377. Kyle Raymond Fitzpatrick & Ben Dietz

0:00Hello, hello Kyle Oh, it's gone. It's gone good. It's going good. Um, will your partner be joining us today or Um, I did I didn't hear back. I sent him To the funny story because I Emailed him early in the week and I was like, oh, does this work for earth? Does this work for you? He was like sure and then you emailed with this specific time scene. He was like does this work for you to me And then I had a crazy week last week and I didn't look until like yesterday was doing my emails and I was like oh shit So Here we are So my apologies. No, I'm assuming he will Yeah, he can jump in whenever he wants he can jump in whenever he wants but for now just the two for what it's worth He does come a little late to our podcast too So he might be writing up five minutes behind no way he does Fashionably wait

1:00He's a he's a busy guy busy guy busy guy, but okay, so when I caught you at air With your special guest Willa Bennett, uh, did you have green hair? I did really I ring a hat I had green hair. I don't remember if I was wearing a hat or not, but I had definitely had green hair The color is not changed. Okay. Okay, so all our listeners out here Kyle is Just the green is popping right now Thank you. It has been green now. I'm trying to see if I can find a photo, but like it has been green for Almost a decade now a decade Yeah, yeah, I think I Okay, I was wearing a blue hat. So like I can Where is my eye? Oh, I can't see myself. I was wearing a blue hat. Oh, okay. I so maybe that was water But like yes, my hair has been like a sharp truce since like 2018 2019. So it's nearly a decade

2:03No, I've done a few other colors in between, but like this was the color after doing a bunch of colors for years before that I was like This is it Might as well be might as well be born with it Exactly well exactly and like at this point for people who know like the trim report It just has become like branding and it works Like not just like I love the color anyway, but like it also is something that like This happened recently, but this that's part of why I kept it because I would go places and do things and people be like Oh, you're the guy with a green hair and it was like that's me. So like it just became an easy shorthand for like And I was at an event or was doing something or I like asked a question in a giant group I could always swallow up and be like I was a guy with green hair and everybody always remembers It's your signature look. Yeah, it's a signature. You were here before brat Uh, I was I don't think anybody will let me claim that but I was So thank you for saying that

3:08Do you think that When you started the trim report and I'm sure oh, oh me is in but you know, well, we'll let them wait When you started the trim report, uh, I'm not too sure if you were on v1 substack but Then when you saw Charlie come in You're like oh look who decided to join the party. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I've been on substacks since 2020 so like I have been I was definitely on Technically probably it's like v2 because like real OGs were like 2018 short whatever it doesn't matter but like Yeah, when she came in Something shifted and I don't know. I don't know. She did it but like it had been shifting But I think she was sort of like the shrawl that broke something like it's funny because after that The hip replacement conversation we had Uh, the the last group I was talking to This was being debated and they were like no, I don't like it. I you we do we see you enough

4:13We don't want you to be a think-piece person and like a Like cultural analyst like we all have to do yeah, and like which is different because they were like Lizzo though someone like Lizzo heard doing her thing is interesting because she sort of like in her flop era And like people in their flop era they're allowed to At least as a group and like I agree with this is people who are like on top of the world like I don't want to hear from you It's like I was like fair fair. I get I can agree with that. You can't infantry every space Right exactly. It's just like, you know, hey Stop fame is a gun and I'm gonna take it and I'm gonna hold it against your head Charlie like stop All right, I'll let Ben in I'll let Ben in now. Okay. Okay To join oh, oh, so we're gonna be walking and talking Amazing uh, I will not be I'm gonna sit down and just second. Sorry guys. I was uh In transit, but I am no longer it's all good. This is my bad for not having us a Confirmed earlier in advance, so it is all good then

5:16No worries at all. We were just talking about Celebrities now I'm trying to take every medium away from us so Okay, you're good at music Charlie xx and then now you want to write with no commas and punctuation And and then we got the moment We're never gonna have a moment. That's out. That is out now, right? I think it's out right now. I think it is I know Ben's gonna be the first one to watch before I was so I love you. I love you. I love you. I love the moment. I love Charlie. I love everything about that whole situation Where are we are we underway? We're we're live baby Big audience Literally literally live or no not literally live metaphorically good. All right. I'm gonna I'm gonna keep Stop screwing up my background and sit in more place I feel like we're on SNL right now and we're like following Ben. This is it does actually. It's a very cool space

6:22Of cool ceiling I'm saying Yeah, we'll sit here in front of the uh, let's see what what collection will we be sitting in front of This is the studio constants a collection. We'll be sitting in front of today And then Ben where okay now we got to know where Ben's in an office space, but Kyle looks like he's I'm in my very cozy. Yeah. Yes So I my job such that it is is consulting and advising brands agency and publishers and so I am at one of my agency partners today. It is in the WSA building Which is the kind of vertical artist village that some Real estate evolution London put together And it's a So this is a this is like a fashion showroom that also does a bunch of agency

7:24consulting for or fashion for where face and fragrance brands Very it's called plus plus. Oh, I love it. Oh, I'm I actually have heard of it but but we have also Definitely have heard of WSA Uh, maybe that would have been my second or third guess of where you're at. So I'm sure Did you have to walk through the The lobby with the gigantic foot or The bed or the bed that looks like yeah, yeah, yeah, the bed that looks like feet. I did oh my god Yeah, the guys who the guys who have put this whole agglomeration together are design fans design of files and so they've collected all of this really amazing Footwear and examples of design from mid-century modern on including a lot of stuff from a kind of

8:25High design 80s and 90s and so there's a bed in the lobby that looks like a pair of feet together Audiences are probably not watching this but they they it so it looks like curled toes Coming up at the foot of the bed and um, it's a it's a showstopper. I've lied in it for sure. Oh wow I have I have not so you've got one of these I have and it's like you're allowed to do that. That is Amazing. It's like a race car bed for adults Yeah, yeah, that's a really good analogy. Yeah, and and and I don't know if you actually are allowed to line it But this is a pretty permissive environment. So, you know, Rashad did Yeah, I did enough. I I merely went down and got a cup of coffee Yeah, it's interesting what if I mean not putting this out there, but if something happens at WSA I feel like that that bed and the first place that would go to would be Laila Gohar I I would think so um, I've been to her house once. I don't know if she sold like loads there

9:31But it she's got like crazy crazy pieces and that would be something that she would have I can only imagine It's funny design is one of those subjects that I Care a lot about without caring a lot about Uh, meaning I really appreciate the the Value of elevated aesthetics and I and I think you know people were pushing line limits of design are Really important to our culture collectively, but I can't quite get my head around Paying the premiums for very high design. I'm just fine with like well fair the middle Most of the time. I I love that you bring that up because I think that it's What's happening kindly kindly right now with it comes to Yeah furniture in general. I mean looking at Kyle's Book shelf right now with all of his lovely books. I'm a scholar. Yeah, I can't which looks really nice

10:34But it's the Billy. Yes, and I think it's really funny that I think that currently in This climate that we're in right now. I think that Like high tastes is like or your taste is like valued as luxury because like absolutely look I have a bunch of USM's and I had them for a long-ass time, right now. They're in every freaking space And now every Person wants a USM hauler. It's like doesn't even matter anymore. I'm getting rid of all my USM's now Well, but I mean it but isn't that the it's sort of interesting USM is the exact as an example in particular, right? Because the the the genius of USM is its total modularity so it like it from the beginning was designed to be Everywhere for everyone You know price point aside that the footbed for instance here at WSA is not for everybody, right? It is that is a Speak for yourself. That's a kind of design fan. That's a design fantasist

11:35type of landscape, but like The the USM and its total modularity is is meant to be Any egalitarian sort of design so it's it's in a surprising in a way that you kind of go Yeah, actually now that it is achieving its state of the result. I don't want it anymore Don't want it anymore. You can have it. You can have it. I mean I will I will take that as a good piece You

12:42Hey, everyone. This is where many hats presented by Dissar and Mat Tsar with your host Rashad Ross Then you can find all our episodes on all platforms and at where many hats dot com Where many hats is made possible by listeners like you. Thank you Kyle Raymond Fitzpatrick and Ben Dietz are the hosts of the podcast hit replacement Kyle Raymond Fitzpatrick writes the trend report newsletter about online offline culture and he is very cute Ben Dietz writes the newsletter, which are I digest sick Our the six newsletter which are I digest a development together. They are very cute. Please welcome Kyle Raymond Fitzpatrick and Ben Dietz to where many hats Thank you for having us. I mean it's flat flattery will get you everywhere Rashad. Thank you And that's how we met um no you I have to I have to clarify that that it is the newsletter is sick because it's come from the Latin

13:42um You know as was written essentially like the the the word sick and so uh It's important people understand that because if they think it's s. I see them They start to try to figure out what the acronym is and then that gets into all kinds of Territories that we don't need to go to oh yeah, because I was gonna call you guys the HIP Replacement Sure That's hilarious black ass short and well I mean and it and of course hip replacement is a literal Is a literal interpretation too because it came from my having both of my hips replaced um Due to some you know Degradation of my the cartilage around my my speaking of the Olympics. Yeah Seriously That backflip you did out there crazy I have never done a backflip I you know I ran into Steve Aoki once At a hotel in San Francisco and he said I just learned to do a backflip

14:42They said I was the fastest guy to ever learn to do a backflip okay And having known Steve for a long time. I very much believe that But it it made me it was a sort of a point in my life where I realized I will probably never do a backflip Well, I'm glad that you have a relationship with Steve and have seen so many cakes in your life being thrown Yeah My my relationship with Steve goes back pre I was gonna say actually it's Yeah, my he Steve and I came out of a similar sort of DIY nightclub DJ era in the very very early arts And so we got to know each other when he and Frankie were doing center space on In LA and actually DJing at the at the rooftop of the standard downtown Anyway, I'm this is I'll go on forever. We're shot at very old. So I have to say I am very familiar because I've party like that Since a teenager. So I've heard all of those words in all these various Spaces countless of times, but I want to know how YouTube met

15:44I mean um The go for it come well I was gonna say like if you like the the long and short of it is like we met in the halls of substock From being like you know mutuals and in the same spaces for years and Then I think you were the for you were definitely with the first one to like quote unquote make a move because you asked me to do Your podcast um Yeah, then that sort of like and that was towards like the beginning of 2024 I think Yes, I wanted to even been 23. Yeah, maybe it was the end of 2023 or beginning 2024 doesn't I something like that But either way then we started like just being in touch and like talking and like randomly like we would just like have a conversation I'd be like hey, what do you think of this and we would talk um and then beginning of last year 2025 You sent Ben sent me a note about like I have an idea for podcasts called hip replacement That's not negotiable. The idea is basically intergenerational conversations I was down the rest of history. However, I actually don't know this in the timeline Ben

16:50Because like this is like the part of the lore is like the the non-negotiable title hip replacement was because he was getting a Sips replaced and thinking about quote unquote losing hipness and needing a sort of line in through multi-generational et cetera, et cetera. I actually don't know when Was a hip replacement when was this sort of convalescing when you were thinking about this was that in 2024 25 Like that wasn't 25 24. I assume right No, no, no, my so I had my first I had my I've had both of my hips totally replaced. I have titanium hips now and um The first one was in May of 2023. Okay and So that was where the idea actually started to germinate and then it took a long time to to mature You know like I tend to get all of these kind of wacky ideas and then they floated on my head for a long time And they eventually come to fruition or disappear but they but so that was that was

17:51When the idea appeared to me or and and then my second hip replacement was in November of 24 and it was in that period of convalescence where I was just like okay I actually really got to do this right um, but yeah, I mean to respond to your question like I be I began this whole journey as a fan of Kyle's I don't know exactly how I found the trend report, but um However, I did I discovered it and was just blown away by it's you know depths and introspection and the We know that Kyle's amazing consistency, which to this day, you know, I find two of all awesome. Whoa Well, maybe, but I'm getting better. I know it's only only to your fault right just for everybody else We get we get to reap the benefits um, but yeah, so we so I just became a fan and I would I would frequently pull items from the trend report into Sick and the news my my little you know podcasts If you want to call it that um is meant to be a conversation with people that I find interesting and I'm pulling

18:52Inspiration from and so yeah, I gave Kyle a shout and he did a couple episodes at the pod and then we did We decided to do hip replacement and here we are have you guys done podcasts or other newsletters before Um, I'm I'm sure you guys have had some crazy pass Sinner space not included I Mean, I I'll just speak for myself for a second um, I Have a period of a bunch of podcasts over the course of time, but but never have never been involved in producing or making one and it was You know, the it was the demo I I'm sorry just as a quick aside. I try to avoid the word Demarcotize because what democratize actually means is that we give everybody a vote not that we make things available to people When people use democratized generally speaking they're talking about trying to make a condition in egalitarian not literally democratizing it anyway, the um So the the audio format though kind of became available to me through clubhouse and that was where I got used to

19:57Talking to people in public and engage and moderating and engaging means kind of remember clubhouse Yeah, oh yeah, I remember we had we had a I had a couple of really good years on That sounds more way in the past than Sinner space honestly I mean it's well funny how that works right like Yeah, I mean that yeah, I mean it's so specific like I remember I think that's sort of why it was like it was so locked into a time Even though the technology wasn't true the same with Sinner space, but like that's like Hearing on which is so interesting and amazing um I have what well go ahead keep going So I was gonna say it was locked it was very much locked into a time because we were locked into our house Well, I think that's sort of what exacerbates it for sure um I Have technically less experience than bed in that like I've I also like I didn't think I even told you this Ben is like I for a long time was just like very no podcasts at all like I truly have like not even listened to

21:04Podcasts at all like before this experience and like I almost did one one time With a friend it didn't end up happening that we were getting very close and like for years I would pitch people like I want to have a podcast called I've never listened to a podcast and people come on the podcast And pitch me a real podcast and uh or they tell me the name of podcasts and I try to like describe What I think it would be and then like we would listen to and be like that's not right like it should do it this way Um, but never happened obviously uh, but Outside of that like it's funny. I'd done radio like I've done a few radio appearances when I was a writer in L.A I like on KCR W and K PCC Shout out public radio in L.A Um big shot. I did some appearances when I was writing about the arts in L.A. for a very long time So I would go in and out of that but I've never Podcasts it was never in my work. Well baby. It's so Kyle you lived in L.A. Ben Did you also live in L.A. too?

22:06No, my my wife lived in L.A. for a year before we got married and I would go out Once a month and spend a week with her. So I spent some time out there and then I traveled here accidentally for business or Hit replacement, but I've would have been a great uh completely different podcast if you both totally were out in L.A. for sure I I love I love L.A. style for sure Animal style Yeah, oh man, it's so funny. It's this is my twice annual straight edge vegan month and I uh drove by a couple of ending outs over the course of this week because I was out there for work and then for a family thing I could not go to ending out and have my Real cheap animal style. It was very disappointing All right, I was like, why not like cheese? Okay, fair fair Neck cheese. Well, and it's going to scare you in it and the buns probably have eggs. Okay I

23:08It's so crazy that like you know I think L.A. is about to have a new another moment of course, you know all that bad PR about L.A. the past like five years and obviously The climate but it's like it's coming back and I think everyone in New York is gonna move back over there again and really but I that's what I think. I mean there's all this propaganda going on, you know I love that I love the for L.A. yeah, but like it's kind of crazy that canyon coffee is like moving in or like up the block from me In Brooklyn, so it's like that is crazy actually that is legitimately crazy courage bagels Where see this this is why we record here per place because I don't know what you guys were talking. Oh, so it's like this You people put me on these are very L.A. things talking to me. I'm like I'm texting my partner right now because like that's like Unreal we used to have I don't drink coffee, but he had for years. I can't in coffee subscription New York is about to be L.A. L.A. is about to be L.A. again

24:13And so it's gonna be great It's interesting, you know, so I was in San Francisco in Monday and Tuesday last week for for this work trip and I am not a San Francisco fan. I'm on record for many years as not being a San Francisco fan and yet San Francisco This trip was very pleasant. It didn't It it seemed to have really turned a corner in terms of a lot of the stuff that makes me crazy about it And the other interesting vector here is that, you know, working with this fashion showroom and agency We talk a lot about L.A. as being a sort of ground zero for global retail trends and movements at the moment So it does stand to reason that that Researchers that you're talking about restaurant is is underway That is very interesting on multi-levels Number one, I I mean, I just spent four weeks in L.A. and like I definitely I always feel that in L.A. and I have like an L.A. lens

25:15Like that was sort of like what raised me culturally um Although I can't quite say that I was feeling that direct energy that you're talking about I love that because I actually felt like you know after not being there for three years going back It sort of and Ben, I told you this is like it sort of it felt a bit like Outside of the culture just sort of like the city itself It just felt a little like like it wasn't taking care of itself. It felt like it was like a friend to it was like When was that time you shower like are you doing okay? It felt like that and like I think that should me Sort of supersedes the culture thing because I think one sets of this political Economic whatever questions are sort of settled and a lot of that is a power vacuum with Hollywood thing One set is sort of settled. It Will be thriving I think but like that needs to be said. That's a big what if And I think it's sort of like stunting even more culture But that's also why like the other point is like I think Ben in a way like that feeling out of its emphasis goes What I had in this last trip to New York

26:16Because I historically have been like a New York hater and this was the first time I was like oh I get it like I'm like I Get it like there was like a triple whammy of like I have enough friends now. I have enough work opportunity and I don't know what third one is but like even with like the bad weather. I had a great time And I was like oh like this like I get it. I can see myself and normally I would Normally, oh, that was the that was a 13 third thing is that like there wasn't as much of the like there's a specific New York energy that tries me up a fucking wall. Is this like very Trump Like machismo New York guy energy It's a very it's a thing like my dad is a similar type. He's very different But it's just like maybe it's a like Boomer queen's thing. I don't know what dungeon you've been hanging out in but uh, I don't It was that New York in the 90s. I don't know. Yeah, I'm not sure that I'm not sure that energy is existing in dungeons Actually, I think that's the where you get with out of you

27:19The that's that's you're talking. Look, I think you know any any place right you need to feel Welcome in order to feel a sense of possibility and and maybe that's what it is right like New York feels Starts to feel welcoming to you because you hit these particular milestones certain amount of friends certain amount of opportunity certain You know and she that I think it was also spending the bulk of the time in Brooklyn, which was a first Usually I'm only in Manhattan quote unquote, so that should think they a lot too Yeah, it's it's injured. That's actually really interesting. I have never lit well It's not true. I've lived in the city for a year in the early off But but for the most part have always lived in Brooklyn originally out of necessity and then soon thereafter out of choice and It is I like I described the people who live in Manhattan all the time. I'm like I go under the river and I exhale and then I find equilibrium and that's been true since I was in my 20s

28:22um And so yeah, I I suspect that does probably have a lot to do is that your experience of it? No, you get more tense when you come to Brooklyn because I live in Brooklyn I love coming back to Brooklyn But I've always wanted to live in Manhattan. I've never lived in Manhattan. It's like I think that hardship as It hasn't sailed just yet, but it's so Wild that like all the places that I wanted to live in Manhattan growing up are like now just not happening because I You know, it's like East Village. It's it's all NYU kids now. It's like totally heck. Yeah Well The the funny thing about raising I've so I have two teenagers that I've lived their entire lives in New York prior to my son having gone up to college and the The thing that's interesting About it is how much of the city they've never seen you know that they've never experienced and we I was reading something I was reading that Sasha Jenkins piece about Timothy Chalamet and New York magazine on the plane last night and he was talking about how Timothy went on

29:29He went on some radio show and was talking about in the Epstein files or something Oh, nothing to do with that. He was um no He went on a radio show and was talking about how he grew up in hell's kitchen Never been to Brownsville and like oh yeah, my kids You know my my my kids have never been to Brownsville my kids have never been to Inwood as far as I know you know my kids have never been to You know Howard Beach So there are all of these places that are in town that They just have never gotten to and would be new worlds if they if they Got out there and experienced something. I think that's there's something really amazing and magical about that Not that any of those places are necessarily great, but Maybe they are. I don't know. No, they're I've checked I've checked out of the spot in Brownsville a long time ago It's just I think me like running up in the suburbs. It just reminds me of the suburbs. That's basically it Um, there's nothing wrong to it. It's just like if if I'm working in Manhattan. It's just too far

30:35That's the case, but um, yeah, that's different worlds for sure That's true. Well, I mean proximity though is a bit of an illusion It's like I've lived in Greenpoint my entire life, which is do or not my entire life my entire New York City life With the exception that year in this in in these village and It is One train stop away from the city and yet When I moved there, it was like the end of the earth because transportation wasn't consistent and You know, it just was not possible to travel there. So I think You know, then when the RBX or whatever that Interborough train the IBX Intertrain in a burrow train thing comes in in a couple of years Maybe suddenly Brownsville to flushing will be the new hot quarter with all the kids with the aircoats who knows But speaking of end of the world, I was thinking of uh Uh going back to what Kyle said about like if you were going to teach podcasts or like have people come Dudes like throw down their podcasts or whatever that was what was happening last week when I went to the lighthouse

31:41I went to the um this it's like a similar WSA Out in Greenpoint and what what the former kicks the former kick star kick squad run quick Kick space things are happening. This is the second time in a week. I've heard about the former kick starter space Pencil factors Are not lost, right? That's right. This the the company Wailer which is an influencer marketing and management company Started this lighthouse happening LA and then they've just opened their most recent one in Greenpoint. Yeah Right on the corner. And so when I went to the opening of that What it was giving it was giving Vice-days and that was like end of the world for me, you know And one bushwick was still bushwick and whimsorg was still whims bearing and It was it was a great crowd But it was like super interesting that like the first floor or when you go in that's what they were doing Kyle They were like I heart radio was there and tiktok was there and they were like doing these things like

32:46Oh, yeah, if you have a podcast idea of pitch it or whatever and we'll see if it's good or not or whatever and it was that was like Interesting because it was like very corporate on the first floor Um, and the food was garbage and but there was free drinks flowing But then when the party was going up the second floor Beach fossils was DJing it was like completely 180 like you would think you'd want to have like a different DJ It was just bringing it back to Fistays I mean Yeah, I don't know there there's this line in um in LCD sounds systems losing my edge, which is the song that literally changed my life um, and You know james is is talking about the the kids who have this nostalgia for the unremembered 80s and That line recurs to me constantly throughout my life because it is a way of placing yourself in historical time that

33:51Um It is really useful. It's really valuable to to know all of the to remember all of the things that you don't know and how much you don't know what you don't know um And so I don't know to me like beach fossils DJing and a thing like that for kids in their 20s who weren't around for the first beach fossils thing is just It's it's it's a time machine And I don't think they're anything wrong with that time machine exactly um, I think if they have nothing but time machine That's a problem, but time machine has one part of their experiences is okay I mean, it's also like an exciting prospect which is true for all of us I think too is that like you can still say Do that thing like beach fossils. I don't I don't think I know who that is technically But like love is not maybe like working the like office job like there's still able to DJ You know what I mean like that is still like A gift to be able to do those things and like a new audience sort of finding which is like it's that sort of thing where like you know

34:53You keep getting older but there's a whole history below you that's also emerging That you don't even know about because it's just not a part of your life anymore And so like that like sort of novelty and we talk about this all the time in the podcast But it's that like that sort of that then is a novelty to some people and it's brand new and like that can be annoying to us You lived it But it also is like there's like a real like pleasure or excitement in that because like that is like Unless there's something wrong with the thing that they like like that is Cool that it can come around. It's it's the same thing when like you know Jessica Lang re-emerged again in like American horror story It's the same sort of like oh wow, we're back and like things never changed, but also like this is also great. You know what I mean I don't know about beach also so so Hey American horror story Only caught up with like one I mean Yeah, I Don't know I guess I'm I'm I want to see beach fossils get

35:55Their day in the sun at a on a large level not just You know the the conscribed you know, right late aughts early early tens level and so I don't mind it I just you know the perfectly imperfect Edition that came out today is with poppy who is the you know sort of fembot right noise maker Like art project artist and Who had a real moment and I don't know what it was at 2016-17 something like that and then sort of banished again Never to be seen until Perfectly imperfect today I like I want pop to be huge so I don't mind poppy having the second chance I would I want poppy to have another bite at the apple. I wouldn't want I wasn't trying to say that beach fossils having a second chance Or anything I was more so saying that like the whoever's curating the event of what's going on at The lighthouse. It's just like all over the place

36:57Yeah, like it's yeah, look I think I think this is one of the things that we try to explore to to Reasonable degrees of success with hip placement is is is that thing That you have to you acknowledge that we have to stay constantly curious and constantly searching and constantly asking questions and then listening to The to the answers because otherwise you do get stuck in your programmatic Gestalt whatever whatever your little moment rush right like my glory days and night clubs were 2004 So does that mean that I want to have cut copy at everything honestly? Yeah, I would love to have a copy and everything Dan is a great dude. He's a great dude But but but that doesn't mean that that he's right or they're you know the band is right for everything So you gotta keep asking like what who is the cut copy of the moment 20 years later? So yeah

37:58Anyway, I we try to interrogate that on the podcast and I think we manage In to a reasonable degree of success. I think we do it successfully for sure So so the next guests would be poppy on hip replays on it I mean or you know the dance maybe it's fuckers because they're the cut copy of 2025 Interesting. I don't even know what poppy does. I just know isn't poppy like AI or something like that and also I mean, it's not it's not actually Like a badness apprehension though. I mean, you could definitely talk to say I totally That's what like the whole originate origin story was like what is this? Because it almost like what's funny because like that was she wasn't conversation with this But it was like at the same time around like little Michaela, which was like oh look at this like that's who I think that's who I yeah That's who I actually mistaken it for a little Michaela which little Michaela. That's right. That's right. That was a whole I mean and not

39:01Well, but but you know in in terms of how all of these things and and this is part of a I think one of the things that we're blessed with certain inspection on is you know Trevor McFedries aka DJ Skitski Who founded Broad which is the company that made a little Michaela got his start DJing with Steve Aoki at CineSpace in the late aughts so and and Trevor's Trevor's a very smart dude and That company is really interesting, but they they also you know, it's just it cuz it sort of illustrates like these creative communities are finite and circular and interrelated to one another and so You know you pull start pulling the threads a little bit and you can begin to see where they all Tonight, I think it's very interesting that we are like able to pinpoint all these low niches down to it's like very very core I want to know you to how tapped are how tapped in are you guys? Um when it comes to Culture and the zeitgeist. I mean then you already mentioned arch nemesis um

40:06Perfectly imperfect. I'm glad that we haven't like I'm just kidding. I'm just playing Nice dudes um, but like how How far you guys deep in the rabbit hole? Especially when you guys are writing the trend reports like or like when you guys want to take a breather, right? Okay, cuz like in this year. I don't want to hear anyone getting bricked up, you know We got to get we got to like If you want to do that do it on your own time. Just don't tell anyone This is the same exact thing is like all right guys. I'm departing from social media. You could just That is like Nosferatu So we know too much about each other. I think that's exactly for sure. Exactly. So let's hear it Bricked up Um, I think like we have to Ben and I I'm not to speak for Ben But like I think that that's definitely part of our job is like our job now as it is that like you know Being plugged into these things in whatever is sort of communities and worlds and interests that we both respectively have

41:08I think for me in a way like it has been harder over the years for no of the reason that I'm not in a specific geographic place where like Those things are emerging as often and as readily And sort of accepted in that way and that sort of has forced a reliance On the internet and social media has a big input which has been successful and I'm very thankful for that But I also am very aware that that's like a false Input in some ways sometimes because and I know I say this a lot people hear me say this a lot So you might be hearing this again someone listening is that like that is only the internet and social media as an input first Having a finger on a pulse is only as Important or relevant as a sort of real life inputs like you really do need to balance the two and I get a lot of that from like traveling Which isn't as good, but like it it does sort of helps you put things into context to think it's important Especially if you're in a place where you don't have an immediate finger on things

42:12Locally in the real work. I think that is arguably more important and where a lot of these digital things and our Conversation with So I think I do a fine job. I could do a better job But that's if I was a different place then what do you think? I mean I would say my entire adult life has been In constant conversation with some sort of zeitgeist ruled by pop culture and then You know reflected through a modern Social political environment, but it goes in in waves in terms of how close to the to the the coalface I am at any given time like when I was When I first came to New York I worked in the music business and I was out at you know Four or five shows a week and I was going to nightclubs and I was DJing and I was doing all that kind of stuff then I Has settled down had kids was out less, but I had the vice office to keep me close And I could sort of see a lot of that stuff reflected then as vice got bigger it

43:17Turned into this thing where there were more people who were There were fewer people as a percentage of the total company who were interested in being right there and reflecting the minutes A minute and so I had to start searching for a little bit more in fact That's where sick came from like I started to publish the newsletter internally for the company Because I was annoyed that I had to explain to 25-year-old kids what was interesting as a 40-year-old dude Right now I don't have that that you know proximity to to all of the young people that that kept me close But I do have my kids at home and their friends who I can ask and I've got Hit the placement and I've got the newsletter community. So it it goes in which I mean I'm I'm I'm Two degrees removed for sure maybe more, but I but but that two degrees feels good to me. Right Well really quickly to that is that like I I think this is sort of lost on culture in some ways now

44:17Ish I think we're about to turn a corner. Thank God. I think But like I think there has been such a preoccupation probably in the last 20 to 30 years or just sort of like youth culture and I think that's fine Let's all there always will be a youth culture thing, but I do think you're sort of missing You know the early 2020s everything being for Gen Z thing I think it's sort of aged in a way where people are just like well Well, what about Gen X? What about boomers? What about millennials like they're just as valuable of inputs and communities And I do think and hope that like that will sort of like Set a new pace But like to that point Ben like do you do quote-unquote being two steps removed from like the main sort of like cultural Nuculus like short fair, but like do you not feel like you are quote-unquote up on the things that are happening and trending and of interest in the Gen X world Let's say let's call it you know what I mean Because that's just that you know Well, no, I I do but I guess you know like I'm I'm of a of a an age and a vintage where

45:23I lived through a period where you could know Almost everything quote-unquote right right and now now that is just totally impossible and so it Feels like I'm missing something even if I'm maybe not really which is maybe a different thing altogether for sure Yeah Ben do you are your kids part of like iPad generation are they Glue to their do they have like phones and whatnot. I don't have kids. Oh, yeah Yeah, no, I mean my my son is my son is 19 and in college and you know basically Living as a as an adult quote-unquote my daughter is a junior in high school and um You know has a very active social life and a very She has a you know a serious boyfriend and she's a play on the club volleyball team And so is is just out in the world a lot, but but both of them have Relationships with their screens that are um deep and meaningful to them and also a little hard for me to parse like my my daughter

46:28And we we talked about this a little bit the live recording my daughter Spends a lot of her time playing roblox Which as a 16-year-old you would think is Weird except that that's where she talks to her friends like that's her version of a party line Like what the games that she's playing are incidental to the conversations that she's having on roblox Roblox is her version of clubhouse or a social platform or whatever whereas um you know For me roblox would have been sitting on a gameboy in my darkened bedroom trying for 10 to my parents that I was asleep, right? And so it's it It just it changes I feel like we're also like entering a space and time which I think is a good thing Where there is that sort of understanding of Game space. It's not just robots. It's like the gaming experience as like a town hall and or just like a You know, it's entertainment in real time, but also life as well

47:29And I think that that is like such an underutilized and under understood Uh domain because like I there was like conversation. I had with somebody in New York where it was just like you know what is Arguably there has not been a defining 21st century like media experience and like what will that be? What could that be and I think it's definitely going to be in the gaming space It's going to be something that will happen that is like you know The the you know dorthy wakes up and it's all in color experience that you have that's the whole group But it's going to happen through a game and through like a sort of like jackpot story driven game And like what is interesting to think that's what I think you're you know the ready the ready player Oneification of the world which would be Which obviously I agree expression of that, but there is something to it of like you know the internet slash Gaming like you know, it's it's to me. I think if it more as like like a sort of like Sleep no more experience, but through a video game. It's played collectively with your family in the room

48:29But also with your family across the world too like that will be a sort of that hasn't happened yet It's going to happen very soon. I think it's gonna happen very soon only because All right, I work in advertising and At first I thought it would be a little bit of regulation going on But now I think because the internet it's like all going out like really full force I've been noticing this Insanely with gambling ads. I back then it was like very very Okay, minimal right here and there, but now it's just like all in your face and I've been wondering Why ask Ben about his kids and like Being on screens and whatnot. I just like I was never the type of person to be like who would want to bring a kid into this world right now But now it's like kind of wild because like there's just gambling ads. It's just like our glued on the screens Like ready player one type style and you're like got trying to move it over and whatnot And so I think it's crazy

49:31That I mean, it's also kind of interesting that like we're going in this like gaming Well because They're related they're related definitely related And people are gonna definitely be putting their money where their mouth is for sure literally literally I was swearing off gaming for quite some time. I used to be a huge gamer growing up, but now I don't know I might have to embrace it and see back in and I say embrace it as long as you have like a healthy balance Well, that's the thing right now I have a healthy balance, but I'm not isolating but like if it's not if you don't Put parameters on it it can read and if it's not done in a social thing And if it is a social thing you're living with other people have a family You have a partner you have a whatever like it can really be something that's just like you know You are in your own world. It's like it's really important to have this sort of like checks and balances Otherwise like you are just like you know you on planet you which is not bad, but also like okay

50:38You need to have a life too. Yeah, I gotta I gotta say it's one of the things that I like about the the social gaming aspects That my kids participate in is that even though they At times get sucked into That world and and are wholly focused on it the people on the other end of the the chat line Our subject to the their own individual pressure So there is always somebody who's disappearing from the game because they got to go set the table For dinner or they got to go to class or they got to go to work or they got it You know or they're just you know pissed off and they rage quit or whatever And and so there is this constant reminder of the fact that like this is not right All-encompassing world. This is a vector. This is your aim. You're participating in whereas whereas I whereas I think I mean they you know There is a there's a universe is this is one of the problems that we see with like you know the alleged subculture and I say let I shouldn't say a legend

51:40I'm sure it exists but like the whole goon goon and goon cave thing is like you're I mean, I guess there's a community around that but for the most part you're in it Yourself and yeah, it seems like a vortex that you can get lost in the certain things that you don't know that you're doing You're probably doing like you're gooning right now. We're all gooning right now on the pod We I just for the listers edification none of us are gooning at the moment I we know I have no idea no we're no we're we're on vet you can't see this listers, but we are nobody's doing it sure I remember going into the new year where people were saying that like oh okay so Media companies are having a a thing right now independent there's going to be a lot of people starting their own independent media companies

52:40Big corporate companies having these platforms accept stack and like having a podcast underneath it with you guys And especially you know Is this trending still is this uh are we gonna see more of this coming and then where when are we gonna top And be like okay, this is peak media Are recrashing Too many people writing like lots of stuff out there who can we trust misinformation The bad bunny thing last like who was the kid that they gave the huge thing and you know, it's not the kid that got You know right and so I'm just like wait what Like what who are we gonna listen to are we gonna listen to the Ben and Kyle are we gonna listen to Rashad like what's up? I think you know the way to think of it more so is in terms of the large the macro economic cycles

53:42Right like we're going through a disruption at the moment the the Washington Post-Layoffs last week Emblematic of this world media is being disintermediated We're the people that contributed to that are gonna have to find a new place in the world Or they're gonna have to find a new place in some other world and so the the trend of Independent creators and independent media brands Growing is gonna continue for at least the rest of 2026 what will happen in in Towards the end of this year into 2027. It's it'll start to seek consolidation like articles like the one about max from brigade in New York Magazine last week are are the harbingers of look of a rebondling and recontalination Where somebody smart will come together and they will cherry pick from Interest verticals that matter to an audience the the most salient voices right so they go all right. I'm gonna get um You know somebody from the news side. I'm gonna get somebody from the culture side I'm gonna get somebody from the sports side. I'm gonna get somebody from the entertainment side I'm gonna get somebody from the fashion side. I'm gonna get somebody from the technology side

54:46I'm gonna put them all together and they're we're gonna have our own version of like cool guy Northern Brooklyn puck Or alternately, you know Greater Mumbai area Helgate or whatever it is and and those little aggregations will start will be the thing that become the genesis of the next Generation so yeah, I would say where we are the way it is is rising and beginning to crest But the cresting hasn't happened yet and when it starts to drop in and then we'll start to see what they're with the real future of this I would agree. I feel like definitely. I think maybe where like the cresting is probably more around the like sub-site thing And maybe around that sort of larger like you know, and even start like the Aaron Parnises and the Dave Jorgensen's on tech talk Like people like that like this sort of like one individual And or the social media platform like that thing. I think is is reaching that point and two exactly

55:46Ben said is like you know the next stage of that is then the rise of This sort of like new local newsroom be it, you know If it's truly local or not, it's not the point It's more like the the indie newsroom where it is just like, you know Five people bundling together independent of a sub-stack and or sub-stack probably this year It will definitely happen is dropping a feature where you can bundle together with five of your friends like that is like We are a breath away from that and like I would it would not be surprised that drops within Before summer or something definitely this year, but like that is sort of where it's going like that's in response to You know, we can we have to build these things ourselves You're seeing that already with like for years this whole to the point of puck to the point of semifore to the point of 404 to all these things Or some merging there will be too much but that also is going to me and you will have your own small community of like Well, I support xyz journalist writer creator type which is a good it's a good thing But also like okay, sure like the fact checking whatever whatever to hold the thing

56:49Yeah, it's a reinvention of the local media ecosystem except it's done on a on a like a psychographic and audience basis affinity basis And Yeah, I mean like I think ultimately it's gonna be it will prove to be healthy, but it's gonna require going through a period of you know Trauma and upset look that is come from legacy systems for for a while Unfortunately, that is like the larger macro trend of like what's happening almost across every interest every industry like it's like that is like Be it Hollywood be it fashion be it media like these are obviously creative ones even tech like it's happening everywhere So it's like politics like it is we're reaching that moment whether we needed to have that or not is aside the point. It is just what's happening Well hats off to you and everything that you do You For someone with a van guard. Yeah, it's for some just our way. I mean had solutions What are

57:50Like just looking at your book collection Kyle You to drop a book that you that resonates with you guys It could be in this moment or throughout life that You would like to share with their listeners go first then I'll I'll start and I'll start by having this is an incomplete recommendation So I just read the new George Saunders book um visual over the weekend Um, which is Uh a fun quick well fun is maybe not exactly the right word, but it's it's a it's a it's a quick read Um at that paint a dystopian picture in Saunders style And I was inspired because of it to pick up his book um Uh a swim in the rain a swim in the lake in the rain, I think Um, which is the the one that came before vigil and is a a teaching of Russian short stories the way that he teaches in a literature class in Syracuse

58:50So the idea is he gives you the name of the story by checkoff for instance You read it and then he goes for 50 pages teaching that story in the way that he teaches it to literature grad students at Syracuse um I have read only the the preamble Saunders preamble to the book And I've got to now go locate this this checkoff story so that I can then read the first chapter But the the the the meta narrative involved there. I think is very indicative to the way that we all Are experiencing and can can benefit from everybody else's experience of the world, right? It's like somebody gives you a source material You consume it Create your reflections upon it and then listen to somebody else's reflections sincerely That's a way to get smarter richer in a non-monetary sense and just generally like to become more interesting And so I like that book as an avatar for the for the feeling. I love that. I like that

59:52Yeah, I need to read that one too Um I pull some visual aids which people will not be able to see Or maybe they will. I don't know, but like I'm gonna do a hopefully lightning round First a small boat by Vincent Delacua, which came out last year. It's translation from French to English Um, I think this is a very good book on modern politics basically. It's like a like in any Adam style drama about a French like Navy person who's kind of responsible for the Drowning of like 30 immigrants between in the English channel who are going from the top of France to the UK So it's very much like Talk about like it's basically being the mind of an ice agent and like I think this book is gonna have it even bigger moment this year Um Two books about the internet, which I think are the best books about the internet Obviously rejection by Tony atulamute, which came out two years ago, I think 24 Banger freaky fun

1:00:53No one is talking about this by Patricia Lockwood, which is the best book in the internet or about the internet And like of the internet it will make you cry. It'll make it's a you'll laugh. You'll cry. You'll laugh. You'll cry And then any bakers Circle Mayor transformation, which I think I read this last year and it's from like 2009, I think Um, but it no, no, no 2013. I don't know. It's from definitely older than a decade and like I thought that that book just I mean, it's a play, but it like sort of like reinvigorated a lot of like create creative stuff It's a good like Midlife and or early life and or late in life Play to sort of like be like, what am I doing? It's amazing granted. I also wasn't actor in other life and it's about acting So works like that have been speaking to me recently for whatever reason and so Hi, I knew you were giving actor vibes I don't know that's a good or bad thing Well, he's no, it's a it's a good it's he's a good actor because he didn't reveal it until the last

1:01:57The final the dying breaths of the of the conversation. Oh my god. Yeah, you know, I don't like to you know Judge that's a lie, but like I I just knew There was that's why you like being an actor like being a comedian like being any sort of performer is And neatly embarrassing so that's also why maybe I don't do it anymore. No, no in the same life in the different lines You could have been in omari for sure absolutely Of course Another one Where is a place you two like to go to hang your hat Where you guys like to go for inspiration or like when you accomplish an episode or Whatever you've done that day or something that Just makes you happy you like to go out to a place I really hate when people respond to a question with good question

1:02:57It makes me absolutely insane. It's like just answer the fucking question. I'm gonna take that as a good question But thank you. No, no, well, that's what I mean. I was about to say good questions Then I was like and I hate I really hate when people do that. Uh, I so the the corner of Greenpoint and Franklin avenues in Greenpoint, Brooklyn There's a there are a couple of different places where you can sit outside and have a drink and in the spring time Or in the fall and nice weather. I love to go there and just watch the crowds go by. That's nice Good people watching um This is a very tough question I was trying to think of like what is like the digital version for me is very dumb and simple as tick-tock Um, but no one has ever said that that's So interesting really tick-tock is not a place. Yeah, that's not a place. That's a great answer though And yet and yet yeah, it's a state. It's a whatever. It's a whole bunch of things Tick-tock is where I usually go, but like if I had a

1:04:00If I was in a place where I could get the things that you're talking about Ben more Substantial like I probably would have a physical place. I do go to a restaurant here called Mog which is like one of Three or four like good Interesting restaurants that also have like good natural wine Um, which is more for the community than like being able to like see interesting people And like that is a very like I will go there on the weekend. My partner Robin. I will go there. It's a good like unplug be real. It's great These are great ones, but I like that one IRL obviously of course, but no one has ever said tick-tock, which is like I'm shocked by that actually because that's it's I mean this makes sense for this episode for sure because What like people now need to define what does chronically online mean and also like what does affordable mean and like it's just All of these different things we're redefining All of these new words and

1:05:01A place if that's like a place you like to like decompress Well, so be it, but also down that brain is fried Thank you Thank you If you guys were to get a chest tattoo quote, what would it be? I mean, I I'd be my kids names or it would be BMCH which is My myself my wife my kids that is very sweet I will say the same thing, but for me, which is not what I was going to say initially, but now I feel like an ass But I would say the same thing would be like the B.O.S Bobby Oliver Scooter Oliver and Scooter the dogs But the thing that I would also say is like you know, I share this meme a lot when I pull readers is like There's this great like death metal meme where it's like this like fucking like Devil skeleton playing the guitar and it's like

1:06:02Be nice to me. I cry easily. So like I probably would have something just like you know like be nice I will cry like I feel like that's a good like Pieces I'm gonna operate Be nice to Ben and Kyle when you see them please Exactly Thank you so much Ben and Kyle for coming over where many hats. It was so great to have you. Is there anything you guys wanted to plug? Hyperplacement is our podcast comes out every Tuesday on all of your favorite pod and streaming platforms and My newsletter is sick, which is just sic.substack.com And mine is the trend report, which is Actually, it is the trend.report, which I always forget that I have or 12345678.substack.com if you really want to go long And that's my handle and everything

1:07:04Amazing amazing Till next time. This is where many hats presented by Desire and I'm Rashad peace Where is Will many