5.10 Brenton Ford

0:00It's episode 10 of An Open Water Swimmers podcast, this year in association with Swans Goggles, the oldest Goggle company in the world, and also in association with Ocean Lou, the ocean-friendly anti-chafing skin green that saves your skin and protects our oceans. I've been wanting to get Brenton on the podcast for some time, I'm a big fan of his YouTube channel Effortless Swimming, and he pops up really regularly across social media showing off his coaching talents and all the people that he's helping swim faster with less effort, I suppose. He very nearly made Olympic trials as a swimmer, as an Australian where the competition is more than fierce, I mean that is quite an achievement. And not that long ago, he's from the 20 kilometers of the famous Rotnest swim. He's a national master's record holder and was Australian national master's coach of the year in 2012. He coaches full-time now, running clinics, camps and master's groups, and his story is about staying in something you love, helping others achieve their goals, and how difficult it is to heed your own advice as a coach when you're swimming, and of course building

1:03a branded business around the sport we all love. It's Brenton Ford, I'm absolutely delighted to finally have on the podcast, someone I've been meaning to have on for quite some time, who I've been following his YouTube channel and the way he coaches, which is all brilliant, rich stuff, the amazing Brenton Ford. Thank you for coming on the podcast. That made me really, really pleased to be on and glad we could organise this. Yeah, yeah. After a couple of full starts, I think it's great. So Brenton, I'm just going to dive straight in, very simply, you know, why do you swim? Not everyone starts in the open water. This is an open water swimmer's podcast, so it might be, why did you take up swimming? Why do you continue to swim? And what is it about the water? In your case, you know, this rich coaching environment that you've begun to foster, that keeps you coming back for more. But my granddad and my dad were both swimming coaches, and they coached me as a kid, so I got thrown into the water at a very young age, and it was just something that we did. We're always around the pool, and nothing that we're ever forced to do, but it was just something that we did.

2:05And I swam competitively up until I was about 18, and just off Olympic trial level, like I'd missed out by 0.03 on qualifying for the Olympic trials. So I would never have made the Australian team or anything like that, but I was a reasonable competitor, but I just loved training. I loved the feeling that I got from putting in hard work in the pool and giving whatever I had on the day. And then I started open water swimming really at about 2021. And it was something that I, I wouldn't say I loved straight away because I wasn't that good at it compared to swimming in the pool. But now it's just something that like I'm 38 now, and I, as outside of COVID, I hadn't spent more than about a week out of the water. Like I'd always, always trained, always tried to get into the water in some capacity. And it's just something that always, it just draws me, draws me to it. And I live down here in Torque, down at the coast.

3:07And it's just something that if I am not somewhere near the coast, I feel like I, a little bit sort of claustrophobic if I'm too far inland. So there's just something about the water, particularly the ocean, that just really draws me to it. I think it's hard to describe, but I think people who, who love to swim in the open water, they, they just know that attraction that it, that it has just something about looking out to, for me, like looking out to see the horizon. It's just something that's, yeah, that I just can't get away from. Yeah, I mean, it's, I mean, you, everything you're saying that rings very, very true for many, for many people who enjoy the water. But to have created a business out of it, and a very successful business from, from where I'm sitting in England, I look at, you know, I look at your amazing, the amazing way you coach the amount of people that flock towards you to have, you know, stroke correction or to be, to be coached by your, by the master's group you teach. You know, how do you go from that decision of being, you know, of being in a very, very

4:09small percentage of, of a global athlete's really, to have nearly made Olympic trials? That's, you know, that's still in my, from my barometer, I've hugely successful career as an athlete, how do you go from that to where you are now as being, as having fostered a business that's, that's, you know, that is encompassed by your passion? Well, I, I started the business in my last year of university, because I didn't really know what I wanted to, to do, but I thought, I'll, I've got a friend who's on the Australian team. Let's put together a kind of a freestyle coaching program where people could learn how to improve their freestyle, because I was coaching at the time, but I never saw that as a, as a profession that I was going to do full time, it was something that I absolutely loved, but I never saw her as something that I'd, I'd continue to do, but we started the business then, and just over time, I started to do a little bit more coaching with the clinics, eventually added on some, some camps, and I was coaching a master's team at the time in Melbourne, and I just loved coaching the adults.

5:09It was something like, they all wanted to be there, well, I had some really good friends, I've still got great friends from, from that master's club, and just that sort of, like the culture, the people, that was something that I, I just loved, and it didn't really feel like work to me, and I've been running effortless for me for about six years, it was, I wouldn't have called it successful at all, but it was starting to sort of get, you know, kind of get our feet under us, and my wife was about to have, we were going to try for a kid, and she said, oh, I'm not going to be working, so you better, like, make this thing work, or you've got to go and get like a real job, basically, and I thought, well, you're not wrong, I should actually just stop surfing and doing a bit of coaching on the side, and just kind of dabbling in this effortless swimming thing, and take it seriously. And so, and so I did, and so we started to run more clinics, run more camps, and I basically put out more videos, and that sort of thing, so it's like, I've been running it for nearly 19 years now, and it was, so it was no overnight success, and I think with, with most things,

6:14if you just stick at it, and you just keep persisting like you, you can only fail if you quit, and so I mean, people sort of look at maybe how much reach we've got, and what we're doing now, but it's, it's been a very long time coming, and there was so many points where I could have stopped, and I could have quit, and I wouldn't have been wrong in doing so, I'm really glad it worked out, because for me to be able to, to coach and work with adults, and especially some of us who aren't necessarily fast, you know, there might be like a two-minute study swimmer, they might be like a two-minute swimmer, like often, for me, I really like working those swimmers, because there's so much room for improvement, but I know a lot of other coaches love to work with the very top-end athletes who are making the Olympics or trying to make a national team or things like that, but for me, I just, I just love working with people who are relatively new to the sport, I love being able to teach the fundamentals, and those things that are, for me, I think makes a really good swim stroke, because for a lot of people it doesn't come

7:16natural, and they just, they don't know, they don't know, and I just really love kind of, yeah, focusing on those sorts of things, and I think that's why we've kind of got to the point where we are, because yeah, those things, those fundamentals, like I've tried to dig into those as much as possible to understand them for myself, because there's a kid I would watch videos of, like, Ian Thorpe and Michael Phelps, and try and learn as much as I could from, from those guys and their coaches, and then I think when you, when you take, you have all those inputs, then you sort of have to mix it up and then figure out a way to deliver it yourself, and what, what rings true to you, and it took me a long time, it took me probably about eight years to sort of figure that out, and come up with my own style, I guess, in a way, but it's really just an amalgamation of all these different coaches and athletes and people that I've learned from, and I'm glad that it kind of rings true for a lot of people, the, the way that I teach, because I think how simply you can explain something is how well you can understand it, and so I try and keep things as simple

8:18as, as possible, and I think that's, hopefully, resonates with a lot of people. Yeah, definitely, I mean, I watch your videos with absolute joy, seeing the improvements in in lots of swimmers and the way you deconstruct stroke. I mean, I often ask swimmers, and you know, I'm sort of asking you as a coach here, because it's rare that I have, I have, you know, rare, I have coaches on who have such an affinity for the water, a lot of coaches that I've talked to in the past, not on the podcast, you know, they're not, they're not people who swim anymore, you know, they, their time in the water is kind of over, which I don't, I don't think it's true for you. I mean, in terms of your kind of mental health and mental well-being, in terms of what swimming does for you as a swimmer, does it have the same resonance for you as a coach in terms of your mental well-being, because we get so much feedback from swimming? Does the same thing happen as a coach in seeing, in seeing that effect to other people? Yeah, it's, I mean, I, I look at the group of open water streamers here in Turkey where I live in, like every day, Rainhill, shine like they are out there every day, and they, and they've got a really good sort of group of

9:19group of friends, and like it's just something that, this become a part of their life, and so, and I've got a really good squad that I, I swim with, so I sort of, I write the programs in this sort of 15, 20 of us at a session, and I just love being around those kinds of people, especially in the morning, and I think for a lot of people it is, it's just, it keeps them saying, it's, it's what they love, but it really just keeps them, them saying, and I personally feel, if I haven't swam for a couple of days, I get edgy. I, I have this build-up of energy that I'm just, I need to get this out somehow, but really the, the best way is to just get into the water, whether that's in the, in the pool or in the ocean, that's something that I think is very, there's so many different, so many swimmers just, just feel that, and, and for them it really just kind of gives in this, this zen state that if they're working a job and they're on the computer, as long as they've swam in the morning, they can just chill out and they can sit there and work, and that's what I feel every, every time I go, yeah, go for a swim, so it is certainly something that,

10:22I feel like it's no matter where you are, that's one of the main things that you, you get out of swimming, and for, for me growing up, my dad was my coach, but I saw a lot of different coaches, I sort of looked at them and I thought, I never want to be, I would never want to be one of those coaches who just, doesn't like swimming, his club just let themselves go, I sort of saw that as a kid, and wanted to move away from that, so, I've, yeah, that's why I still, I still swim, and I don't think, oh, I'll never stop swimming, it's just something that's, that's a part of my life, and I see myself as a swimmer, and I don't think that'll ever change. That's nice, I like that, I think we all see ourselves as swimmers, no matter when we've come to the sport, you know, if we've achieved something, then we take on that mantra, so carking back, then, you know, you talked about the fact that your dad was your coach, what are your earliest memories then, because obviously on being on Australian, the water is part of your kind of foundation in Australia, isn't it? I mean, you know, there are countless 50 meter pools within, you know, walking distance to most houses, as I understand it, you know, what are your earliest

11:26memories then of the water and the open water in Australia? Well, I vaguely remember some training sessions with my granddad, he passed away when I was eight or nine, so he passed away, and I was pretty, pretty young, and then my dad took over the coaching, so I asked my parents how did I learn to swim, and they said, well, we never put you in swim lessons, we never taught you to swim, we just took you to the pool, and you sort of figured it out, and so I've tried to take that on with my kids, where we've got them in swim lessons, but I'm just very casual about, I'm not pushing them, basically, because I just don't want them to not like the water, so trying to just do the same thing and let them figure it out, but then in terms of the open water, so I remember hating the beach until not loving the beach or the open water until I was about 18, and the reason for that was, I didn't like sand, that was the first thing, but the second thing was,

12:29as kids, we never had wet suits, and down here, it's cold, the water is about, can get down to about 12, which some people might listen to that and go, well, that's not cold, but yeah, 12 degrees is cold with no wet suits, it's cold enough, it's cold enough, so yeah, we'd go down and no wet suit, we'd play for a long time, but we'd just be cold, so it wasn't until I started surfing, at 18, that I really started to love being in the ocean, and then I obviously started to do more open water swimming and competing, and I did the Rhynest Island swim, all the Rhynest Channel swim, which was my first lonely marathon swim so far, but yeah, then I just started to enjoy it after that, so I do find it funny that I just never liked the beach, but now it's just something that I can't get myself away from, so things can change, but yeah, it is something that I can't live without now. So that's interesting that the Rhynest was your first and only

13:30marathon swim, firstly, how was that, and secondly, why do you feel like it's been your only one, I mean, do you feel like it's something you would come back to at some point, if not, why not? This was in between my first and second child, so I sort of was able to fit it in between them, I would certainly come back and do another one for sure, and I'm doing the Lake Argo swim as a team, which is a 20k swim, but they'll be four of us, so I'm doing that next year, but I think for me, coaching kind of has to be my number one priority for now, as it's my job, I guess, so I'm just not that driven to do a marathon swim for me at the moment, I get to see so many people who are doing them, and I get a lot of joy out of helping those people train for those swims, so I think that's probably why, because it is a big commitment, obviously, to train for a marathon swim, and just with all the stuff sort of going on, I have to let that take a backseat,

14:35but the Rhynest channel swim, I really love the training for it, even though at times I've got a bit monotonous, it was a bit boring, but I look back and it was just such a great experience, that sort of five, six months leading up to it. I got a little bit hypothermic about 13, 14k's into the 20k swim, and looking back now, like I didn't notice it at the time, I thought, I am so cold here, but I didn't realise I was hypothermic, but my pace went from like, I think it was like a low 120's for the first 13, 14k's, and then it blew out to like a 145, and so it was a good sign, yeah, the things weren't in the town, weren't great. That's pretty quick, but still very quick, you know, by most people's standards, as one would expect from a swimmer of your calibre, I mean, like coming back to that notion of, I mean, I've talked to lots of swimmers who have a similar history to you, whose muscle memory is so ingrained and is so, it's just so on point that, you know, for them to swim, you know,

15:40a 10, 20k at a very low pace, you know, they could pretty much do it in their sleep based on their kind of history. I guess my question to you is, I mean, it seems like when you train for something, you're, you know, I guess you're training to, I mean, rottenest is a race, I suppose, it in the day, so that gives its own, so instead of circumstances, is there, is there, is there a part of you that could come to the rottenest swim, I guess, this is quite a, quite a roundabout question, is there a part you could come to the rottenest swim again, and just, and just swim to complete it, and just take it easy based on your muscle memory and what you know, or is there still that drive to actually compete and swim it hard and fast? Definitely the second one, that's, that's for sure, I don't, I tell myself, and I feel like, oh, like it results, I'm not, I don't really care about results, I'm not that competitive, but once you're actually in there, it's like, no, I actually don't want to, I want to win, I want to win this. But then, yeah, afterwards, let's say things don't go well and say, well, I don't really care, you know, so it's like, I think in the, in the heat of the moment, in the race, I want to, I want to do well. So, but yeah, I don't know, I find my competitive

16:46drive isn't certainly as much as it used to, used to be, it's like, I've gotten nothing to prove, but then I think when you are racing, it's like, you just, you just can't take that out of yourself, and I see that with a lot of the older, the oldest ones that I coach, or the oldest ones that I train with, like they are, yeah, they are, they're still competitive, you know, whether they're 50, 60, like, 70 years of age, they still want to do, do well. And I had a, I had a guy, a guy sterile, he's from Sydney, he came along to a swim camp in the, the Witt Sundays, and I think he was, I think he was, say mid 70s, I think, he, amazing swimmer, still keeping up with the group, I think he was the, he was almost the oldest person to cross the English channel, but I think someone beat him by like, he was like two weeks older than him or something, and he did it, like just after him, amazing swimmer, and he, he still wants to improve his stroke, he's still working on things, still getting filming done, and so like, I love to see that, and I want to be like that when I'm older, it's just like, well, I'm not just, I'm not on the

17:49bit of a climb, I can still get better at things, and I love seeing that with, with older athletes. Definitely, and I think stroke changes, you know, no matter, no matter, I'm certainly in my case, you know, I'm certainly, as you're trying to improve, or even if you're not trying to improve, stroke definitely changes, as habits grow, and we ingrain things, and suddenly, you know, suddenly something's hurting, it's never hurt before, because we've just had a tiny alteration, you know, I think it's really important, we stay on top of these things, and that's where, you know, people like yourself become invaluable in our sport, because, you know, no one, no one, as we've talked about, no one wants to be out of the water for too long, especially when it comes to, when it comes to being injured, so I think that's, that's crucial, and it must be very satisfying for you to see that in athletes who are constantly trying to improve, and perfect, and refine, because otherwise, otherwise, we're just, otherwise, we're just, sort of just ingraining bad habits, right? Yeah, that's, that's right, and there's, there's no reason why you can't improve, you can't change something, it's like, well, yes, obviously, habits, they get ingrained, and it can be a challenge to change them for good, but there's no reason why

18:52you can't get better, and I think all of us, as some are like, we're doing that many strokes, that there's that many opportunities to, to get better with things, and we're always just mindful of how we feel in the water, and what our stroke's doing, and so it's something that, it's something that, like, why not focus on it, because we're going to be there anyway, we're already doing it, and, and there's so many different aspects that you can, you can focus on, so I think it's, that's half the challenge for, for people, that's like, that's half the enjoyment, is all all right, well, how can I actually get better, lots of things I can think about, what's the thing that's going to make the difference for me, and I find that with my own stroke too, like, I sort of chop and change what I'm, what I'm thinking about, but it's, I just love that challenge of trying to figure it out, especially in the moment, you know, if you're, if you're training, you're going through a hard set, you know, you're just always trying to find that little one percent improvement, or you look up at the clock, and all right, how can I get a second quicker, I think that's, yeah, that's the enjoyable part about it, always trying to improve, and I think

19:54that goes through with a lot of other different parts of your life as well, that, you know, we just kind of get in this, in this mind space or headspace of, how can I get faster, and then, you know, hopefully that goes into the, the other aspects of your, of your life, and I think generally, my dad's always told me, he said, like, if you're a swimmer, you're getting up early in the morning, you're training, how many of your friends are doing that? Like, when we're at schools, like, none of our friends would get up before seven o'clock, and they certainly wouldn't get up at quarter past four to do anything. And so he, he, he, I said, like, you know, you want to employ swimmers because swimmers are people who are willing to get up early, work hard, good work, ethic. So I think it really attracts a good type of person. That's right. And I, I fact, I read something today online where a swimmer was saying, you know, one of my sets as a 16-year-old kid, every Monday, I'd have to wake up at four o'clock in the morning, like you just said, and do, and do 12 or 400 IMs. You know, and I know that since, since that moment in my life, I know, I can,

20:55I can do anything. I can do anything now, as a result. And I like that adage, of course, everything's relative, you know. But, but it's interesting. So that's a lovely adage for life, I suppose. So what does open water swimming, or what does swimming, I suppose, mean to you now, as a father, having gone through all those kind of rights of passage, you know, as a very sharp end of the sport athlete, how has your relationship grown and changed with the water, you know, to where you were then, as a, as a young, you know, as a young kind of, you know, very good swimmer being coached by your dad, to where you are now introducing your kids to the water, you know, can you chart that journey of what your relationship with the water's like now? That's a great question. It's certainly changed now, where I think back in the, back when I was younger, I was training eight, nine times a week. And I love, I love the feeling of swimming, but it was very, it was hard. Like, I just remember always being tired. And at, I think, 13, 14 years of age, I remember like looking in books, there's no Google land, but I remember

21:59reading, looking in books of like, how can I be less tired? And obviously, the answer is, like, sleep more, but I just remember looking, looking at that. So it was something that I certainly enjoyed, but now being an adult, you can, you can determine what you want to do. I can choose this one as much as I, as I want. And I only get to the pool only three times a week, but I will often surf a few times a week and be down at the beach a bit. So it's, it's something that I, every day I want to try and get to the water in some capacity. And so to me, it's just, it's something that's part of my daily life and my routine. And it feels like something's missing if I'm, if I'm not in there. And then with the kids, like, I just, I just want the kids to be competent swimmers so that they can then explore and experience, I think the, the joy that is open water. And especially down here, there's, there's good surf, there's good waves. And I love seeing my kids now that they're certain to nine. And they just, they're fairly competent in

22:59the water, but they just love playing and, like, time gets lost. They stop thinking about video games. They stop asking for that. And they just kind of get lost in, um, lost in the water. So it's, yeah, to me, it's something that if it's not a part of my life, I feel like something's wrong. And I'd, I don't know how people can't, um, I don't know. I don't know how people can't have that as a, as part of their life. Yeah. I mean, the water, I think that one of the things that's been come back on this season quite a lot is this notion of the water being a, a space to play. And I think I often lose sight of that when I get knee deep in training and numbers and schedules. I forget, I forget that the water fundamentally is a space to play to, you know, which is, which is where that childlike state comes from. Do you, I mean, you have kids now, and I guess that might be reinforced when you are, you know, teaching your kids or when your kids are in the water with you. But is that something that you have to reinforce? So is that still part of, is that still very much part of the community spirit that you swim with, that real sense of fun and

24:03play? Yeah, that's, um, that's something that if, if you have that sense of play, it's obviously much more, more enjoyable, but it is hard when you're in the depths of training and you're like, all right, I've got to get my five K done today, you know, it's like, it can't be hard to remember that with the squad that I've, I've been running every now and then at least we tried throwing a few different, different things and, and fun things, even if it's just like dolphin dives, you know, for 50 meters, it's like, well, you can work on breath holding, uh, doing that, uh, you can work on a few different things with, uh, yeah, with different kind of, I guess, drills and, and skills and things like that. So even just doing some like packswimming, uh, or we do, uh, sometimes we do toeing, so someone grabs someone's foot, person, front's working hard, and the person that back is, is just kicking. Like we'll just kind of do some silly stuff like that, which still has a benefit, but it is kind of fun. And as adults, you know, it's like, I think it's easy to, to, to avoid that, because like, well, I'm, I'm a grown adult, I've got a, I've got an important job, you know, it's like,

25:06I'm not, I'm too, you know, I'm too grown up for that. Um, but like, yeah, the adults love it more than the kids, I think, um, yeah, when they get to do stuff like that. But then certainly, anyway, where there's waves, I think that really is, that lends itself to having fun. It's like, you, you know, just just riding waves or, um, yeah, like just playing, playing in the waves, that, that really kind of lends itself to that, yeah, that the play aspect of it. So, I mean, I, I'm the world's worst surfer, and I've been surfing for 15 years, I can stand up, I can go left, I can go right, but that's pretty much, that's pretty much the extent of my capacity. And I spent an ordinary amount of money on boards, and I never, I'm never, I'm never really, I'm 45, I'm never really going to get any better. And I, and I love that, I love that about, about surfing, because it's a really difficult sport. And I'm, you know, I'm happy with my level, I'm happy to get absolutely annihilated by big waves, and I'm happy to paddle out and, and try my luck. Whereas with swimming, you know, there is always, you know, it's always a level playing field, you always know where you are, and there's, you know, there's always things for you to improve on that are, that are very

26:07microscopic, as of course, are in surfing, but I think one is much harder than the other to implement, right? And I was, you just remind me, there was this weekend, we had our, we had our, you know, we had our Christmas kind of set on a Saturday, where we all did relays, and we're, you know, filling in Christmas trees, and doing, and doing silly things. And at the beginning of the set, I, because I knew I had to swim a certain amount to get my sort of weekly culture in, and I was, I was sitting there a little bit like just with my towel to my legs thinking, you know what, just, just, just get on with it and see what happens. And I really had a really fun time, and it was really beneficial, because again, it reminded, it reminded me of, you know, why we're here, that spirit of community, and, and, and all the things, all the things that, that, that you talk about about why we swim, because it is just as much a part of community as it is about ourselves. So, I guess being an on Australia, and I've, you know, this is probably a question you, you may have been asked a number of times, because it's synonymous with Australia, you know, is there a degree of fear factor for you when you, when you are open water swimming? And I'm not necessarily talking about sharks, because you know, that's, that's, that's so obvious. I'm talking more about, you know, the actual genuine fear of the water, genuine fear of, of, of the expanse of

27:12the water, genuine fear of the cold, you know, and I think that's very addictive for me as a swimmer, no matter where I'm swimming, I always, there always was an element of fear. Does that resonate with you at all, or are you just completely at, at comfort and at ease? I've talked to Australians before, they're like, no, I'm not scared of anything. I'm like, okay, great. No. Yeah. No, it just doesn't, no, I, like, it, I just, it's, I've never, yeah. It's okay to say no, like, I, I've a great friend of mine who's been on the podcast before we live in Sydney, he, he, he, he looked at me and said, no, what are you talking about? Shout out, nothing, nothing scares me. And that's great, but, but why? I think it's just, but when you're around, when you're so used to doing something, and you see so many other people doing the same thing, you just, it just doesn't register as a, as a scary thing. So I mean, that looked, there are certainly times and places where I probably wouldn't, I probably wouldn't swim in terms of, if there's like a big feeding frenzy going on, like, yeah,

28:16at the back behind the, the waves, like that, you still have to be smart about things, but yeah, I think a lot of swimmers, especially in Australia, they, they've got the mindset of look, if anything were to happen, with the shark, it's like, well, it's, it's my time and it's not a bad way to go. Obviously, we don't want it to happen, but I think that's the mindset of a lot of swimmers, especially ones I've spoken to. But yeah, I think it's, the fear is probably overblown, a bit like you just don't get that many, many attacks, but even with like, bad conditions and big waves and stuff like that, I, I'm certainly not, not afraid of that. But the funny thing is I get, I want, obviously, a lot of clinics, nearly everyone who come, who's lived in England, who grew up in England, they say, I grew up in England, so I, I never swam as a, as a kid, so I'm not a strong swimmer. It's just like, it's kind of the, it feels like it's the mentality of people who have come from, from England. And so, but I look, what I want to get across

29:19doesn't mean you're not a swimmer. It's just like, well, okay, you've had less experience, but just try not to use those words of, I'm not a swimmer, because I think if you tell yourself that, well, it's going to make, it's going to take longer to, to progress and get better, because it's just like, yeah, try and get rid of those, that vocabulary. Yeah, for sure, for sure. I mean, I, like, but there's so many things to think about in, in the Australian Wars. And I mean, I, I don't know the geography necessarily in terms of where things live in, you know, Melbourne, relative to, you know, Darwin or anywhere like that. But, you know, do you, do you not have to worry about jellyfish down where you are or, you know, do you have stinger suits still? I mean, there's, there's so much going on compared to, you know, the sea here in Brighton, where, you know, it's, it's just, it's just a bit chilly. Yeah. So up north in certain six months of the year, you, you really wouldn't be swimming because of the Ericangie. And like, is that these, that's a deadly jellyfish that no one's, no one's going to swim with. So you, you swim six months the year where they're not around.

30:20So like, there's, there's that. But I've got, I've got a friend coming to stay with me tonight. And he, um, he lives up north, whereas at Northwest Australia. And he swims in, in Lake Cargoyle, and a few other places where there's freshwater crocs. And they, they see them all the time. And he's sent me pictures of like, oh, there's a, there's a crop. This is where I'm swimming today. So like, and I wouldn't do that. I'd be too afraid to do that. So yeah, I mean, each to their, each to their own. But I, I think for Mike, like, Insini in Melbourne, yes, there's blue bottles, there's sharks and things like that. But, um, you know, you just learned to learn to live with, live with them. And, um, yeah, I don't know if you've seen, I think it's Malibu artist on, on Instagram. It's like in California and San Diego or something like that. He posts drone videos of surfers and swimmers with sharks all the time. And the swimmers are oblivious to, to these sharks. But the sharks are just cruising along. They're not interested. So I kind of

31:20look at that and go, uh, we'll be fine. Yeah. Totally. I mean, we're in their environment and we're not really their food always. You know, if you just don't, if you're unfortunate enough to have a little nip and, you know, fingers crossed, you make it out okay. So like, that follows on nicely. I've always had a mantra whenever I've been swimming that was talked to me by, uh, a swimmer many, many years ago, which was always remember that the water wants you. So if I'm in the middle of a, you know, very long, horrible set, I'll just always remember that it's a privilege to be when that I'm swimming and always remember that the water wants me. It's a gift to be there. I mean, do you have any mantras that you yourself employ or indeed any mantras that you, you know, you give to other swimmers that you're coaching in order to kind of help them through those, those difficult moments. It's funny you say that because at the end of the rotten-ness swim and I was really struggling and struggling with the cold. I had to remind myself, I'm lucky to be here. It's a privilege to be here that, uh, you know, that I chose to do this. Like, that got me through the last five K when I was, when I was freezing cold. Uh, but one of the main, I guess,

32:23mantras or cues that I try and espouse in my coaching is that the more you try and force things, the slower you're going to go. So there's that dichotomy in the water where you need tension, obviously, but also you need to, to relax. You need to find a sweet spot of both of those, but often people just, people tend to just try and muscle things and force it too much. So if you can, if you can relax and just kind of work with the water, then you're going to swim a lot, a lot better. And one of the interesting things when I ran a camp with Chad and Ruth and I, one of the things that she would, would always talk about is, is, is really relaxing. And we're doing some TheraBand exercises. A lot of the summers were, sort of really tense. They're up in traps with, with tents, they were tight. And she sort of come up, she put their hand on their shoulder and just like, kind of just give it a bit of a squeeze, and just like relax, you know, just like, stop forcing things, just try and relax, even as you're going through these exercises. And watching her swim and watching her go through

33:24these TheraBand exercises herself, she's, she's got this beautiful balance of tension and, and relaxation. And so if you can find that, then you're going to swim a lot better. And, and the comparison that I would make with those, it's like when you pick up a glass of water, you're never going to grab it with all your might because there's no need. But you've got just enough tension to hold that glass in your hand, but no more. And so to me, that's the, the sweet spot with, with swimming. The good thing about open water swimming though, and I think long distance swimming is you're sort of forced to get into that, that place where you're relaxed, because you can't swim for, for three hours and be forcing it and be overly tense. So I think it just kind of lends itself to that, that style of swimming and getting into the zone and into the flow, where, where you can't distinguish our one from our two, because you're just, you're in that zone. So that's the thing I really like about, you know, good open water swim is you, is really feel that. That's so interesting. And yeah, you've hit the nail on the head there. I wanted to ask you this

34:25as well, because I think this is the appropriate time. How do you feel when you're coaching yourself, because I have this problem, because I do a little bit of coaching, and I write my own kind of, you know, sets, overview plans, long-term plan, and, you know, I turn up, and I'm effectively, you know, I'm heating my own advice. And that's often quite difficult. Do you have, do you, when you're doing that, just, you know, how does that manifest through you when you're having to sort of coach yourself? In terms of technique, I often get someone else to give me feedback. So one of the coaches that, she coaches with me, she, she gives me a bit of feedback. There's another coach in Brisbane, who I've worked a little bit with. So yeah, I like to get the technical feedback from someone else. I don't know why that is, but it's just like, I find that easier to, yeah, to just kind of take on board. I don't know, I just kind of need to be told by, by someone else. It's hard to analyse your own stroke in a way. And then in terms of training, I mean, I like setting their programs for the squad that I swim with. And because we've got

35:25other people there, it's like, well, yeah, it's, it's easy to do. But when I write my own training plan for, for right now, and it, I didn't mind that because I kind of like to be in control of things, but it, the thing that I, I just sort of set hammock as I wanted to do that week, and then I'd just try and feel it in with whatever, with whatever worked. But it, I think sometimes if it is easy, it's when you've got someone else there telling you what to, to do it in a way, because you're like, well, I've kind of got to do it for this person. So it is a challenge, just coaching yourself, especially as a coach. I mean, I think, yeah, that's, how do you find it in terms of, do you prefer to be? Yeah, I prefer to be told by someone else, but quite often I'm on my own in the pool, because I only swim with a club twice a week. So I often turn up, and I've written my set, and I have to say to myself, well, what would I say to myself now? Because I often duck out of, I'll have written myself quite a long warm-up, for example, because I've stolen that from someone I've, I've set it to. And I'd be like, and I'd turn up to pool, and I think, well,

36:27I don't want to swim that warm-up. I want to do the warm-up I know, and I'd like, and I know it's easy. You know, and I have to say to myself, what would I say to, you know, someone I was coaching, what would I say? Well, that's not constructive, you know, you're not going to learn in different room. And I kind of have to kind of almost become bipolar and tell myself why I should be doing what I should be doing, rather than, you know, sticking to what I know and putting myself outside of my comfort zone. And so I find that quite interesting, like, you know, I'm quite good at dishing out advice sometimes, but I'm not as good as taking that advice on myself to something that I would propagate, right? Which is why it's easier when someone else is saying it. I certainly agree with you on the coach, on the technical aspects. It's much easier when, you know, someone's telling you, you know, that you're where you're going wrong, because it's almost impossible to see in yourself. It is. I don't know what it is about it. Like, I've watched myself some a lot of times, but there's something there that's just like a barrier for me to not actually see what's really going on. I don't know. It's just a weird one. It's fascinating. I feel like I can pick it up very quickly with someone else. Yeah, it is fascinating. And I think, you know, I would always

37:29make excuses for myself if I'm looking at myself. In the same way that I, you know, in the same way I would say, well, it's only 10,000 warm up. You know, I can swim at however I like. What's what's the difference? You know, knowing that if I swim at the way I'm used to swimming, it's going to be much easier than actually the way that I would like someone else to swim at, you know, to me. And I think that's really interesting. And I hate myself for that, because I think I should be better. Yeah, well, it's the mechanic with the broken down car, isn't it? It's just like, you get around to everyone else, but then yours is like, you know, it's like, oh, like mine's just not as as important to it. It's just, yeah, no matter what profession you're in, I feel like it's when it comes to your own. It's hard. Yeah, it's hard to be on top of it. Yeah, it's very much safe. Well, I'm not, I'm not in the same league as you as a coach. So, you know, I think my, my problems are much smaller than I think yours. Yours may be on poolside. Brenton, that's lovely. So my final question to you is very simply, where was your last swim? And how was it? It was at, it was at the

38:33local pool with the trainings with my squad. And it was, I only got through half of it because I thrown out, I'd popped out my rib a few days before. And I was, so it was very disappointing, to be honest, but that doesn't happen often. So yeah, maybe not the answer you're looking for, but that's all right. I'll be, I'll be back in a few days and finishing off a full session. There you go. So that's exactly it. That's, that's the coach who has the accident who turns up to swim. Can't finish his own set. Exactly. That's perfect. I love it. What a lovely way to finish. Brenton, thank you so much for taking the time out of your morning to chat to me. That was, that was so lovely. And I'm so pleased we made this happen. Thank you. Thanks so much for having me on. And yeah, great work with the, with the podcast of, yeah, seeing it around the last couple of years and, you know, to continue with anything longer than a couple of episodes is an achievement in itself. And then to, you know, to have done it for four or five seasons now, like it's, that's awesome. So thanks for having me on. Thank you, Brenton

39:34for that chat. It's so nice to speak to someone who has such a passion for the sport. Obviously, if you haven't found his YouTube channel already, it's effortless swimming. Have a look at that. And there are hundreds of videos of helping people swim faster with less effort. It really is worth your while. I'll be back next week with another episode. So of course, until then, happy swimming.