It's a pretty press.

15:18Okay. It's, yeah, I got to send you a picture. They're awesome, man. They're like, we'll bring one up right here. It's called ABDIC. Yeah, look at like a two color ABDIC. Yeah, there you go, right? And so, so that's what he used. Wow. And that looks kind of advanced for the times, huh? Well, I mean, it was an offset press. Ben Franklin invented the press. That. Like, look at Ben Franklin's press, his first one. Yeah, Ben Franklin's first press. He's the one who invented it. Ben Franklin invented all kinds of things. So there was different machines. You asked about the machines. So you had a machine to take a photo, right? You would take, put the bill up there. You take a photo of it, right? Then take it down. Then there was another machine. It was, uh, it made the, the negatives, right? So you would go and you'd make the negatives with the bill. And we would always do three bills, right? Cause these offsets, um, they, they were, they were best, like eight and a half by 11 paper. And you would take the photos of the bill of the bill of a real bill, of a real bill. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And then we would take it and we put it into a negative form, and you know, put through the machine that makes the negative.

16:19And then we, that's when you do your serial numbers. We take this red tape and we, we knock out the serial numbers. And that, because that was one of the hardest things to change, right? Cause the numbers is what get people caught back in the old days, right? So you, you, you, you, you'd mark out the numbers and then you'd make the plate, you'd burn, you'd put the negative in the machine and burn the plate. Then you put the plate onto the press and then you make the ink and then you run your paper, right? Like it's fascinating. I love it. I, I, I really do. I love it. Well, it's a piece of art. Yeah. And I still got a press, you know, and I sit there and I lay next to it and reminisce. Yeah. But nevertheless, yeah, I'll show it to you one day. But so, yeah, so, so that, that's that process. But with me, what happened? And just interrupt you real quick. How long do that process take? Well, for him, he could do it quick. So I had to learn because he'd ever let me do some of the things. Like he'd ever let me like take the photos and he didn't let me, you know, burn the plates. I would be there. I would move stuff for him or be cleaning. But there was a lot of things I didn't get to do. But because I got to see what he used, I replicated that part first.

17:20So when the bill came out, I went back and started thinking about all the things that he was doing. You mean when the 1996 one, yeah, $100 bill came out? When that came out. Because that bill came out and they said that it was unable to be duplicated, is that right? To duplicate. Yeah, they said that all the security features. There was a watermark, a strip, fluorescence on it. There were a shifting ink. There was micro printing. You got the mornay. So there's a more ray, which if you try to scan it and a present scanner, the lines around his head will get real wavy. Right. There's all kinds of neat things in there. Oh, really? So if you try to scan that and like just a scanner to like scan it over to just even send a picture to somebody, the lines get wavy in his head. The lines get wavy in his head. It's called a more ray, right? Interesting. Yeah, no, there's a lot of cool things on it. It says here, six features. Yeah, watermark, a second faint image of Benjamin Franklin to the right of the portrait visible when held to light embedded security thread, a vertical strip embedded in the paper visible when held to light. It reads USA 100.

18:20I remember when that came out, bro, UV reactive thread under ultraviolet light, the security thread glows red. So that's when you take the money to strip club and you throw it at the girl and the the line of glow yellow, red or green, right? Got it. Whatever denomination it is, you wanted to grow. I would want it to glow red, right? Red was the 100. It was. Oh, I didn't want it to glow. What was green ones? Oh, what? No, I think that's 20s, I think. Okay, I'll do 20s. You can do 20s. Help the ladies out. Yeah. Ultraviolet light, the security thread glows red, color shifting ink, the 100 in the lower right front corner shifts from green to black as you tilt it. And now the now it's purple to gold. Got it. No one micro printing. Micro printing tiny USA 100 printing included on Franklin's lapel and in the lower left numeral area. And then fine line concentric line printing, intricate lines around the portrait and on their reverse that ordinary copier struggle to reproduce accurately. Exactly. The ordinary copier is it makes it like wavy. Got it. But listen to this one.

19:20Read that next line. The 1996 note does not have the blue 3D security ribbon or the color changing bell in the ink well. Those arrived on the redesign 100 dollar note introduced later in 2015. You know why that bill was made? Because I mean, I'm sitting next to them. It's called visual physics. Right. You know, it's so funny. They let the bill out right when I got out of prison. Oh, I thought they were trying to rub it in my face. You did it on purpose. Oh, yeah, they had to because it was supposed to come out in 13. Or no, it was supposed to come out like 11 or 10. It's summer around there. I got out in 13, 2013. But I'm watching it in the paper there. I'm reading the paper and Matt, you know, this new bill coming out right. And then when I got out and I seen that purple line, I just went nuts. I'm like, what's so what happened is they wrote a book about me called The Art of Making Money. Like way back, it was like 2005. And so you and then they put me in Rolling Stone magazine, called me the best counterfeit or ever. Really? Yeah, it was awesome, right? I mean, I went to prison for seven years. So it wasn't too awesome. But it was still cool that I got recorded, you know.

20:22Yeah. And uh, but then everyone wanted to be like me. So you start having guys in California reading the book. Now granted, I only, there was 12 steps to the whole thing. I only gave them like five, right? And so I did for one, I would never give my recipe to anybody. To how to counterfeit that. But when I was doing the book, I was like, you know, if I give these five, even if they tried to do it, it would have come out like mine, right? Because I don't want a bunch of people make a money like me, and then I'm getting in trouble, right? So I just left a lot of parts out, but a lot of people tried and started creating their own money. Did anybody ever reach out to you and say, hey, do you want to get back in the game? Well, they do now on my Facebook and Instagram, man. You know, like I get a little weirded out, you know, because I get that happens all the time, all the time. Have you ever just even met up with somebody just to see what it was like? Like, what's this person even talking about? No, no, no. If somebody comes at me like that now, like I'm an artist, like a great life band, you know what I'm saying? Like, and even back then, man, I'd probably trunk them, right? Just for coming to me without knowing me, right? Yeah. So like anyway, yeah, my neighborhood, we trunked them. They would trunk people, not me.

21:23They'd put them in a trunk. Yeah, put them in a trunk. But anyway, okay, so take me back to your working with Pete. Yeah. Are you able to learn Pete's method or what happens there? So, so when the time I was with him, like I said, mostly I was just moving things for him, learning how to make things. He didn't ever let me do any of the real heavy stuff, like the brain work, right? Okay, got it. So I got to watch his, what he did, you know, that's how I learned what he, you know, I'd watch him do the plates. I'd watch him do the photography. I'd watch him, you know, mix his inks, right? How he'd weigh it, right? He'd put the ink on the little scale, like drugs, right? Oh, so you had to have a certain amount of ink on the bill. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, he had to, yeah, everything. Even the bill had to weigh a gram, right? Because the drug deal is like the way money. But nevertheless, so, but then Pete, God, I want a gram. Yeah, so anyway, for like, you know, we did, I stayed around for about nine months to a year and then he ended up disappearing. He was gone, never came into the diner no more. Wasn't at the shop, you know? And in my neighborhood, that happened to people. Do you know what happened to him? No, no, I don't, I don't. I just, he just never came back, you know,

22:24if he had a guess what happened and what do you think happened? Well, I hope he got away. Like, that's what I think. Oh, you think somebody might have been on him a bit? Oh, well, that's in that, in that world back then, especially, man, like people in my neighborhood disappeared. That, that really happened. There was, you know, but did you see Pete being paranoid about stuff? Like, did he also have some like things that he had done? Like were there things he set up at his place or his house to like? So, so one thing about counterfeiters that that that that he did, not, so not only did he, did I get to see what he did, but we talked a lot, right? I mean, I was the coolest thing I think about the whole experience is just getting, getting to hear his thoughts on different things, which expanded mine, right? Which made me grow, right? You know, so it was more than just learning how to print money, but it was actually learning how to use my mind, because up until that point, I had it, you know? And, and so when, when he, when he did disappear, like it, it was hard on me, man, you know, I'd go over there, I'd be looking in the window, see any fees around, you know, and you never heard from him again? No, no, no. And so the thing about a counterfeiter is the biggest thing is they teach you how to be quiet.

23:25They teach you how to disappear. They teach you how to not exist. They teach you how to, you know, that's the thing that was so awesome when I later down the road became a master at it, is I could, I could go anywhere. I could go to Florida. I could go to New York. I could go to LA. I could go to any country and quietly go somewhere and not know anybody and talk to anybody and produce money. It was the most, it was the most liberating feeling you can have to have that ability to walk in with, with blank paper and then turn it into, to suitcase, cash. But, but you learn how to do it quietly. Right. And so for him, when he disappeared, in my mind, I'm thinking, you know, he had to go, right? That, that he hates on him, right? And, and, and boom, he's gone, right? I didn't want to think he was dead, even though like that's a highly, that's a possibility too, because, you know, here's the thing, like whenever you're dealing with large amounts of money, every, it's not like the movies, man. You get over 50,000, you get over 100,000, you're licensed danger. Yeah.

24:25Okay. They don't need to be 500,000. It don't need to be a million. I've seen people get killed for 5,000. So, so in that world, you're literally printing like, I, so you asked if people have tried to get me to do money while I'm free. No, because I don't even entertain it. Right. Right. But on the streets, yeah, there were times where, where there were different, you know, crews that would hear about me. And then they literally look at you like a printing press. Right. You, this guy's ATM. Yeah. Yeah. This is an ATM, man. So, so that was the thing that I had to watch for went back on the day, you know, and that's scary. And that's why you have to be a ghost. That's, that's why you have to be a ghost because you can't be predictable. You can't, I never, even now nobody knows where I live, man. Like, I don't let, wherever I lay my head, man, it's top secret, top secret. Even my gallery, you know, by appointment only, Dorsey and Open, can't come in there. Paramount Plus is your streaming home for the NFL on CBS. All season long. That's right, football fans. Stream your live local CBS games on Paramount Plus every NFL Sunday.

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28:42That's F-O-R the people dot com slash Theo or dial pound law pound 529. This is a paid advertisement. So just to do a timeline recap, so you grow up in this neighborhood in Chicago. It's a hectic environment. You get into stuff on the streets. You guys are out there kind of banging and stealing that kind of petty crime stuff. Maybe a little bit aggressive. You meet Pete. You go under his wing as this sort of not exactly an apprentice, but you're there with him all the time. It's helper. Yeah. It's helper. You're watching. You're seeing what he's doing. And also he's having conversations with you that are helping you elevate and expand. That's how you even think about the world. Mentally. Okay. And now Pete disappears and you're back out on the streets and you guys start getting into some heavier stuff. Pete, yeah. Like, you know, when he, when he left, I went back actually when, when that whole situation he took off, I went back to the streets. I started getting into the gangs and I started getting into, you know, just some real heavy shit, you know.

29:42And we started robbing drug dealers. We dress up like cops. We had the cop cars, you know, like I said, the drug dealing was a real big thing. So I didn't like to sell drugs. Like I had a lot of friends that did, but I didn't like to see what it did to people. You know, that's why I like the counterfeiting, right? Because it was like, I didn't feel like I was really hurting anyone, you know? I'm not stealing. I don't like to steal in the drug part. Like I seen what it did, but, but we would, so we would start robbing them. Right? And one of my dudes, he, like, my son, so my, my first son, his mom's a cop, right? So like, and yeah, right. That's a whole another lane, but we won't go down that one. But it allowed, you know, a lot of my guys, we had friends that were cops, so we could get uniforms, we could get badges, you know, I always loved the cop car. And I had a nice one, right? I always had a real nice one. Like, and I loved it because I could move through see I'd wear glasses and, you know, make my hair to the side and I look like a cop, you know? And yeah, but we started, you know, we'd start robbing the drug dealers. The ones like out in the suburbs, we want basically what would happen.

30:44These guys from the suburbs would come in and they'd like to hang out at the club's downtown. And they want to flash their money to the girls. We'd have girls that were working for us. So we'd have girls in those clubs and be like, Hey, this guy that he's doing this, this and that. I'm like, okay, cool. And she wouldn't sleep with them, but she'd go home with them, become friends, hang out with them, finesse them. And then we'd come and, right? And we'd be like, we'd have fest on guns, like, like legit, like dress like cops. Like, yeah, but yeah, no, and we did that. And then it got dangerous. It did start getting dangerous because we started getting stupid. Like, you know, at first it was, and that's how you're like a police ball or whatever. Like, I mean, how stupid you guys get. Well, that's stupid. Like that. We're gonna play a softball against the fire department or something like what you guys do. Yeah, no, no, no, but we were like robbing more dangerous elements. Okay, got it. So it escalated. It escalated. Like all crime. Right? Like all crime escalates. You go from, oh, we're gonna hit these white suburban kids from out there. They think they're cool.

31:44And now we get our balls so big. And we're like, oh, we're gonna hit that cat on 18th street that got 10 guns around them. Oh, yeah. Right? So you go from like, you know, it's just escalated. It's escalation ladder. And then I got shot. I got shot in my side. And then, and there was a lot of things that happened that caused me to go to my next face. Okay. Got it. But we did for that little brief, you know, there was, I guess, for about three years, maybe I was just running hard on the street, you know, who shot you? Latin King. Latin King shot me. Try to kill me. Yeah. And did he spare your life? No, hell no. Yeah, he tried to kill me. Yeah. No, I was walking home from a party like two in the morning. I walked through a basketball court. And I hear two guys behind me. I looked, they got handkerchiefs on. And I thought it was my dudes from the party. And so I'm like, hey, man, take the handkerchiefs off, man. You know, you're getting me nervous. And they're like getting you nervous and boom, they pulled out the pistols and just started just boom, boom, boom, boom. I turned around, I took off run and put my head between my legs.

32:46I could feel the bullets just, see, see, see, see, see, see. Right. And then I got hit and I fell to the ground right as I was almost around the corner from the project, you know, I got hit and I stayed on, when I hit the ground, I was just going to stay on the ground and figure they thought they killed me and they take off. And but when I hit the ground, I looked back, they were running up on me. They were going to try to dome shot me. Yeah. You know, and something real spiritual happened at that moment. Like I felt something grabbed me from underneath my armpits, you know, and just kind of like lift me off the ground and I ran like five blocks to 31st and Halston. I was on 32nd and was you leaking too? I was leaking. Yeah. You plug it up. Did you plug up the wound with like a, there was a Chicago Tribune guy that was helping me. He might have put a newspaper in there or something. I had to put a newspaper on me. Well, I didn't even know. I didn't even like feel it. It was weird because when I got to 31st and I sat down on the bus stop, and I'm like feeling myself, you know, you're all like shaking stuff.

33:48And then I stood back up and I could feel like something on my side. When I grabbed it, it was just all red and just blood. And I told the Chicago Subtained guy, I said, hey, man, I've been hit, man, called ambulance. Yeah. Yeah. So then he was delivering papers. Yeah, delivering papers. Yeah. I was like three in the morning. But after that, that's what I went to Texas. You know, I was like, my mom was like, man, you got to go. You know, I've already had it at that point, like six of my friends murdered. You know, I'm only like 18 or 19 years old, you know. So shit was getting hot down there, huh? Well, the South Side was dangerous back then, man. Like I said, guns hit the street, man. It seemed like everyone had one. They were called Larson's LLA RS. I mean, it's just for the type of gun. Yeah. Like right around 90, I'd say like 92, 93. Man, everyone had these things. It was a 22 or 25 and a 380. They were, yeah, they were like that. The little guns. They were real tiny, like that. 22. That's what we had. Oh, that's it. Yeah, that's it. Those things flooded the streets, man. They're a little grocery gather. You think?

34:49Yeah, they were a little tiny, man. But 22, 25, 380. And you get them for 50 bucks. It's almost like they dumped them on the street. And then that's, and it just, so it went from, you know, fighting and bats and, you know, like the old school type to get real shit, double dragon shit. Double dragon shit. Yeah, to like everyone having these little peace shooters that killed. That's crazy. I wouldn't be surprised. But I lost six of my friends during that time. And so I went to Texas. My mom said, let's get out of here. So I ended up going down to Texas. And when you get down to Texas, is that where your kind of fitting journey kind of continues? Yeah. Yeah. So when I went down there, of course, I'm trying to get away from the gang violence. And, but I'm still me. You know, I'm still a criminal, right? And so I go down there. I start getting with the wrong crowd. I get into a little trouble. I go to prison for like two years and in the Texas prison. Those Texas prisons were rough too, man. Wow. It was crazy. I thought I was in hell. But when I got out, my girl Natalie, she picked me up and she took me to a hotel.

35:51We did the whole, you know, the whole prison release freedom party, right? Oh, yes, sex. Yeah, sex anyway. And then we went to the first place I wanted to go was to the bookstore. Because I read a lot. I read thousands of books, right? And so I wanted to brew sleepbook and so she wanted to get me the brew sleep book. So we go to the bookstore and she buy it. We were buying the book and she pays with a hundred. The new hundred. I hadn't seen it yet. Right? Because I was in prison. And I'm watching. And she pays it. And the lady just pulls out a pen and marks it and then puts it in drawer. And I'm looking. I'm like, man, I'm already I'm thinking like she didn't even look at the hundred. But she just used the marker. Yeah. And I had just used the marker and that was entrusted fully. And I'm thinking in my mind, I'm like, man, if somebody figured this part out, man, you could have a run, right? And that's where it started, right? I just got to beat the marker. Just got to beat the marker, right? That's the only thing on my mind. I just got to beat that because nobody's looking at it. And that's where the quest began, you know?

36:53And I'm not even out of prison like a couple days. And here I am already thinking about the next crime. That's what so, like the criminal mind could be so like obsessive and addictive, you know? Like it really can't be. I mean, that's kind of an addiction. Oh, for sure, right? Especially print money. Like the smell of ink even now gets me aroused, you know? Like anyway, I mean, I might be using a different word, but it makes me like get goosebumps, you know? Yeah. Yeah, the smell of like old candy ink when you open it. So anyway, so we start, we start the journey. And again, here's one of those moments where I just, you know, I got a little bit blessed or luckier, star fell on my head or whatever is, is Nali was one of the first that was in the tech, right? When the computers were coming out, the internet was only in like the, the libraries and the universities, right? So I would use the internet that time, I'd go into the library to look up how they made money. I could go on to the treasury site and they had like educational videos on how they put

37:56the money through each step. Now, it was fascinating. Yeah, you're lying. No, it was, yeah, you could still go. I bet you could still probably look up how they, how the treasury makes money and they'll have videos. But we're, this is early, the videos were slow, but you could see it, right? And that's when I thought about my, about Pete, right? About the offset press, right? And then like I said, I got a little lucky because Nali was a computer genius at the time, right? She was working for, for a tech company to, that, you know, they were calling this before, you know, other countries took all the, you know, the calling jobs, right? And, and so what I did is I combined the old technology and then the new technology together. So I created a hybrid, right? Did you get to have a conversation with her like, hey, babe, this is what I'm going to do? Or it's slowly led there, right? Like first, I'm just trying to just figure it out in my head how this could be done. Yeah, like how do you like ease her into it? Like just like you're sitting on the couch and be like, which, which we, which we had a couple of hundreds? No, I didn't ease her into, I mean, a little bit of an easement, but she was ready to go

38:58to like she was fascinated how I was thinking, right? Because I'm telling her about when I was young and when I got to learn how to use the old printing presses and then she's telling me about how she's like a technician for all the new stuff and that's a good point. She's already smashing criminals. So it's like, what are we even talking about? Yeah. So anyway, she, me and her have it up, we, we start to come and form this thing. The first thing we had to do was figure out the paper, right? You can't, you know, I know how I could get the press. I'm looking up, you know, where to get presses, we're calling places. So we, we could almost get everything we need from the ink to the printers. The printers were new. So they didn't have none of the secret service software in them, right? The Photoshop was new. All the stuff was new. So that's why credit cards scammed shot through the roof. That's why checks shot through the roof. People were doing corporate checks because all this equipment that was coming out, there was no safeguards on it. Oh, it was awesome. It wasn't tested. They hadn't really thought that people were going to use this for this. Yeah. Well, we were using the magnet, they had magnetic printers.

39:58You could print the magnetic checks. Like that was like 96, 97, probably looked that up. I betcha fraud went through the roof, right? Because you were able to use these machines, you know? And we used them well. We, you know, she, she started looking at how to, one of the first things we did was change the Photoshop program where it wouldn't, like, if you scanned the hundred, it had something in there where it would, um, in 1996 financial institutions faced a dramatic surge in check and credit card fraud. Yeah, right. That's what happened. Very bad. I was part of it. I raised my hand. Yeah. I was part of it. But driven primarily by the transition into the early digital era and the rapid adoption of desktop publishing technology. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. So you wanted to get that out there. But you were talking about the paper. Yeah. So the paper was the first thing we had to figure out. We could figure out all the other things, the printing, the technology, this, but if you don't get the paper right, it's, it's, it's worked. It's useless, right? Because you had to beat the pen, right? That was the first test that led us there, right? It was the pen. And the paper is what beats the pen.

40:58Yeah. It was the pH in the paper, right? Okay. The paper is like a, it's a neutral, right? It's, there's no acid. So paper goes from like acidic levels. And so the money paper is like almost like a zero, right? It's really hard to get it at that, I suppose. I don't make paper. But as I learned how to do this, I learned that paper has these different levels on it. And so the pen reacts with that with the acidic level. If it's not neutral, then what happens? It turns black. Like a dark brown. Okay. So that's like you see at the bank or at some, like some like, when you go to the store, you go to the newspapers and stuff, they do that some time. Yeah, they do the, do the pen back. And if it's real, it'll turn like a light yellow, right? Got it. It's like a light yellow. Okay. Beautiful color, light that color. But so here it is, we're trying to figure out this paper and we're ordering paper from everywhere, but like back in the day, in the yellow pages, again, the internet's only in the libraries and the universities. So you still had yellow pages back then. So here we are going to this paper company, this paper company, we're ordering, getting samples. She's market it, market it, market it, market it. We're going on and on with this.

41:59Finally, I'm losing. I'm thinking we're not going to be able to pull it off. And so I'm getting a little upset with her. I'm arguing with her that we're not doing something right. So she starts screaming back at me and she's waving the yellow pages at me. You fucker, you're a fucking run of me and ragged like I was really running the girl hard to, right? And she slammed it down and she was, nothing works. And she marked the yellow pages and she just, she started, she was, she was, I can't believe this can't be. And I'm like, huh, what's going on? Because I still don't know. And she hit it again and again. She was, she looks up, she goes, this whole time, we've been looking for the paper and this is it, Art. Come here. And I go over there. What the fuck? It marked. I got nervous. When I seen it go yellow, I got so nervous because I didn't have to do nothing to it. Bro, up until this point, I even started trying to get it. I was trying to put acid on the paper. I almost burned the house down like real ass, so I put acid in aluminum. Don't ever do that, right? Yeah. Don't do it. Okay. But I was trying to do all kinds of dumb things, right?

43:00So you're trying all different papers. I mean, you, all different papers and I'll hear the whole time. It's the freaking yellow pages that is like one of the most widely used paper in the whole world. Like what's that different paper? Cotton. Slinens. Different poundage. Twenties. Paper. Paper's weight, right? Like, yeah, you got 20 pounds there. Like, like, school paper would probably be like a 26 pound, 32 pound, right? Your print papers, like 32. Yeah. What I needed was 18, right? So it was real thin, right? And this is what happened. This is what made this so amazing. So here I was looking for the paper that I can mark, you know, mark, right? Now this gave me, it solved a bunch of things because I needed to solve the watermark and I needed to solve the strip, right? And then the strip is fluorescent. So now I got to figure out how to make the strip fluorescent, but I got to put all these things in the paper with the yellow pages because it was so thin, it allowed me to press two of them together.

44:01It was awesome, right? I print three on each side, three fronts, three backs. I'd have my strips in my watermarks. I'd have a light table and I would have all the stuff, just every piece laid out and I would just lay, it was all hand done. That's the one thing about my money, right? So like people asked how much I've done and I printed and made a lot, but every single piece was hand done. Wow. Every piece, every one I put that watermark in, every one I laid that strip, every one of them. She'd be standing right next to me, you know? It's a little newborn. Oh, yeah, a little baby, man. It's a piece of art. It really was. And then you press them, but when we found that, you know, when she did that, now we're looking for the paper. She would go to R.R. Donnelly out there in the suburbs of Chicago, say that she was a teacher and she was doing a school project with the kid. Could I get some paper? It did give us a whole roll of it for free. Wow. The whole roll. Like enough to do like a million dollars, right? It was, it was, it was in, and for that of the phone book, the phone book paper, we get it on a butt roll. Right?

45:02Wow. So after they're done printing the, the phone books, they would have these butt rolls that would have like that much left on it or something, man. And they would just, and so she'd come out of there with free paper, like, look at me, man, I would load that shit up. And, and then we would caught it and then we, we prepped it. We had to do a lot to it because so when we started to try to run it through the, the ink chats, it couldn't match the colors, right? So at first, I wanted to just run it off the ink chat, the printer, the printers, you know, the norah printers. But you could get like the serial numbers really good. You could get the seals really good. You could get certain made the back sometimes, the right ones, the early days, you could get good. But the actual color of money you can never match, ever. I don't, I don't give shit how good you were. I mean, again, again, here we go. Now we got the paper. Now it's time to do the files, right? But you think you'd be able to figure out the color, right? I mean, the color with a computer, you don't control it. The computer that uses the pantone. So it's a pantone color. I see. Right?

46:02So it wasn't really exactly up to you. I mean, if you're printed, if you're using an ink chat, it's only going to have so many variations. You're going to adjust it. And so like with money, you're trying to create something that is the most powerful tool in the world. And money has a feel. It has a look. It has like a greenish cream color to it. And even though it looks very simple, it's still very powerful. Right? That bill is. And so if you're printing like the way that I did it is I did every layer like they did. When I went to their website and I watched how they did it, what the first thing I learned was they did every single image by itself. Right? That's what made my money so good. That's what separated me from all the other counterfeiters before me and most definitely all of them behind me. I like to do one thing at a time. If you try to do everything at one time, which a lot of the counterfeiters did, you're always going to get one or two or three of the assets off.

47:06Because the face and the weave around it, which is micro printing or the seals or the numbers, there's so many different things that you got to print. And if you try to print them all at once, it's going to be impossible to match all of them. And if you only get one or two off, you could tell. You could tell right away. Right? Every one of them has to be perfect if you want to really fool the world with the money. Right? So you go about doing one and then doing the next one with a printer. Were you still using the printer? Are you putting a kevass on that? Well, no, that's when it advanced to bringing back Pete's technology with the offset because it allowed me to mix my own ink. Got it. Right? So what I needed to figure out was how to color this paper. Right? And that was one of the hardest things. It's so trippy when I think back on it. Because on the scale, the amount of paint that I used for a run was like an eyedrop. Right? To get that light, light, light green, creamy look was one of the hardest colors to match. I mean, a run means one bill or how many bills?

48:07It's just one run through, right? Like so, so what I asked you to say and how many times you have to run through to get a bill correct? So for the registry, so I'm going to give you some printing knowledge, right? So, so what made my bills, what, what allowed me to be able to run, keep running it through is the registration. Like on a printer, you got that little thing that moves to the side, right? For the paper, like if you change the paper size, right? If you have eight and half by eleven, there's a little thing. Yeah, a little gauge. It's like, okay, you put, you move that to the side of it to kind of keep it right there. That's called registration, okay? Keeps the paper straight where it goes into the computer perfect. Same thing on an offset press, you have a registration. Little bit harder to work with on that though, right? You've got to be really lined up because that paper is flying through that thing, right? Where is the printer's like, right? Right? Offset presses. Right? It's just shooting it out really fast. So that registration, but I was able to get the registration pretty much perfect every time, you know, just being patient with it, right?

49:08Not trying to force it. And so the first thing I would do is run the paper through the offset press. So this is what I could bind it to. I seen that the inkjet couldn't print the background. It was impossible. And so I said, okay, let me, let me get a printing press and let me go do the old way. You know, one of Pete's. Yeah, one of Pete's. And we'll use Natalie's way with the serial numbers and the seals. It worked really good for the serial numbers because I could change every single one of them, right? And the seals it matched really close, right? But with the printing press, I wanted it to color and the weave and the face. I wanted that face to be perfect. Yeah. Because, you know, if you try to scan the bill, it would create this little wavy thing around the head and it just looked nasty, right? That was one of the security features. It's called a Moray and they didn't even list it up there, but that's one of them. With the printing press, I get to shoot my own, I get to take a picture of it, right? And so when I went back to that, that's when the bills went like from here to here, right? Because now I'm really making it like the feds are making it just at a very small, you

50:09know, small scale, right? Yeah. And the first thing I would do is I would, we would cut the paper and we'd have to put it on a carrier paper, which was a thicker paper because that 18 pound was so skinny that it would jam the big press. Oh, that makes sense. Yeah. You put in a phone book paper through a printer, it's not going to make it. It would just just tear it up. So we'd have to put that on a piece of paper, thicker and then take the sides. Funny story. I had a whole senior citizen living place put in paper on paper for me, like 50 boxes, really? Yeah, we were doing, yeah, we were about to do a big run. And so I asked my boy to Greek, I said, man, I got to get all this paper put on. And he's like, how many by like 50 boxes? He's like, dude, that's great. And he was remodeling a senior citizen home. And he's like, well, that's what dog he was the senior citizen home that I'm doing some work on. They play in the game room all the time. Maybe I asked them, it goes, there ain't no money on it. I'm like, no, no, there ain't no money on it. I just need one piece of paper placed on another and taped the two sides. So we asked the head of the, you know, the senior citizen.

51:12And I had, before you know it, I had like 20 old people doing it. We were doing a contest. I was paying on 50 bucks a day. And they don't even know that. They don't know it's going to get printed into money. Yeah, they were having all these, it was awesome. But they had fun. They were glad. They had fun for sure. They did, they did contest. For sure they were laughing. They were like, do the most. I would give a bonus. Well, who could do the most? Are they would all come out? But they had no idea they were helping you counterfeit. Not at all. Not one bit. And we got it done like that. It was so awesome. Yeah, that was fun. Anyway, so yeah, the paper we'd run it through, we'd do the background. Then we would do the weave in the face. And then we would run it through the new technology and we would do the serial numbers in the seals. And then that little hundred. And then even that with the, with the shifting ink, this is what was the coolest thing. I think what, what me creating this bill was how I was able to take just your common things, right? Like take car paint and use it for the shifting ink. Right. It was car paint. But I was able to alter it.

52:13Well, not at all. It was the same company that made it for the feds, right? I mean, it wasn't too smart of them, right? You know, how do you find out that they made it for the feds? Through their patent number. So I would also look up patent numbers. That's how I figured out the counter machine and the banks. So I was, I'm like a scientist of stuff, man. I'm always trying to figure things out in what's really nuts is the federal government, man, they give you like the patent office. If you have a patent number, you could go to the patent office and put patent number and it'll tell you, you could make a nuclear bomb if you wanted, I think, actually. It'll tell you everything about it. Tell you everything about it. What has to, right? So if you're trying to file a patent, you got to do a patent search, right? So I got the, my boy's mom worked at the bank and I had her get the patent number off the counter machine. And then I just went and put it in the, you know, patent trademark office and it gave me the whole schematic, man. How I used the magnetic ink for the thread. How it did this? How counted? I mean, I've literally defeated the bill by using their own knowledge. Yeah, it's pretty cool. But, um, wow, dude, dude, I, and I remember whenever we, whenever we met up in Chicago, you told me that, um, yeah, like whenever you made that first bill, it was crazy.

53:17The feeling was like really overwhelming because, um, it was scary. It was, I mean, I don't get scared much, but it put a, it put a level of fear in me. Like what did I just do? You know, like I, you know, because I'm from the streets and I, and I, and I've seen people get hurt. I've seen people do really well, but money can cause a lot of things, you know? Oh, yeah. So for me, I'm sitting here like the, the, the first thing that came to mind is be a secret to this possible. Don't let anybody know. Like, I didn't want to tell nobody, right? So it wasn't, you know, sometimes you do something that, that you're so proud of that you, you want to go show your mama. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I didn't want to show my mama this one. Wow. Like, I didn't want to show nobody, man. I, and, and I got nervous. I'm like, man, they're killers. They'll kill us. I told, I actually told them they'll kill us for this, man. Like, this is their power. And we're, and we're learning how to create it out of freaking yellow pages. Yeah.

54:17You know, like, I can't imagine. Yeah, it's ridiculous, you know? And so, and so now you can make money. Yeah. Right? How long does it take to you to make like a decent amount of money? And then what do you decide you're going to start doing? And what do you start spending it on? Well, again, crime escalates, right? So you know, at first it was like, we wanted to just, because I wanted to be secretive about it, we would just drive around the country and just spend it, right? We'd shoot, shoot to the other side of the country, we'd go like Vegas. Like, to the malls, you know, I mean, no, we'd hit it. I probably hit every town in the country. Like, I'm like, back road already, man. I have been on every back road in the street. You were just cruising, it's having a good time. I got like two million miles under me, for sure. Absolutely. On the road driving. Yeah, back then we had that. Let's, you know, so we look at a town. And every town always had like this little mall in it, you know? And Natalie got good, boys. She could hit a mall man beyond the other side of it, spend, you know, almost 15,000 in like an hour and a half. Damn. And we'd be on the road, shoot, gone, you know? And we sometimes, well, we don't, the most we ever did with three in one day.

55:17She was on the road. I don't know if she did a line of cocaine or what, man, but she wouldn't stop. You know if she did a line of cocaine. But let's keep it a go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Keep what she was going. Anyway, so like, yeah, we would hit the road, man. But what happened is, first we started buying things for us. And then before long, you got so much, man, shit don't mean nothing. Like you're almost like, God, I feel like an asshole. All right, I got 150 shirts. Right. Yeah, what are you going to do? Yeah, a lot of pairs of shoes. What are you going to do? Yeah, so then we started getting things for like our family and friends and stuff like that. And were people noticing that you had money for sure? Yeah, but people, you know, here, the thing is, as I always, always looked at as a hustler. Got it. Right? So whether it was robbing drug dealers or like, I mean, we even hit trucks a little bit, you know, our boys and teamster, we'd get shit off the docks, you know, all the time. One time it had like 250,000 condoms. Like everyone in Chicago was wearing one of the condoms. Yeah, yeah. We robbed the truck.

56:17Yeah, got the trucks. Yeah, trucks in Chicago. That was another little hustle we had. You know, I had big razors. I had, I had, I've had everything, you know. But anyway, back to the money. Yeah, how were you spending it? So we, so we started buying stuff for like our families and friends, you know? But then that, that even kind of got to the point where like people started expecting things. Yeah. Like, you know, like you'd come into town and like they would like always looking what's, what's it got me now, right? You know, and if you didn't, there'd be like an attitude or something, you know? So like, that's when I stepped away from that. And then we just started buying things for kids, right? I grew up poor, grew up in the projects. You know, we were at the Salvation Army shelter home, you know? And so there's a Salvation Army box in every town. Yeah. I would just tell, tell Natalie, listen, just get diapers, baby clothes, baby shoes, baby toys. Let's go drop them off. And then we'll just drop them off. And that was like, that was like one of the coolest times of my life. That's the most fulfilling. They say, they say I did it by my therapist said when I was in prison, I did it to like cover

57:19up my crime. But for me, it really, I loved helping people, man. It was awesome. What made it one of the best times of your life? Well, because I just do, because it wasn't even just the Salvation Army, but even families. Like, you know, one of Natalie's friends down in Houston was struggling, man. And we just showed up at Christmas and just banned blester kids with, with, with, with brand and toys. They weren't going to have a Christmas, right? And see that, you know, or even like, I'd go to church, man. Like I was, I was so sick with it. I would take 10% out and I'd go to church on Sunday. We hit, we hit the malls Friday in Saturday and I go to church and, and give them 10% walk out, you know? Like, I, I just love doing things like that, you know? So you were used in some of the counterfeit money to go tied. Yeah, you give 10% out of that money. God give God the money. He's the biggest gangster ever, man. Oh, for sure. God give them his, man. Well, you know what, that's the thing about life, right? Like there's, there's, I call it the flow, right? Like when you, when you, when you give, man, it, what you're doing is you're opening yourself up, man, for a lot of good. Yeah.

58:20A lot of good. And you know, and I learned how to do that, even in the toughest times. Like, man, we, when there were times when I was growing up, man, where we didn't have hot water. For two years, we didn't have no hot water. You know how cold it gets in Chicago? Yeah. You're taking a cold shower, you know? Well, it's 30 degrees out. Yeah. Like that shit was rough, you know? But even in that, you found some happiness, man, right? And it's all about the mind, the thought, man, where you, where you're going to be, you know? And so for me, helping these kids, giving back, doing that was like, and I say it's one of the coolest times because even though there was, my mom was mentally ill, you know, my dad was gone. My brother was, you know, I lost my brother to mental illness. He was no longer with us, you know? I lost him two years ago. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I don't know, lay, man, he just, you know, he's gone. But, but he was, he was special. He had a great mind, right? But, you know, so for me, the money at that time, that's what brought me happiness was giving. Right.

59:21And so for it's like, yeah, at least I get to do something for others, right? Yeah. That's a good, I mean, it makes sense, especially if you come from a place where you didn't have much, then you would want to be able to give to others, you know? Did you try to put any money in the bank? No, no, no, I mean, my bank was his forest preserve. Just bury in it? Yeah, I had bury it, man. I'd say I'd stuff it in PVC pipes. Well, first I put it in plastic sealant and put, because PVC doesn't disintegrate, you know? And stuff it in there and then go bury it. I probably still got stuff buried out there. I just don't know where it's at. We go look sometime here, come up there. Hypothetically. Yeah, at least three there's still buried somewhere over there. I just lost the map. Three million thing? Oh, no, I don't know about that. I'd always do like $100,000 tubes, you know? Like just a little ones, you know, put maybe two or three or four tubes in a whole five tubes, you know? But yeah, I did lose some out there, but I really don't know where it's at. And I don't want to find it. That's just, I just need to say that. Did you ever give counterfeit money to people that you knew?

1:00:22Oh, not like purposely, right? You know, like, I like to play with it. One of my favorite things back then, you know, the bombs on street that we have, the little signs will work for food, right? I always give them 100. Yeah. Yeah. Because, you know, they'll go spend it and they were good. I knew that they wouldn't get caught with it, right? And they'd go spend it in a place that I probably would never have gone. Right. So like if it did pop up, hey, is he, you know, what's going on? What happens to places that end up with counterfeit money? Like what happens to say like you go to like a bodega or gas station someplace, you pass a hundred dollar bail on them? What happens to those? So here's things. So like corporate stuff back then, they could just write it off, right? The bank is snatched it. They have to write it off as a loss, right? We'd always try to stay away from like both, you know, I don't want to go hit a mama pop with a bogie's hunter, you know? Because I don't want it to pop up on them in their bank and then they get it. So it was always like, I always try to stay towards the corporation stuff, you know, like the wall greens, the wall markets, okay? You know, I would go to the corner store and spend it on, on, on old lady, you know?

1:01:26Got it. Yeah. But, but the corporations out, you know, now, I mean, I think they changed it to where now they do make them responsible. But back then, because it wasn't so like aggressive, the laws were a little bit lighter. What do you mean it wasn't so aggressive? Well, there was the counterfeiting, it wasn't like a really big crime. Like, there's drug dealers in every city, thousands of them, right? There might be one or two counterfeiters in a city, right? Like the crime was, especially when the new bill did come out, it did defeat a lot of things, you know, a lot of, it put a lot of people out of business, you know, like it did. Yeah. And, you know, and, and, and still does there. I mean, I don't think really there's been a, a huge, you know, impact, a counterfeit or sense then, especially with the new bill, the new bill is almost impossible to do. Yeah. It would cost too much money to try to even replicate it. Is that true? Yeah. Yeah. What new features have been added? Well, the visual physics is that purple strip. So, like I said, yeah, you can look it up.

1:02:28But that, that on the 2015, I think it came out in 15 or 13, I think it was 13, because that's when I got out, I felt like they let it out right when I got out. And it's a purple strip that goes on the middle. Okay. So, it's actually like, there it is. It's actually like thousand, like, nano, nano shards of glass that they embed and, and it, and it, it's called visual physics. It's actually really fascinating. Do they even tell you it's called visual physics and that thing? No. No, they know. Let me see this right here. This says it has a 3D security ribbon for one, where if you tilt the note back and forth while focusing on the blue ribbon or blue strip, some people call them, you will see the bells change to 100s as they move. When you tilt the note back and forth, the bells and 100s move side to side. If you tilt it, side to side, they move up and down. The ribbon is woven into the paper, not printed on it. Wow. It's called visual physics. That's the name of it. Scientists created, and the reason they didn't release the bill at the time was because that the bills were defected.

1:03:29So that printing technology wasn't perfected and they were trying to use it too soon. So if you take 100 if we had one and you folded it right on that, it would rip from that really easy. Really easy. Right? And so they didn't release it for a while. The ribbon would rip you right on the edge of the ribbon, the bill would just come right apart. Whereas money's made to be to last. Got it. And so these ones were a little bit, that technology wasn't perfected when they decided to use it. Got it. Let me read the rest of these. I think while color shifting 100, a raised, intaglio printing, genuine bills feel slightly rough, particularly across Franklin's portrait and certain printed areas. You've got it. On Isla Powell, you could feel Isla Powell. Are you can? Yeah. When you rub your thumb across Isla Powell, you'll feel it. That a famous director who used to, that famous director who used to pass money. I think it was from that movie, Liv and Diane Lossowski, look at it.

1:04:29It might have been William. Oh, Liv and Diane L.A. Yeah. It's one of the greatest movies ever. Liv and Diane L.A. Yeah, I love it. It's only counterfeit money. Oh, yeah. This is the guy right here, William Freakin. Let's hear this real fast. He introduced me to a counterfeiter that he had arrested and put in prison. And he got this guy out to come and make counterfeit money for us, which was as good as the government's money. I know because I used to pass it. I used to spend these fake 20s. This guy was an artist. If I was the government, I'd hire that guy to make the money cheaper. So yeah, that's pretty well. I remember hearing about that. That he used to pass this money, used to go around and spend it. And they had it on the money they got. I believe it was from the set of Liv and Diane L.A. I'd like to get some of that. Yeah. I collect money. I'd love to get my hands on something. I bet you do. I had a painting of Liv and Diane L.A. and my gallery and on Mel... So I'm an artist now, right? I told you.

1:05:30I had a space on Melrose and La Sienga. And I was doing a Liv and Diane in the L.A. picture. I was doing the poster that it came out. But I made it with money. And I mean, I made it really badass. It was really big. And on Halloween night, I didn't go in because I went and took the kids' trick of treating. And there was a drive-by. All my windows got shot out and somebody got shot. I would have been there if I didn't go trick or treating. But I was doing to Liv and Diane L.A. And I got bull, I got bullholds in my window. What the hell is this, man? Then predictive future. Oh, gosh. predict like a really good one. Theo goes to heaven. Paint that one. Yeah. But yeah, so we... Let's go back into it. So how much money do you think you printed over time? Oh, gosh. I mean, millions, millions, you know? But I burned millions, too. So my way, I would burn money if it was, if it wouldn't come out, right? You know, I'd get rid of it immediately. Because it was too risky to pass, trying to pass it. Yeah, yeah. And just didn't want it floating around, you know?

1:06:31And... Like, what's the escalation ladder like once that? Once you start to make money, you're buying things, you're tithing, you don't even know what to do. Like, what's happening with you personally and then what's happening with you as far as making the money? Personally, you know, me and Natalie are having the greatest time of our life, right? But I was getting tired of hitting the road all the time. It gets exhausting because you don't want to spend it at home. No, no. You don't, yeah, absolutely not, right? But I hadn't been in Chicago in like nine years. So when I went to Texas, I had to stay down there. And so I wanted to go back home, you know? And show my friends, you know? Like, now it's time. I know that, you know, I know I'm from an organized crime neighborhood, you know? So I'm thinking, man, this might be good. You know, I won't have to be driving around all the time because you're taking chances when you're hitting the road with that stuff, right? To get pulled over and you got stacks of 20s, fives and ones, you know? The cops are going to be thinking something. How much would you have in the car sometimes? Oh, God, 30,000, 40,000. Like, it's scary. You have so much, you know? Like, you know, like, yeah, even recent, you know, anyway, yeah.

1:07:33So yeah, the money, you have a lot of it gets you nervous. And so I wanted to do a little bit easier life with it, right? So that's what happens with crime, no, it escalates. Like I told you in the first. And so when I went back home, my, so when I was growing up in Chicago, the other thing is I like play basketball, love basketball. So I was on different teams and we would go to different neighborhoods. And whereas the Chicago could be a little racier at times, you know, sports always heal that, you know, so I could go to, I could go to 47th in Indiana, man, and go hoop and then boys love me over there, right? Or I could go to Pilsen, man, I'd hoop with the, with the amigos over there. I mean, I was able to go in all over the city because basketball got it. And I would, you know, I created friendships in all the different areas, man, you know, you're carrying in village. And even now, like I go anywhere, I'm probably the only white dude that go on third and wallets, you know, and hang out and just chill there, right? All of them cats over there, love me, you know, really? Oh yeah, yeah, I'd go over there. I'd leave quick. I'd take you over there with me. I mean, I would leave quick, but I would go, but I'm saying like I could move through

1:08:35city because I just, and so when I went back, you know, I went back to my boys, you know, got it. And so were you trying to big shot at that time a little bit like did you get it? Not at that time, not at that time. At that time, I just wanted to sell large chunks of it, right? I wanted to sell 100,000 in time for 30, right? Or 200,000. I never really wanted to go too high with the number. That's high. 100,000 was a good number, right? 100 for 30, you could walk away from that one, right? You start getting into the bigger numbers, you know, I've had people say, I want a million, I had one guy, Jordanian dude, one and five million, right? Did you consider it? I did, but I didn't, right? Like I didn't do it, you know, I considered it, you know, he actually showed up. I told me he was full of shit. I'm like, you ain't got that type of cash. And he showed up. He showed up popped his trunk, man. And he had three in a grand. Well, that was five million. So he had like one point five. It was, yeah, it was a lot of money. He had to suitcase the money. What kind of a roll? My role is Royce too. Who wins a role's Royce? Well, he actually owned a, he owned a, he came pull up in a demi-launt for

1:09:37the, he owned the exotic car rental company in Chicago years ago. He's causing who I was going through actually killed himself on the road in Vegas. There's actually a video over it. Oh, shit. Yeah, it got real weird because they were taking the money to Vegas. His, his, his, his, his, his, his stepmom or something owned a casino in Vegas, and they were running the money through their, and it got really. When they would win that money, they'll win my money. Yeah. It was not spent. Right. Yeah. It was crazy. Yeah. And then I guess, well, how about, yeah, that's, that was a real wild. Yeah, that sounds like a bad idea. It was a bad idea. But that sounds exciting though. Well, for, for, for me, you know, how much were you keeping at the house then? And my, I, I, so one of my dudes, um, Irish cat from the South Side, his, his dad was a big real real real real estate guy. He had like, man, he probably had, gosh, he probably had like 60 buildings on the South Side. Big apartment buildings that had like, you know, 20, 30 apartments in him. Like cat was well off. He had a lot of apartment buildings, man.

1:10:39And when he died, my friend got them all. All right. So my buddy inherited like 40 apartment buildings, you know, and I sleep everywhere. Why had eight apartments at one time, man? I had something over here. You had how many? About eight in one time apartments. About eight. And so you would keep money in them? Well, I'd keep, I'd keep equipment. And so I never did everything in, all at the same place. Right? Like I would print the money on the offset in one area and then I'd move it. Right? I wanted to get it, get it away from the offset as quick as possible. Got it. Right? Because if I just got caught with this, I'm cool. I get caught with that. Uh, I'm gone. I wouldn't even been sitting here if I got caught with that. I see. Yeah. So yeah, I was always able to get away without getting caught with the equipment. They, they, they never caught any equipment with me, you know? But, but so yeah, I would have stuff over here. I'd have paper over here. I have money stashed over here. And how did things start to get hot? Uh, just ego, you know, living life, you know, not the money's coming.

1:11:40Yeah, buying extra sandwiches, you're going to the clubs, cars, hats, cocaine's blowing in there. You know, I mean, just the whole night. You know the popping huh? Oh man, I was an animal. I was a savage. God, you know, I'm a shit dude. You fucking made it sound like you're fucking. I am now a grown old man, dad. No, you made it sound like you're in there, Ty, then you guys are just popping in a different malls with freaking blessing cinnabons and shit. And now you over here telling me all out, getting it going. I was a dirty Christian. That's not a call. All right. Yeah. Yeah. I would pray in the, you know, anyway, man, yeah, I think who turned that? Uh, Shiloh LeBouf from Transformers, the dirty Christian, dirty Christian, leaving God, it's still, still sin. No, we, well, that's what happened, man, just what, when you, well, one of my boys, so I got a really bad ass crew of cats in Chicago. Okay. Still do. My dude owned a drink. He was one of the owners of the drink, which was a real famous club in Chicago. Then he had one of the dope is private clubs in the city called Stalettos,

1:12:43like super private, you know, I can imagine it. Yeah. Yeah. So, so, so I had my, my crew of guys, we were like, we were serious. We were bad asses, man. You know, you guys were all doing it. Yeah. Oh, yeah, dude. I will say this. Some of the dudes that I know that get after it the most are from Chicago. Oh, yeah. No, we know how to have a good time, right? Yeah. I mean, it's like, it's unprecedented, bro. And then there are always like at some point in the evening or weekend, they're always like, oh, have you tried this like sausage from it? It's always like some dudes grilling up some, uh, some Polish Frank's or whatever. It's fucking the best. Oh, well, in summer, my dude, Tommy, he, he don't even use a stove. Yeah. And yeah, it's grillowy. We got one of our guys, one of our guys, Christal, he's Russian cat man. And he likes to cook indoors, man. And Tommy tries to draw him out the window. He's like, only outside in the summer, man, no cooking inside, you know, literally, that grill is going on stop. But yeah, no, I just had a good group of guys, but we were animals. We were savages, man.

1:13:43Yeah, well, getting after it. You're doing a coat thing. Yeah, we were doing limos. We were doing just dumb shit, man. Our limos are for fuck. Yeah. Well, back then it was kind of cool. Yeah. Yeah. Not now. It was you get in and then all you got to go all the way and you got to come on. Come on. Now we do the suburban. Those are the best ways to suburban. Yeah. Sometimes limos, I get in. If you're the first person, you got to go all the way to the like, bro, I'd be so drunk sometimes I couldn't even get out my fucking. I just stay. Just crawl out the fucking son of a. No, I just stay in there. Yeah, just stay in there. Go. Because it's too long. It's like a hallway. It was too far to get to the door, dude. Yeah, but did things start to get out of hand, man? You know, you're drinking going out. You're doing too much. You're flexing. Yeah, you're showing your flexing and you're just making mistakes. Got it. With me, you know, my and then and then for when I got caught, it was just kind of just freak, right? Because I'm always moving, right? But in the early time, it was more of the quiet being the quiet ghost, right? You know, and now you're going to the clubs and you're meeting people and you're doing

1:14:45more and you're doing more and you're doing more and you put yourself in more danger the more you do. Right. And so I actually ended up at the House of Blues. How I got, you know, how this the whole thing went down is I was at the House of Blues. I was meeting somebody. Dude, I've been to that House of Blues. It's right over there. It's across the river from the Chicago Theater. Yeah. Yeah. It was it was awesome back in the day. Was there a band playing? Yeah. No, it was a great night. I mean, we had so we went, we were actually staying at the hotel because I had like a little I had like where I lived was in Marshall, Illinois was like three hours or two. I forgot how how south it was. It was on highway one. But so like I told you, I'm real weird about where I laid my head at night. Yeah. And so I really ever was in the city, right? Where I laid my head was usually outside the city. Oh, you know, we said at that tall hotel right there by the river. Well, you had the round things. You know, we're the round. That's at the Cornhus. Yeah, it's the Cornhus. That's when you're saying it. That's what I said. Let's go. Dude, I'm staying there. You want to go? Well, let's go. Anyway, I got the cops. The cops kicked my door and they were kickers in.

1:15:47Oh, okay. Well, they kicked mine in and what guns out. You should have left the sign out there. No, they tricked me. Did they really? Well, what happened is we were at we were down at the so I'm coming in. I'm selling a hundred grand to one of my dudes. He had me meet. You know, we were going to stay at the house with Blue. So I had to meet us at the bar. So I get in and and he's just he shows up. He's like, dude, I can't really stay because I got family from he was a rush one of my Russian friends and he had family come in. They were doing a wedding or something. And he's like, he was, why don't you come back to my house and we'll party with all my family and then we'll do the deal tomorrow. I was like, all right, cool. Let's do it. So I went with him. We had a great time. But the bartender heard us say party and I guess he was a snitch for some dicks downtown, you know. And so he called his little contact. And so when me and my wife sister, because I had my wife sister, she wanted to see the city and I brought her up. And she was having a great time.

1:16:50And so when we went up to the room, I went into the room and she stayed on the couch near the front door. I was all the way in the back in the, you know, the sweets you got the, so the phone rings, so we get into the room like two in the morning. The phone rings, I pick it up and there's no one there. You know, and when that happens, you know, you got a problem. You got about 30 seconds. Yeah, it's not good, right? I put the phone down and not like literally 30 seconds, I mean, quick. I hear the door knock, right? And you have cash in there with you? Yeah, I had like 100, 100,000. I had it in the closet in between the towels. As I put the phone down, I hear the door hitting and ice and ice scream out, don't open the door, right? So she got up because I was, because the sweets were big. She didn't even hear me. She opened the door. Boom, they come in, they got their guns out.

1:17:52I'm like this man. No, no, I'm on the bed. Yeah, it was just a crazy movie scene, man, you know, what they think it was. They thought I was selling drugs. So the bar guy said party. Yeah, party. So he thought it was cocaine. Again, cocaine gets in trouble, man. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, they, they, they, they, they came in there. Where's the cocaine? Where's the cocaine? I'm like, what are you talking about? Like I have no fucking clue what's happening right now. They handcuffed me. They handcuffed my, my wife's sister. She's crying. She's only like 16 years old. She's scared. She's scared, right? She's, because we were supposed, I was going to take her to the museums and it was going to be a great little, like really nice day. Now she's in cuffs, right? And I'm thinking, oh my god, what is going on? And does she know you have this money in the room? No, she don't know nothing. Yeah, she don't have a clue. I was just going to drop it off. And, and, and now they say, man, why don't you take my sister, which is she wants to see the museums and all that? And I'm like, whatever, I bring her and what happens. So now here I am. We're both handcuffed. And she's looking at me like, not one thing I will say about her.

1:18:55She didn't say nothing. And she was sorry. Yeah, she just stayed there. She was crying a little bit. Then she kind of said, just calm down. It's going to be all right. And she listened to me. Anyway, they're searching the room looking for the cocaine. They find the money in the closet. They got the money. It's a brick money, you know? They said, listen, you're going to go through with the deal. You're going to call. You can contact. And you're going to go through with this deal. And you're going to have him come here and bring the cocaine here. I said, what are you talking about, man? Well, that's why you have this money. I'm like, man, you guys are, I ain't doing nothing. You know, and then they're getting all threaded and all that shit. Well, my luck, the, the one cop, he starts counting it. Right? They get me there. They're talking shit to me. They're counting me as like, man, you know? And then like probably like about maybe, I don't know, maybe five minutes into it. He starts looking and he's looking for something. And he calls his partner and he says, and he tells his partner, he didn't. So the guy was a fucking banker before he was a cop. No. He worked at a bank like a teller before he became a cop.

1:19:57So he wasn't seeing no red and blue fibers in there. So I didn't have the red and blue fibers in this. And I later ended up putting them in after this because this happened. Yeah. But he didn't, he didn't see the red and blue. Fire had everything else, had the watermark had the strip. He's like, man, I don't know what to think about this stuff. He was like, got all the stuff on it, but I'm not seeing no fibers in it. It's just not making sense. So they said, well, we're taking them in anyway. So they took me in. They took her in and, and then the secret service came. A woman's secret service. And she said, oh, why you're in jail? Yeah, they took it downtown, right? And what about the kid they let it go? No, hell no, they had her, they put her in a cell too. But the secret service showed up, right? And she's writing to me, telling me we know this, we know that. We've been looking, she goes, first she goes, we've been looking for you. We've been looking for you. I'm like, okay, you know, whatever. She goes, where, where, where, you know, then fi me cause, yeah, she's trying, yeah, she's trying, she wants to know where my stuff is, where my paper's at, where this is at.

1:20:58She's trying to meet someone too, which she knows, who knows with them, right? Because they're so, they're, you know, you don't know. Yeah, you never know. But one thing she was doing was threatening me with my wife's sister. Oh. All right. She's like, you're gonna tell me what I want. Or she's gonna face some charges. Or she's gonna face some charges. And I'm like, man, what am I gonna do? I didn't, cause I had to get my wife's sister out. On a good note, back then you had like those burn phones, everyone, you know, you could get them at Walmart, right? Little $20 with the card, remember to scratch the card off, put the number in it. So we had, I was like, I was like a James Bond criminal too. Never went into that, but I had surveillance, anti-surveillance shit. I had bug detectors. I had like all kinds of whacked out stuff, man. Like, you know, just really had, I could find hidden cameras and shit had this little thing. Anyway, I was real big into stuff like that. And again, safety, right? Cause here, you know, I didn't, I tried, I always wanted it to keep it to where, if anything ever happened, it was just on me. Got it. You know, that way I had Natalie in the world still where she could help me while I'm away.

1:22:01Right? You don't, I don't want her to go down to, you know, because then it takes my, my access away, right? She ended up getting married, you and her. Yeah, we ended up getting married. So, okay, got it. So here it is. I said, okay, I'll call her, right? They said, we know you got your stuff here. You know, Ferro said that your mom or her mom is with her sister right now at your house, but she don't know where the house is. And there's no way she could have known, because it was in Marshall, Illinois, man. We had, they flew into Indianapolis. I was in the cornfields, man. Like for real, right? And they said, so we want you to call her, right? So I called Natalie and I said, hey, listen, I'm here in Chicago. I'm not in a good position. You know, they got your sister and she said, yeah, my mom's trying to figure this thing out right now. I said, okay, well, you know, this is a serious situation. It looks like I'm going to be going away for a while. Well, what was awesome? She went right into, she went right into her movement and she got rid of everything, everything.

1:23:07Like, I mean, I don't even know how she did her mom had to help her, right? But like by the time they got there, Natalie strung them along, right? She kept stringing them along. And by the time they got there, it was completely empty. I had nothing in the house, man. The girl really saved my ass. I get arrested. They locked me up for the money that was in there. They let her go. Right? I said, it's my money and my thing, right? And my lawyer comes and he's telling me he's telling me the police report, right? And he reads it off. He says, hey, he goes, you know, they see weed on the, they said they saw weed on the table, right? And that's why they came in, right? They, they, they seen it and boom. That was their problem cause. I said, well, that's impossible, man, because the, the hallway, they'd have to be Superman. They'd have to have X ray vision to see the weed, right? And because there was a table around the corner. So he had someone go take pictures and then brought in the, um, brought in the security person that actually like came with the cops and threatened to put them in jail. If he lied, so he told the truth said that there was no, they didn't see no weed.

1:24:10And then he had the pictures. And so when I went back to court three weeks later, my attorney read off the, put the, the cop on the stand and read off the real police, police reporter. Yeah, we seen weed on the table and that gave us the problem cause. And it was illegal. It was all legal. He's, he goes, you know, officer, he goes, you're saying that you were able to see it? He goes, well, I have photos here with the data from the manager of the hotel. It says no furniture was moved. And there's no way you could have seen a table right away. The prosecutor's, uh, judge out. You know, right? They stopped the hearing. Fucking judges dismissed it and I walked right out. No, walked right out. You were free. I was free. Yeah. Couldn't believe it. I remember I called, I called, she was way back to Texas because she was from Texas with her mom. I remember calling her, I'm like, and she goes, where are you at? How'd you call me? What, you know, cause usually it's like, you got a call from a correctional facility, right? Yeah. There's none of that shit. It's just me corner. And I said, man, they let me out today. I just beat my case. She's like, what? And so then I ended up going there and then, you know, didn't you kept doing it?

1:25:11Well, no, I stopped. Then I went through, I went into like a real bad depression and shit, man. And just I couldn't, cause now I got sick of serous known who I am, you know? And like, and then I felt like I was locked. I, if I did, they knew it was kind of it. Oh, yeah, but they had to destroy it. They had, they had to throw the money away, you know, and do you have any money hidden anywhere at that time? I mean, I had money stashed here and I had, but I was scared to go it. I was, I was like, I felt like the trees were watching, man. You know, like it was like, you know, in the secret service, you don't really know what they know. Right. Right. Like you, they got secret weapons and shit, man. They can see underneath. Yeah, their name starts with secret. Secret. Yeah, that's enough right there. Like, you know, so, so for me, it was in my head. And so I ended up, I ended up watching this movie, man. Uh, it was an arm wrestle movie with Svesa alone over the top of the top. Yeah. And, and it was about a dad and a kid, man, and I just was missing my pops over the top of a gay movie. Now, I think it's like, is it? Yeah.

1:26:11Yeah, I think it's like over the top or whatever. I don't know. I don't know what it is, but it's something like that. Well, back then it was an arm wrestle movie. Yeah. With Svesa. I was over the bottom, I think. Over the bottom. We don't want to do no bottoms. That's the one I'm thinking. No, we don't want to do no bob. Yeah, this movie I remember, for sure. Yeah, over the top, man, especially with us. By the way, I ended up trying to find my pops. I went on, I went on, started looking for art to J Williams Jr. One pops up in a, uh, uh, a last year. So your past started catching up with you then probably. Well, now everything's cave in, right? You know, like, my whole world is like, I can't, I don't want to go near my presses. I don't want to go to the apartments. I don't want to go here. I don't want to drive that car. I don't, you know, like, I'm in a bad depression, man. Like I don't, I just don't want to move. So you find out where your dad lives? Yeah. So I ended up watching this movie and I got this thing. But so I find out there's a pill box and, uh, what was it? It was east of Anchorage, Chikolun, Chikolun, Alaska. Right. Way the hell up there, man. Right? He got far away from you guys.

1:27:12That's crazy. Well, it was the lady he took off with, right? She, she, she, she didn't want him to be around his kids. So she made sure she took him as a far away from us as she could, you know, that's crazy. Yeah, it was terrible. But so I find them and I write a letter, you know, I say, man, if this is art Williams, boom, from Chicago, this is your son. Man, here's my phone number and I had a burnout phone. And it took about three weeks. He called me. And then when he called me, I was like, you know, I said, hey, you know, I didn't tell him what was going on. I just say, man, I like to see him, you know, he said, well, you come up here. So because this would be for the nine one one. So you know, you could still get into the airports, you know, pretty easily, you know, and so I had fake IDs too. You know, so I ended up sneaking off to Seattle. And then I flew out of Seattle to Anchorage and I, and I brought Natalie with me. And I'm, I mean, my dad picked us up with the, that chick he took off. And I could just see the, the, the darkness on her face that I was showing up, you know, and, and he, I remember driving out to his house and just kind of tripping that I was in Alaska.

1:28:18Like I'm a straight southside city boy band. And now I'm in a fucking wilderness, you know, and that shit's wilderness out there. You know, yeah, it's what I heard. Oh, yeah, it's beautiful though, man. Nothing like it. But like when we, we got to his house, he had another separate, like, little guest house. And then he had like a little trailer over here, you know, and so we went into this guest house and, and Natalie went out to the trailer, actually, and then, and his wife went into their house. And me and my pops just stayed up for like two days, man, smoking at Alaska Perp, you know, because he, he had the, you know, that purple bud before people knew it was purple, you know. Oh, yeah, I was bent off that iceberg. Yeah. We were just, and we were talking shit and catching up. Was he like a crime guy? I mean, yeah, well, he was a paper hanger at one time, you know, like when I was young, he was running checks. So it's kind of kind of odd that I ended up running money, right, paper, you know. And at that time, so when, when me and him were hanging, when I went to Alaska, you know, and we're smoking and we're talking, we literally stayed up for like two days, just catching up. And I was telling him about everything. I, I opened up about what I did.

1:29:20I had some of it on me. I showed them some of it. You break them off a little. Well, that's where all things went bad, right? That's when I ended up going to prison because, you know, after I showed him, so I called Go fever, right? Like when people, when people, when I would show, that's the reason I didn't show too many people because when you showed somebody the bills and even, and like even my canvas ones, now people see, can we print it on paper? Right? If I, because I print on canvas and I paint over it. Right. But even those bills I've had people say, man, that looks good. It's on canvas. It's not even on paper. So when you would show someone the real bill, they get wet, the mouth, they're, their brain gets wet, everything gets wet, you know, like they just, it's, I call it a go fever because they would go into this. Just their eyes would change, you know, especially if he's up in Alaska, he's already half. He's into this shit. Yeah. Well, he, well, it got, it got nuts. I mean, he, um, so you showed him the money. I showed him the money and then after we started moving around, he, he had his own thing going on. He was growing bud in, um, like track, truck, tractor trailers, he'd, they bury him underground.

1:30:23And then they, he would tap into the, the, the power line on the side of the highway. Like he had some crazy shit going on too. Yeah, yeah, y'all are wild. Yeah, no, he was on one. Like I was like, man, he's just scared to get electrocuted. He's like, man, you know, he was actually tapping into the, to the power line. Yeah. And they were, and then they had this special material that the, the, the heats, the airplanes couldn't look through. Like they were on some, this is early in the game, you know, and, um, and so we, we were bonded by showing each other what we were doing. Yeah, I'll show you mine. Yeah, I'll show you. Yeah, I'll show you. I'll show you. I'll show you the money you're doing the weed. You know, I'll show you my crime. He showed me. Yeah, that's kind of what it was. That's how we reunited, man. Like the crime things, you know. And, uh, and it was awesome. And my dad was cool, man. He was funny. He was, he was, he was, um, it sucked. He had left, you know, I think for him, you know, he, he seen how I was, right? Like we, we, we were cool, man, and, and, and, and, and he felt, I could feel the, the like, damn, I wish I would have known this cat, you know, like I wish I would have been around him more, you know, yeah. He probably, you guys probably would have had a good time together.

1:31:23Yeah. You know, but so then anyway, he started, um, he started asking me if I, if he could make it. If I could make more, right? And, and, and I was like, man, yeah, of course. And then, and then it's my dad. So I want to make him proud, you know, and so, but I came clean with him. I said, look, man, the reason I actually came to find you is because I got jammed up in Chicago. And so I had, I had to disappear. And he, and he said, well, can you still make the money? I said, well, of course I can make it, but we have to change it. I can't make it exactly the same because then don't know what's mean. So some sort of element has to be changed in it. And so then he goes, well, can you do it? And I'm like, yeah, I think were you planning on doing it? Uh, there was a thought because I knew I couldn't use the same recipe, you know, what were you planning on making more? No, hell no. I wanted to go up there and I didn't want to do nothing, man. I just, I just wanted my pops. Yeah. I just wanted my pops. I didn't want to make no money, you know, damn. It's kind of crazy then that he asked you. Yeah. Well, he's a cry, he's a crime, crime guy.

1:32:25And, you know, and then, and then we're bragging about it. Hey, look at this, you know, and so then maybe he thinks my son thinks, it's cool, too. Yeah, you know, and then, and even when I told him about what happened, man, he's like, you got a way. So there was even the element that I pulled the fast one. Right. Right? Like that, even that was impressive to him. Right. You got out. I got out. Right. And now you hear they don't know where you're at. All right. Fuck him. Let's go. Let's go. Right. So, so I told him I said, listen, I'm probably going to do this. I got to go back to Chicago and I got to get supplies and with shit up up here. And so I had, I had brought with me. I had brought with me about 20,000 of the fake money. I used to, I used to have a belt that I could put 10 grand in and I could wear it around, you know. And that's what I was showing them. And so I said, I said, here, listen, I'm going to leave this, let's leave most of it here. And let's fly into Seattle and then we'll drive across the country to Chicago. We can spend a little money. Check out, get close because, you know, we haven't seen each other for 22 years.

1:33:28Yeah. Right. And spend a little counterfeit cash and joy. Yeah. Enjoy. Yeah. Go to Chicago, get the material, ship it back. And we did. We, you know, he, so he left the stuff with his, his, his wife though, and she hated me. And so she started spending it in Alaska, giving it to her friends, telling her friends who made it. Tonit was fake, you know, I am moved to meet and shit. Just, yeah, I'm going to speak probably. Yeah. All for hats, for fish, for fish. Fish made out of fur. But they were spending it. And I had specifically told him, you cannot spend this here in this, in Alaska. You can't, you know, because it's, it's fucking way up here, man. Oh, you know, you're done. At least in the lower 48, you know, you, you move the money around. So anyway, she did though, and not only did she, but then she, she made sure she let the secret service know who was making it when it all came down, right? Because when we were in Chicago, so here I am in Chicago. I'm sending, we're sending stuff back. And, um, and then we see my sister, my sister, my dad, they get into it.

1:34:33My sister is, is forgiving as I am. She's kind of like, man, about this guy. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and she's even at me like, what, what, what's the deal, man? What do you care? But what do you care about this? Catty left us, you know? Yeah. And, uh, and so I didn't go back with him. I shipped everything, all the stuff and I said, I told him I had to go to Texas to get one thing. Uh, and while he fly back and then I'll come and I ended up leaving Natalie and the baby up there. And she was pregnant, right? With, with, with, in Alaska, in Alaska. Okay. And so when I finally called her, I went back to Texas, she goes, why, why aren't you on the plane with your dad? I'm like, oh, man, I had to go here. She goes, fuck that. You better, I'm pregnant, dude. What are you doing? You know, yeah. And so I ended up getting the things I needed and I fly, I flew back to, to Anchorage, but I stayed with a, a niece's daughter in Anchorage when he, when he was out there. And, um, when it's so, so, so weird how things happened and how fast, but I was, I was getting a bad feeling. I don't know, it was weird. Like I just wanted to get out of there.

1:35:33So I'm telling Natalie, I'm like, hey, we're leaving. We're out here. And, and, oh, that's what it was. When, when, when I went to visit him, he took me, uh, he took me to this biker party. It was how his angels, right? He, he was real cool friends. We wanted the big dogs up there. And, uh, and we went to this crazy ass, like gathering and he introduced me to the dude. And then he, then he told the dude that I was the one that made the money. And I looked at him like, what are you telling this cat that I don't know that I'm making money, man? I got pissed with the man real, real bad. That's pretty shitty. Yeah, it was terrible, man. He started showing me colors of reason why he left. Mm hmm. You know, there was a reason he left because he wasn't that, that, that cool laffity dude. There was something wrong, you know? Yeah. And I'm seeing it, right? And so after that happened, when I got back to, to, to the house, I told A pack up or leaving. We're getting out of here. And, uh, and so then I ended up flying to Houston and one of my dudes picked up. But the secret service was waiting for me in Dallas. So I'm, but knows to me, as I'm wanting to get out of Anchorage because of how he is,

1:36:38Denise is working with the, the secret service the whole time. His wife, his wife. Oh, yeah. So they're getting ready to, why? Why would she do that? She just didn't want me around. She didn't want to, his kids around it was the whole reason he took off for 22 years, you know? And so this was her way of just like get, get him out of here. Got it all. So once you hit Houston. Yeah. Once I hit Houston, my boy drives me up to Dallas to where Dallas, mom is and secret service were waiting for me. They busted. They, they grabbed us. They said, we gotcha and they did. You know, they had me. I ended up going to prison. My dad ended up going to prison because he had guns in the house and he was a felony possession. And then she, she was the, the confidential informant, but when she went to court, she, she pleaded insanity. And they, oh, this is a woman. It was crazy, right? She pleads insanity. I get three years. My dad gets six years or no, he got four and a half years. And then she pleads insanity and the judge takes her to trial and gives her six. Wow. She gets six years. That's just lying about it because she was lying about it.

1:37:39I got less than everyone. It was wild on the day I get out, at least you finally knew where your dad was or four and a half years, you know, yeah, he was in shared and federal correctional, but yeah. Yeah. But anyway, well, sad support those, the day I got out of prison, he died. No. Yeah, had a heart attack that morning in prison in prison. Oh, man, I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just said that. Oh, no, man. It's cool. Man, my dad's laughing. His ass off right now. He ain't tripping, man. You know, I, I, I need, so the thing is, is that's irony in life, man. Right? Like when my, when I got, so here you are, I'm getting ready to get out of prison. You're packing your stuff. You're happy. You're going home. You know, there's no better feeling than getting your freedom back, right? And you walk out the door and then you get handed, you know, a phone and they tell your dad's that. And so you go from one high to the next quick, right? And, and I had to deal with that. And then I ended up getting my son, right? So I had, now I got 13 year old, whose mom's a cop. And she's calling me pissed off because he's printing $20 bills at her house.

1:38:39Off her little printer probably just trying to relate to his dad. Exactly. Right? Cause I just got a prison. So now I got this kid, you know, that I'm taking care of because she don't want him at the house. And, you know, me and him ended up going to prison together for what? Money. I ended up going back with your own son. Yeah. No. Sorry. Good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. Yeah. You weren't arrested at the same time. No, we weren't arrested at the same time. So, so he's 13. For a, I am. Yeah. It's crazy. Dr. Shit's wild. You can't, I'm telling you, this shit's so nuts, man. Like I sit back and trip out on it. Yeah. I sent a picture to your dude with my son rapping in prison. There it is right there. Oh, he wraps. Yeah. He wraps. He's a badass rapper. Yeah. No, this is a crazy situation because in prison, it's real racy, you know? Yeah. And I would imagine that American greed did a show on me. American greed. You know, yeah, they did. Yeah. Episode 46, right? Early in the American greed days. And so me and my son are in prison together watching American greed

1:39:42and they played one of his songs on TV. No. Right? So all the brothers heard him rapping and they do shows in prison, like on the holidays. Yeah. You know, that's how Johnny Cash came in there and jammed. So Johnny Cash didn't come here, but they on July 4th, the brothers were doing a concert, you know? Well, like on Fridays, you know, the brothers would do stuff on others. Yeah, there's like, oh, well, I think it's like a red white. And black. Yeah, yeah, yeah, just like that, right? Yeah. And so they came to him and they said, hey, man, we heard you on TV, man, like, rapping because we were like prison celebrities in there, right? Yeah. Because we were on TV and then I was trying to get it. And you all were printing money. Yeah, we were, yeah, we were like the coolest cats. So you guys were in prison together. Yeah, we were selling together. Yeah. What are you talking about? So you and your son were the, we're selling together. That little boy 18 years old, it was nuts. Tight. Yeah, well, I tell you, there was you and him were sellmates for going to jail for counterfeiting together. Yeah. So when I, so after my dad died and I get out being long story short, my son and me, we're not really getting along, right? He's being tough kid.

1:40:42His mom can't take care of him because she's a cop. She can't have that shit in her house. And, and we connect through music, you know, like he, he was real good musician, you know, he looked, and he was only like at that time, like 13. And so I knew Johnny K who, who, he had groove sounds and he did like disturbed, fallout boys. Those guys came out of Chicago. It was his studio and that was my dude. Okay, he's a producer, big producer. Got it. You know, he did disturb fallout boys. Yeah, I don't know a lot of producers in that area, but understood. Yeah, so we would hang out at his studio. Okay, got it. And then my boys at this bad ass studio, you know, and he's, and he's, and he's, they're letting them wrap in there and make beats in there and just do some really cool shit. And, and, and he had talent. Johnny was like, hey, man, this kid, you know, this is before there were any other white rappers besides M&M. Got it. Right. And so he made some song, he made four songs and then started getting expensive. My boy was like, hey, look at, let's keep it going. But you got to throw me a little something, right? Because it's not like now where you can have a home studio, you know, big boards.

1:41:43And so that's what brought me back into printing. Because I was like, okay, you know what, I'm going to make as much money as I, I'm going to do one big blast and I'm going to help my son make it, you know, and, uh, yeah. There's artists now that I think their, their parents are helping them make it, I think. Oh, no, yeah. Well, I knew a lot of people plus I was for, you know, so it just needed this. Yeah, the money, you know, so the only way I knew how to do it was, you know, at that point, I was working out at the, at a shipyard and, you know, the river rat running up and down the river, pushing barges and shit. So I was done with the work in myself anyway. So you're ready to travel when we're going at it? I was ready. I was like, let's do it. You know, and then I got my work. Did you convince him or he convinced you? No, at first I didn't even let him know it was on me, you know, like this was my thing, you know? Oh, so you were going to make a month, you were going to make some money anyway. Yeah, yeah, I was already at that point, but this was a perfect reason to do it. Because you need a money for his career. Yeah, for his career. For sure. Yeah. So anyway, now, but at this point, man, all the technologies changed. They had scrapped all the freaking presses. You know, they had what year is this?

1:42:43Ah, that was like 2003, 2000, yeah, about 2004. Okay. Because I went to prison in 2000, and 2005, 2006. Got it. So, but it was hard to get the equipment. Now, at this time, you got to hook up the internet to use Photoshop. You can't just pop in the CD anymore. You know, so I pretty much spent time hustling all the equipment up and getting it ready to go. And me and my brother broke into the paper place. You know, we actually cut off. We're probably the only idiots to break into a paper company. Yeah. Like we cut a hole in the thing and we're like, I'm broken. It was fucking, oh, it's nuts, man. And what's really nuts about it, the paper company only closed one day a year, one day a year. I guess what day that was. Christmas. Fucking Christmas. We watched it. So on Christmas, you and your brother broke into the paper company. Yeah, it was the fast we got onto it. We cut a hole in the ceiling in the tin metal. It was on Christmas. We blow it ourselves down. We actually got into a fight in there because they had these big potato sacks, right?

1:43:43And these these rolls were massive, right? Like I had always got little butt rolls, right? You know, but the real roll was massive and weighed thousands of pounds and they were stacked up real high. So me and my brother had a we had to scale all the way up to the thing. And then we're sitting here with our legs up in the air and we're pushing the roll off the thing. And when it hit it cracked the concrete. And then me like a madman, when we get down, when you cut the roll, it makes a snap. Loan real loud, right? Because that's tight, you know? And I was stuffing the potato sacks and I had about 10, 10 big potato sacks stuffed, but I couldn't stop. I kept stuffing and kept stuffing. My brother grabbed me and said, bro, we got to go. We got enough. We got to make 10 million. And I'm like, there's never enough like it. And then we're getting into it. And finally, I said, well, I'm leaving you here, man, I'm out of here. Anyway, he waited for me, but we got all the paper. We had everything ready. Damn. And then one day I had just spoke, this is what was crazy.

1:44:46Now they're doing, they just did a Rolling Stone thing on me. I was a Rolling Stone magazine, right? So you were doing public speaking. I was doing public speaking of counterfeiters. As I'm counterfeit. This is what was so bizarre about. It's addiction, really. Addiction, yeah. Could have stopped. Well, they flew me out to Rochester, right? Document security systems. It was a check company. And so they wanted me to speak at some conference. And I thought it was a corporate check conference, right? I fly out there to Rochester. And I got the same assistant that Frank Abigail had, right? Frank Abigail was the check guy from Catch Me If You Can. Well, he had retired. And so they wanted me to step in his place, right? So the security company was trying to get you to come and work for them. Yeah, yeah. It was a check security. They wanted me to, you know, they would send me product. ADP, I know it was a document security system. DSS. And they, but you're still doing crime at this point. I am. Yeah, they don't know. Right? So you get there and what have, so I get there, man. And I'm sitting in the hotel bar with the assistant. And I'm looking around. I'm like, man, everyone in here looks like a cop, right?

1:45:48And I ask, I'm like, hey, isn't this like a corporate check security thing? She goes, no, this is a Homeland Security Conference for fraud. I'm like, what do you mean? Like everyone in here is an agent. She's like, yeah, these are all federal agents. I'm like, what? I wanted to run out the door, man. I couldn't believe it. I was like, oh, this can't be happening. This can not be real. Can you speak at the conference? Yeah, yeah, but it was not easy though. I'll tell you what happened. So here it is. I don't even really drink much, man, right? But I'm pounding whiskey, right? Yeah, sounds like it. I'm, I get to the room. She was worried about me. She's like, she's like, you're gonna be all right. I'm like, yeah, man, I'm all right. I'm just glad it finally, at some point in the story that somebody was worried about you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like we gotta have somebody be worried about us. I got people now that love me, man. It's all good. It all worked out. For sure, but this is the first time I've heard you say that in all of this. Yeah, yeah, no. Well, my mom always did. And she did. Yeah, my mom was always there. And so anyway, so here I am at the conference and I go up to the room.

1:46:49She wakes me up at like six o'clock in the morning and tell me what to not eat, what to eat, what I can eat. And we go, what you worried about your diet for? Did you get to speak that day? Yeah, that morning. I was first to be in nervous. Yeah, she don't want me being nervous. I was the first speaker. It was the eight o'clock in the morning, right? So I go into the hall where it's all set up and I walk into the front. And I'm looking at who's speaking. It was the guy that caught the son of Sam was speaking that day too, right? The serial killer. Yeah, it was pretty cool, man, actually. But I'm like nervous. My stomach is just ripped, man, right? And I'm looking like who's coming in? And I'm thinking to myself, oh, man, it's eight in the morning. They're not going to be here, maybe 10, 2015. Not too many people are going to show up. So I'll be all right. Yeah. It fit a thousand people, right? Literally, man, I'm not kidding. Like that hall stayed empty till like two minutes before eight. Yeah, I thought I won. It was only like just a few people and I'm like, oh, yeah, they're still sleeping.

1:47:49This is their vacation. They're not going to be getting up at eight in the morning and watch some counterfeiter, right? Man, bro, like in a matter of like two minutes, man, it started filling up in the whole place was packed, all agents with their badges. And I start sweating. Like I'm sick. I don't know if they, I don't know if they know what I've done back in Chicago. Right? I don't know. I'm thinking, man, am I being set up? Do they know? Are they playing games with me? My brain was rattling, right? And so she gives me some water. She sees me sweating. I said, man, I gotta go to the bath. So they hooked me up. They put the thing, the mic on me, getting ready to go. And I'm looking around. It's loud, you know, and everyone's sitting down. And the present, the guy that was presenting everybody, he came up and he goes, hey, you all right? He goes, you know, let's test the mic and you know, we're about, this is how I'm going to do this. I'm going to say this and this and I'm going to call you up. Okay. I'm like, all right, cool. He said, can I use the bathroom real quick? And she's like, yeah, it's right out the door.

1:48:50So I go out to the bathroom and I just start throwing up. I'm in the bathroom just throwing up. There was a door that went outside. I kind of stumbled out the bathroom, went outside, and I'm talking to myself. I'm like, what the fuck is wrong with you? What are you doing? You fucking, man, like I'm really like insane talking to myself and they can hear you. And they fucking heard me. She comes out, she comes running out. She goes, dude, dude. She grabs the thing. She goes, we're canceling this. You're not going to, you're not speaking. And I'm like, what do you mean? She's like, they've listened to everything you just said right now. I killed them all. Remember that guy? He's like, I killed them all. Who was that guy? They heard everything. I was talking about what the fuck am I doing? So I said, I said, no, man, we're not going to cancel this, man. We're not going to cancel it. So I walked back in, we're in there. We're not going to cancel it. Well, that's the problem with me. I'm stubborn, dog, right? Like, that's the reason I ended up making the money. I did something. Robert Durst muttered, killed them all, of course. So I go back in there and it's silenced now.

1:49:53And they're all staring at me. You asked the first question you asked me. How's it feel when people are staring at you and all that stuff you were talking about? Yeah, like the moon. Yeah, like the moon. Yeah, that's what I was going through, right? That's what it felt like. And they walked me up to the front. The presenter, he starts, then he calls me up. There's no way you got through it. Listen to this. It was awesome, actually. I get up there and I look and I freeze. Like I'm frozen. For sure. Like I can't move, dog, right? And there was an older woman that had this silver here. I'll never forget her. She was about 15 rows in and she just lip, lipped it. You're going to be all right. I could read her lips. It was weird. She goes, you're going to be all right. That's what she kept saying. And then I just came out of it. I said, you know, I'm a little froze right now. It's the first time I've ever been in a room with this many agents. Usually I'm getting hauled off to jail and they all laughed. Okay. And once they laughed, then I just started like going in

1:50:54with everything and it was amazing. I ended up speaking for like 45 minutes. I took questions for like 30 minutes. They ended up sitting me next. They sit me at the head table next to the Homeland Security Secretary. We were joking about how he was making fake IDs when he was in high school. And so like it turned out, what looked to be terrible, right? Turned out to be amazing. You know, but I had to go back to Chicago and I was still printing money. I was going to anyway. But now I'm having second thoughts. Like there was all kinds of things going on when I was flying back to the city. Okay. You know, like I was like, man, am I really going to do this? You know, when I actually got this opportunity right here that maybe could actually take care of me. Right. And when I get home, you know, my son's being whatever. And I do a few things and when I come back to the house, he's printing money, 20s. We get into one of his friends. We get into it. He runs out. I run out after him. You know, I'm trying to tell him he don't have to do this.

1:51:54And he throws the money at me while a cop is passing by. No. And the cop gets out. I'm trying to pick the money up off the ground. And the cop, I tell the cop my name right away. Boom. And it was over, right? They called the secret recipe, called the secret service. Secret service was torn with me actually because they were like, you know, we know this is your son's money and all this. Like we're not looking at you. But I had some, I had some of that old money that I got busted with, you know, from that was buried. And I played with it a little bit. And it popped, right? And they knew. And so they pulled me in and they said, we know what you're doing. We know you got a whole new office, you know, a whole new place and you got paper and you got the ink. And, you know, we got, we're about to get you, man. You're going down for the rest of your life. Like because if you get busted with the presses and the files and the plates and stuff, you're done. Got it for sure. Yeah, you're done, right? So what happened is they ended up, they ended up,

1:52:57they said they knew where it was at. They took me in and my boys let me know what happened. I wasn't there, but they literally had helicopters and the SWAT teams and they fucking busted in my space. But what happened was three weeks before that, the old man did owned the building, Rick Abenny. He owns Rick Abenny's, it's a bread shop, he's dead now. But he had sold it, it was an old warehouse. So did you warehouse? And he had sold it before this happened and told me that I had to get all my shit out of there. So the secret service, yeah, they knew that I was there, but they didn't hit me. I don't know why they waited. And so I ended up moving everything out because he told me to move everything. And then he had a cleaner come in and clean everything. So when they kicked in the door, there was nothing in there. It was insane. Nothing, I wouldn't be sitting here right now if there was. Yeah, and they were messing me. They're like, we got you now, we got you, we're going in. And there was nothing, the press was gone, the paper was gone, ink was gone, everything was gone. It was so like, blessed and cursed, bro.

1:54:00It's kind of like this perfect mix, bro. It's perfect mix, man. But did you have to testify against your son or anything like that? No, no, he didn't go jail. So how do you and your son end up in jail together? So after this happens, they kick in the doors, whatever. I go ahead and take the beef, right? I got probably the shortest paragraph federal indictment in history, literally one paragraph, right? They give me seven years, 105 months. I go down. My son's left, he's 15. Well, he kept doing it, right? He got, he's smart kid, right? He's seen some of the stuff, he gets the paper, he's like, he's getting everything. My brother's still out there playing with him, so him and my brother, whatever, right? And I'm in prison and I'm gone for like three years. We gave it a help, give him advice and suggestions about it from prison. No, no, we didn't really talk much, you know, that was it. You know, I didn't see him at all. I saw him three years later. So what happens is I get a call, I call home and my sister says, hey, you need to call Karen. The day my son turned 18,

1:55:01the secret service went and arrested him. As soon as he became an adult, they pretty much let him play money man, right? Because he's like, the these charges aren't that good if you're a kid. Yeah, your kid, nothing's gonna happen. As soon as he hit 18, he, his stories, he got a crazy story how they grabbed him, but he was on the run a little bit and they grabbed him finally. And so I called my sister, tells me what's going on and he gets sentenced to, I think it was like 36 months. So now I'm already been gone for three years. Now he's 18 and they ship him to fourth city Arkansas. I'm in Big Spring, Texas at a real shit hole. I've been trying to get out of there and they end up transferring me from there to, to fourth city. Wow. Yeah, and it was crazy because when I got there, I knew he was there. I knew he was there, right? So as soon as I went through processing, you know, go through all that shit all day. As soon as I hit the, hit the dorm, some of the white guys came up to me, you know, what you're saying? I told him, he's like, oh, your son's here.

1:56:02And I'm like, yeah, I know. And I need to see him as soon as I hit the yard tomorrow, right? They were like, shit, you don't have to wait to the yard. Your son's in the dorm. I'm like, what? He's like, yeah, he's here in this dorm. He's in TV room right now. Damn. I'm like, what? So I haven't seen my son for three years, right? And I, I, I, I, I'd be lying to the, to the, to the, the TV room. And when I opened up the, the TV door, and he was sitting right there on the, the front thing, looking up at the TV with his little headphones on. And when he's seen me, man, he just, he just, he got up and just ran straight to me, man. I'm tearing up because my boy's in prison. So as happy as I am to see him, I'm devastated inside that he's here. That both of y'all are there. Yeah, just devastated. Well, I could handle me. Right. My life's been hell. I don't want him to go through it, you know? And with this, what was cool though, man, here it is, some of the hardest cats, man, in this TV room. And it's just pure silence. And you see this guy crying over there,

1:57:03and this guy crying over there, and that guy crying over there, like people were thinking of their kids. And they're seeing me and my son just embracing. I just held them, man. Damn. And that's where I learned to become a dad, man. The next two and a half years, man. I started, I've been painting. I paint, you know, and so in prison, that's what I did. And then my son was music. So he, he was writing lyrics. And so our plan was, yeah, that's being imprisoned with one of my first pieces, you know? And so, so the plan, the grandmaster plan was, you know, that he was going to do music, and I was going to do art, you know? And so, you know, I got out in 2013. I got out a month before him. They wouldn't let us out together. The therapist, the counselor said, we're going to let you out first. So you could get yourself situated. Then we're going to let your son out. Okay. And so when I got out, you know, I just, I had an unbelievable, I had an unbelievable, community around me, you know? Like when I got out, my attorneys were there,

1:58:05my friends were there. They got me a job. They got me a place. They got me a car. I had to go through my struggles. It wasn't easy, you know? And then my son got out and he ended up getting his CDL and then he started driving a trash truck. Now he's doing amazing. He's been out 13 years. We've opened out 13 years now. He just bought his first house. Oh, yeah, it's amazing. He just had a baby. You know, he's doing amazing. He's writing new music. Now his music is freaking awesome. Like he's really getting down on his music. And then me, you know, I went through the art thing, you know, I first two years out. I almost actually went back to printing. He busted me. He busted me with some chemicals and... Your son did? Yeah. So like two years after this, after... He said the same thing. Yeah, well, it just like, it was a bunch of things. Like I just met someone who was about to have a baby. It just felt like deja vu all getting. Right? And so I ended up walking away from it. And I ended up... One of a big time cat in Chicago, his name's Joe Catchatory. He owns Lake Side Bank.

1:59:06He took me under his wing and he said, look, man, I don't want you to go back to prison, man. I want to show you how to make it, you know? And damn, here it is 13 years later. And I've had five galleries. I've had unbelievable shows from Rose Warriors to Satai. I've got to meet some of the most amazing people. And you know, just life has been so fucking awesome, man. A better community too. It just shows you that what a community can do for us, man. Really? Like what about, tell me about like, when you look at like crime and the effect that it's had like on your family overall, like what do you think about that? I mean, for me, like... What I, what I, what I, because I've mentored guys getting out of prison. I speak at schools, I've spoke at schools, you know, to talk about how to overcome stuff, whether it's mental illness, whether it's drugs, whether it's crime, right? Because crime can be addictive to them. And... Yeah, I'd never thought of it as an addiction until I spoke with you about it. Yeah, it almost seems like a familial addiction too. They say it's worse than heroin, counterfeiting.

2:00:06If you looked it up, I think it says that counterfeiting is more addictive than heroin, you know? Wow, bring that up. Yeah, there's something on it. You know, for me, it's like... So I have a few cats that I've kept in touch with that I was in prison with. Yeah. But sadly, almost, you know, 78% of people go back. Small percentage of us that make it out. There's even a smaller percentage that make it into something really big. You know, so what I've done with my art, with my life, and with, you know, is very unusual. Right. That's not part I get. But do you think what effect do you think that crime had like on just like your, like, you know what I'm saying? Because you had it, it's very wild that you had this happen in your own father-son relationship and then it had it in the second generation of it. Well, here's the thing. The crime actually, the streets, it is even deeper than the crime. It's the whole aspect of the streets and the mental illness with my mom. Those things, I think, make, allow me,

2:01:07they've taught me how to deal with shit now. Right? Like before what would happen, the reason I would always go back to the crime is because of the stress, right? Of being able to survive, right? I need to eat, I need shoes, I need to take care of my kid. Like people have these stresses, everyone does, right? Some people deal with it differently, right? Me, I was trained since, from the first time breaking into the meters, I was, the training was to just like an animal to hunt. Right, you'd learn that. Yeah, I learned that. That's what, that's where, yeah, I don't blame you. And so there wasn't, like, there wasn't the guilt, there wasn't the shame, there wasn't that part of it. But the crime and the streets and everything I went through, it's made me now like aware. Like I see through a lot of things that other people don't see. But looking back, do you think, yeah, do you have like, was there any situations that you caused by passing all that fake money? Like did it ruin some people's business or anything like that?

2:02:10Did you have to make any like a man's with that sort of situation? No, the more of the men's that I needed to make was with my son, you know, and my kids and the people that relied on me that I, you know, I wasn't there for, right? Like even when I went back for seven years, you know, Natalie was still had the three babies down in Austin, you know? And I didn't even know, I didn't even get to meet the young one till like four years later. Wow. And so the things that I regret are more family, you know? I was, I didn't sell drugs and I wasn't into all that other stuff. You know, so for me, the money was almost like, well, they're doing it shit, you know? Like, why can't I, you know? And then I was always doing good with it. So whether that was to justify me doing or not, I just, I didn't ever feel that guilt for it, you know? And anyone ever come to you and say, hey, you passed this much fake money with me and this is a problem. Oh, no, no, no. I've had people come to say, man, I got one of your bills

2:03:11and I loved it, right? Like people, even now there's a couple people in the city that had had some of them that actually framed them. Oh, they still in circulation? No, I don't know, maybe, you know, the money was good. But if you even have one, will you send it to me? So I can have one? I will. Yeah, I will. Yeah, I actually brought you one. No, you didn't. No, I brought you 100, but not what it is. I brought you something though. No, I mean, it was, it was, it was, it was a wild time, man, you know? And then like, oh yeah, here we go. Yes, counterfeiting money can be come a psychological or behavioral addiction while it's not classified as a substance addiction, criminologist and psychologist recognize that the process of committing high stakes financial fraud can trigger the exact same neurological reward pathways as gambling, stealing or substance abuse. The high of counterfeiting comes from the combination of chemical rush of the crime, the artistic obsession and the illusion of ultimate control. Dang, bro. That sounds like some shit I would love to do, but I just wasn't brave enough. You know, I did that fucking nose crime, baby. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. No, the money, man, like even now,

2:04:12so when I print sheets of money right now, like, but it's for work, right? It's for your own. It's canvas and I paint over it, but I still get that same, when I see that sheet coming out and I could do it legal, like it just warms my, I just get like all giddy bands seem. Do you think that people should be a lot of counterfeit money? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Well, because money is just like a, it's like a kind of a social construct that we have. It's like this, you know, well see the thing about money, you know, like my things, I think we should be allowed to keep more of it. So I think that we're taxed too much, right? I agree with that. You're taxed on what you do, you're taxed on what you buy, you're taxed on your car, you're taxed on this. Like before the 1900s, there was no tax, right? And so like, there would, like even me, I loved a barter. I barter a lot, man, I trade paintings for cars, for this, for that, I love to barter, right? So like, should people be allowed to print? No, and either should have I, man, it was wrong, you know? These days it's like our government is just printing money. They're just siphoning money out, like they gave,

2:05:13they're giving money away to these different like, well, I think they gave up, I think they gave up. I think that they gave, they knew that this thing's gonna collapse. The society, you mean? Well, the financial system that they set up, it's 40 trillion the whole, man, like you can't, there's no way to get out of it, impossible, right? And they know that. And so like for me, I look at it, I analyze it, like I think they gave up already. There's gonna have to be a reset, there's gonna have to be some sort of, and that's what the digital dollar is gonna be, right? It's gonna be a reset. I just hate that it's gonna be programmable, right? That's what they need to get rid of. Like what do you mean when you say that? Well, if you look it up, digital currency, have them look it up and it's all programmable, which means they can say, you can't buy gas on Tuesdays, and guess what, your card will not work on Tuesdays, so it's programmable. They could give it direction. If they have certain coins they are, but Bitcoin isn't necessarily programmable, right? Bitcoin ain't, but the US, the US, the digital dollar will be, right? Okay, got it. US digital dollar is a proposed central bank digital currency that would be issued and backed directly by the Federal Reserve

2:06:16as a digital form of physical cash. Government backed, unlike decentralized cryptocurrencies, like Bitcoin or private stablecoins, a CBDC, the central bank digital currency, would be official legal tender backed by the US government. It would represent a direct digital liability of the Federal Reserve available to the general public. Wow. Ask if it's programmable. They don't wanna tell you that part. Just put it in there, is it programmable? Cause this for sure is, and that's the thing that people need to be asking questions about. Is it programmable? Whether a US digital dollar would be programmable is one of the most heavily debated aspects of its potential design, and the Federal Reserve has explicitly stated it would oppose making it programmable. For retail users. For retail users. So what are you saying that means? So what happens is just like they got these cars coming out where they could turn them off, right? They'll be able to turn your money off really easy, like easier than it's ever been in human history. So throughout human history, it started with barter in and then coins and then paper, right?

2:07:19The human has always had the ability to trade something for something, right? And you can do it in a private setting or a public setting, right? With this, there'll be no more private ever. That's gone. And some people say, well, if you're not doing anything wrong, but what happens is, as you can see through time that laws change, where you thought it wasn't wrong, this day is not wrong, this day, right? And that's where this gets dangerous, because like explain it to me a little bit better, it's kind of like the truckers that were in Canada that were protested and then the Canadian government turned their accounts off, right? I'm sure you remember that, right? And it's just like Kanye West, when he was like speaking out against, I don't know exactly what it was, but I don't know if it was like Jewish people, or it's just some things he said or things about the record industry, it's something like they cut off some of his... Oh yeah, the D Bankian, all the D Bankian. Yeah, but this they won't have to D Bankian, let's just turn it off, it's just programmable. But it's kind of the same, right? AIs not being too honest right now about this, because it's saying it possibly,

2:08:19because these cats here, they don't tell you the truth all the time. And but the engineers believe me, they're putting the programmables in the digital dollar, right? With the digital dollar, then be accountable or no? It's a good question, we could try. How we could try, man? I would love to try. We can't use pain on this though. No, we just have to figure out a break into the system. But no, I mean, this, here's the thing, I hope that you'll have the states that pass, like Florida's past laws, where you can't refuse cash, you know? But in other countries, there are, you see all these kids are raised on their phone, paying with their phone. Yeah, right? That's crazy to me. Like I see that and I'm like, man, I don't even like to have my phone on me, right? And you're letting it do everything for you, from your money, to your life, to your social media, to your dating, to your... Like, we've just gotten, we've just gotten so addicted, we've gotten so used to it. I think it's hard to separate that. And I think a lot of people don't realize

2:09:22the depth of the surveillance, you know? Oh, now they got flat cameras going up, they got, you know, I mean, it's getting really interesting, you know? And, you know, for me, because I was a ghost, I pay attention to that stuff, real carefully, you know? Not because I'm doing anything wrong, it's because I want to be free, right? And at the end of the day, you know, this is what I look at this country, you know? Like, I love this country. I've been on every road that there is probably, right? I've been in so many towns in this country, man. And I've watched the middle part of the country just disappear, right? Where there was a time where I would drive through a town and it looked a little bit alive and then five years later drove through it and it had boarded up windows and everything, right? We've seen the same, and then even just said. Yeah, oh, it's hard breaking. Well, like just like, yeah, it feels like our government has just sold everything out, that was good from here. It's like they've let it just let it be siphoned out. I think they gave up. I think they gave up. I think they gave up. I don't, did they give up or were they, I mean, it seems a lot more like they were.

2:10:22Well, they were siphoned in, now they gave up, right? Now they're looking like, oh, just let's give what we can. It's gonna, it's gonna get reset. The digital dollar divide right here, it says, the Anti-CBDC Act would bar the Federal Reserve from issuing, piloting or implementing any digital currency design for general public use. The Bill supporters led by representatives Tom Emmer, French Hill, this is awesome that they're fine, a bill for this. This is the first time I've seen this. Site risks of government surveillance and programmable money pointing to China's digital yuan as a cautionary example of state control over individual financial behavior. Banking industry groups argued that retail CBDCs would enable consumers to bypass commercial banks entirely, potentially destabilizing credit, intermediation. I, so China already does it. They do the programmable, right? But if that becomes here, then it's like, yeah, if you didn't spend your money appropriately, it would just be cut off or also. Yeah, no more buying cocaine.

2:11:23That's right, which is good for me, which is good for me. But also, if you spend a money where they don't like it, or you're paying for a service that they don't like, they could cut your money off. If it's something that they deem that isn't right, or if you're even paying to see, you say you're paying to see a speaker that says things that the government doesn't like, they could cut your money off. Yeah, it's terrible, man. It's terrible. That's super scary. Yeah, no, it's, you know, like, but when my hope is, it's like, you know, well, the good thing is I'm learning how to create currency with my art, right? So now that I'm an artist, you know, like I, it's been 13 years, 10 years professional artists, you know, the first time it, you know, that I got into the industry was when I met Arnold Schwarzenegger. I got to go out to his house and have a show, sold a bunch of art. And it was bad ass, man. I mean, here I am two years out of prison, shit ain't working, can't get nothing going. You know, the catch of their means are all right there. And here it is, I feel like I'm about to go back to printing,

2:12:26catch Tori kind of, you know, scoops me in. I worked for him a little while. And then I end up going to Florida. I remember you told me about some of this and being in a show. Yeah, I was in a show. Well, before we get into something else, let me just, I want to go a little bit further about like, because like Bitcoin is like, because say something is a money, right? It's just because we all agree that money has value, right? Like if tomorrow everybody used to agree to didn't have value, then it wouldn't. It wouldn't. And that goes for a lot of things. Like, and I reference art because like really, what does, how do I sell a painting for 10 grand that I sold for a thousand, five years ago? Right. Right. How do I do that? How do I make it valuable, right? And that's the same thing with paper. And actually, on the old money, the 1800s money, it looks like little pieces of art. And the reason they did that is because in old timers didn't want to give up their gold, right? So they had to make the paper look valuable, right?

2:13:26So if you look at, look at this money, man, some of this stuff is beautiful, right? Look at the educational series, the 1896 educational series. I mean, that thing is just unbelievable. And so they had to make this stuff look valuable, and then they made gold illegal, right? To get the old timers to give up the gold. Like, look at this stuff. That's a $5 bill. You see that? Nobody has seen a $5 bill like that. Look how beautiful that is. It looks like a piece of art, right? So it's all about really kind of trickery, a little bit, a little sire, right? You give the, and then the way they created the system, right? The system for us really kicked in after World War II, right? That's when they really created the financial structure, right? How America would loan money to different countries, and then they would buy goods, and then it would create the system, right? But what happens is they just dug too deep into it, right? I mean, it could have been an unbelievable system, right? Right, but then people sort of manipulating things that happen in certain countries. There's sort of this, I mean, we just had a guy

2:14:26on who was talking about secrets, societies, that manipulate things at a higher level. Oh, way higher. So now this country has to, we have immigrants that are going from here because we caused starvation here. Are we stopped if we put a fuel embargo here? And so now this country is going to behave like this. And so it's like, and they're all betting on that at a higher level. I want to get this point out there. Franklin, President Franklin Roosevelt signed Executive Order 61.02 on April 5th, 1933, which largely outlawed the private ownership of gold, coin, bullion, and certificates in the United States. The Great Depression widespread bank failures caused citizens to hoard gold, shrinking the circulating money supply. So, but then when they bought it back, sorry, in order to, but when they bought it back from them, I know that they bought it, they made everybody kind of give their gold, and then they sold it back to them at a cheaper rate. Let me see that. Americans had to turn in their gold to a federal reserve bank by May 1st, 1933.

2:15:29The government paid citizens $20.67 per Troy ounce of gold. Yeah, 10 years in prison if you didn't do it. Yeah, as ever says violations, violations carried penalties of up to $10,000 fine or 10 years in prison. And then in January 1934, FDR raised the official price of gold to $35 per ounce, increasing the Treasury's value in deval... And devaluing the dollar. So they gave 20 and they raised 35. I mean, that's crazy. Money, like even, like I look at how they changed, like when they changed the bill to the new purple thing, like that really was fascinating to me that I was able to create something that caused them to change the whole system, you know? Are you sure that that was the cause of it? Oh yeah, I mean, yeah, they need the paper, you know, the paper, there was too many people doing it, you know, they had to fix it, they had to fix it, but, you know, and soon, you know, like you, I look at my art kind of like historic art because soon there won't be currency.

2:16:30Soon there won't be paper currency, you know? And so for me, it's almost like I'm preserving history through my pieces that every piece I make that it's gonna be historical. It's all about... It's a lot of it's printer on actual money. Oh yeah, the canvas itself. Yeah, I print, yeah, I love the print. Yeah, maybe one time you're in town, I'll print with you, there's a sheet of money. Bro, yeah, I'll give you one. I'll give you a little one, doc, yeah. But I paint right over it, man, I love it. You know, look at that. Now, now this sheet on the thing, that's just popping. Oh no, it's awesome, man, I love it. Yeah, so I still get to print, you know? Like it's just awesome that I get to do it, but you know, soon currency will be gone, you know? And it'll be digital and it's gonna be an interesting time in humanity, like big time. Like it's gonna get, it's gonna get, like I get more nervous about that than AI. I think AI is kind of a little bit of hoaxy because the shit don't really work well. Yeah, I agree, the shit's kept. The data centers are good for the robots. I'm telling you, they're making that shit for the robots. Oh, the data centers, just I think it's to store

2:17:31a lot of information from all the surveillance information. When you think about, Oh yeah, that too. They're activating surveillance and how they're, what they're gonna need, I think there's a lot of, I think there's a lot of future stuff that's gonna be super scary, and I don't know if we're ready for it, but we don't have a choice but to go into it, it doesn't look like, cause it doesn't look like anything is gonna save us, or you can move to a country that doesn't have it. You know? Like you bringing it to people so they understand it so we can go into it the right way, right? I really is about just information. Like teaching the people the things where they can make a choice to make this world better, right? And that's what's awesome about podcast now because you guys get to actually inform people about things that are happening so that maybe it could change. Like to have hope, I wanna have hope that even if they change the money, even if they have some events that somehow humans will find a way to thrive, right? And we need a heat, we need like a new mail, gifts we need a new patriot, you know? New patriot, yeah. We need a new patriot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Art Williams, you have your studio now, people can find it online.

2:18:32Yeah, I got a Julius Davinci.com. I got Julius Davinci.com. Yeah, and then I had a art to J Williams, junior.com, my name, and then I got a gallery in Chicago on Clark and Diversity, just started showing other artists, which is kind of cool, because. Oh, that's cool stuff. Yeah, and I like to go see art. And then you gotta come to the gallery, man, you know, you'll dig it, man. I got a printing press there. Do you? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, I got a printing press there. And one thing I wanted to go into real quick, what are the top, can you look up, Trevor, and what are the top things that can be counter-fitted? Close, bags. Okay. The medications are a big thing. The 10 most counter-fitted products in the world. Let's see them. Food products. Food. Oh, it's 10. I think that food products and one of them brands of food could be counter-fitted, but that is increasingly the case, especially as food prices around the world continue to rise and company charges. Yeah, it's an interesting one, huh? And company charges are premium for the brands, whether it be coffee, chocolate, or fruit, for example, in Canada, the most popular and profitable coffee store chain is named Tim Hortons

2:19:34after a hockey player. However, in South Korea, people are sold Tim Hortons coffee, which is a blatant knockoff of the popular Canadian caffeine product, huh? Designer labels tags. That's pretty obvious. Computers. Computers. I wouldn't have thought that, but I guess it makes sense because you do hear people like on Facebook, Marketplace and stuff like I went to buy this computer and it was cat. Yeah. Pharmaceutical drugs. Movies still. Fake pills. Oh, movies, yeah, like in third world countries. Sneakers and shoes, that makes sense. Smart phones. Jewelry. Jewelry and accessories. Money's not even on there. Watches for sure, handbags, purse, as wallets. No money. No money. Man, I gotta get money on there. Yeah. Yeah, figure out the digital. You'll figure it out. No, I'm done. I'm tired, man. Look, art Williams, man, thanks so much to you for hanging out. Thanks so much for just telling us about your story. Congrats on, I mean, in the end, you were kind of just an artist, man. Yeah, really? And I'm just an artist, but yeah, it's not.

2:20:34I said, wait, there's some shit that's just shit. We have you're an artist and you're locked in, you're stuck in like criminal type shit. Then of course, you're gonna start your art and criminal type shit. And these days, dude, everybody should be able to make their own fucking money. You know what I'm saying? If the government's just printing that shit and just handing it out, we could give classes. Yeah. Dude, it might not be a bad idea. Crazy deal, Vaughn, making money classes, man. Hey, TBD, man. And you have a book, I don't want to forget the last counter-fitter. Art, man, thank you so much, dude. Yeah, I appreciate this. And it's been awesome, brother. Yeah, I appreciate it. Tell Pennelli, I said, what's up? Yeah, I love it. Yeah, happy. Now, I'm just floating on the breeze, and I feel I'm falling like these leaves I must be. Cornerstone. Oh, but when I reach that ground, I'll share this piece of mind I found. I can feel it in my bones. I thought it's gonna tell you.