3234: Wrestling and Writing

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2:05I listen to the Black Guy who tips podcast because Rob and Karen are hot. Hey, welcome to another episode of the Black Outers podcast. I'm your host, Rob. Join us always on my co-hosts and we are live on a Monday, rush hour Monday. You guys are probably on your way home watching us on crowdcasts on your phone. You're supposed to be having your hands on 10 to 2. Looking straight towards the road. Pay attention. I saw Rick today. It was crazy. I'll get to that in a second, but we're not alone. We have a guest, guys, first time guest on our podcast, although I have hung out with this gentleman on the MC University podcast, Marvel Cinematic University for those that don't know. Today's guest writes about pro wrestling, Blade 2, and obscure 96 con for Yahoo Sports. He writes an uncrowned and complex. He's host as a South Congress podcast. It's Cam Hawkins. What's going on, Cam?

3:05Hey, man. Doing all right. I'm happy to be on with you all. I'm a big fan of what you do and what you guys are about, so this is really cool. Oh, man. Thank you, baby. It's cool to us too, bro. I'm not even going to lie. I have so many questions about wrestling because that's a cultural blind spot for me. I don't really follow wrestling like that. And for me, I'm the opposite. I followed it when I was younger, and then I just got to a certain point why I just stopped. So if you get into like the 80s and 90s, I'm very familiar with, like, Andre, the giant. Like, I can go way, way back with like some of those. But once you get to a certain realm, I'm not as familiar. But I want to start by asking you this, man. Are you from San Antonio? Are you born and raised there because I saw that was, I saw San Antonio's reference in the bio. I was like, is he just a spurs fan or like this, you, that you claim them, folks? Yeah. So I'm originally from Southern Maryland, this matter of fact, my whole family is from like the upper Marvel area on my, my mother, my stepfather, military, so we moved around a

4:08lot, moved to, like I moved to Wyoming when I was eight, and then moved to San Antonio when I was 11. And so my mother still lives in San Antonio, you know, my friends are there, my girl is there. But yeah, when I, when I graduate, I ended up coming to a university in Texas. I just stayed in Austin, you know, just kind of never left. So San Antonio is technically, you know, home, but I've lived in Austin. Gosh, it'll be about 25 years in June. So I've been here all the time. But yeah, but San Antonio would also know that I want to have a part. So I'm always home, seeing family and friends. So did you, so you, you've been there for the blow up of Austin too, right? Cause like Austin, in my, in our lifetime went from just like, you know, a place in Texas to like the home of South by, and now it's becoming like, yeah, not even hippie at this point. It's like the Joe, whatever the Joe wrote, libertarian, like the libertarian bastions,

5:09thought it moving there. Whenever California. Yeah, whenever somebody don't like something in a blue state, they be like, I'm moving to Austin. Like, what is that? What's that influx been like for you? Well, listen, man, it is, we went to, we had a watch party for this last weekend's WWE paper view. We had it at the Victory Grill, which is like a historical monument in East Austin. And on the same block bears, there's the Victory Grill. There is like an African American performing arts center, there's a church and Franklin's barbecue, world famous barbecue. Those are all historical landmarks, because everything else around it is gentrification. It is yoga studios, it is fusions, you know, man, yogurt shops and, you know, I've watched the city, you know, in the last 10 years, really, but since I've been there, really change, you know, most of the black and brown people who were in East Austin got bought up and, you know, they were selling those family houses for, they were selling a lot for 500, 600,

6:14thousand. They cashed out, but, you know, a lot of that culture is gone, and you know, we'll talk about Joe Rogan in them, listen, man, that is a side of the time, that side moving to the city and changing up a whole lot, like their comedy mothership is in, was the old Ritz Theater, where you go to watch the, the artsy movies right in the middle of downtown. So it's changed a lot, man, it is, it is not the city I knew, there's still, you know, really cool spots and really cool people, but it is a different world for sure. How, like, how do you adjust to that change in, like, scene, is it, like, black, it's like black Austin was there one day, and in the next day, it was like, amen, we, we're doing an opposite of Cardin for vaccine. We want y'all to, like, come here, coughing, like, I mean, yeah, a big part of it. I mean, I, I actually live in a suburb just north of Austin called Round Rock, right before that, it was Flugerville, and Flugerville was like big, black suburb, so a lot of, like,

7:15I guess, black flight moved to Flugerville. And so, you know, if you, if you look at the right places, you can still find your people, you can still find your events, you gotta look, you gotta look, but it's still ways to find that culture for sure. Okay. How, how was it adapting doing COVID, because, you know, I'm in North Carolina, and, you know, we kind of, we kind of mixed, but Texas was like, we don't give a fuck. So, I mean, how, how was that like when you, when you walking around, and you're like, Hey, so we not going, we just all into the face is like, what is this? It was, listen, man, we, uh, me and my buddy, uh, God rest a soul, we were rent a house. And so, listen, if it wasn't to, you know, go to the grocery store, we was at the house, you know, he, um, I work in education, he's a teacher. And so a lot of what we were doing with virtual, so he'd be in his room, I'd be in my room, we'd be working, you know, um, which is to say, we, we could have been better citizens, because even though we didn't go to the party, the party, by the came to us, days, but

8:19you know, um, you know, we, we tried to keep it as safe as we could. But yeah, it was, um, people were running around, they were going to, you know, bars or restaurants or finding ways. And it was just like, guys, like, we don't got to do all that. Right. We can't, we don't want to tell you what you can, it can't do, but like he said in Texas, it is, it is. It was just a while. We're still. Yeah, it's, it's like different. It was like, no rules. I was like, oh, so we're not telling the citizens to pay attention at all. I saw on Twitter, somebody was like, what, what did y'all call this game when you were a kid, the game where you go to somebody's door, knock on it or ring the doorbell and then run away. And I was thinking, I was like, I mean, the name of the game was ding dong ditch, but I'd be damned if I ever seen nobody play that in my neighborhood because people got guns now here. You know, like you just grew up in a different place where you could approach a stranger, even a neighbor to be honest, like, I'm not sure a neighbor would not shoot me under the right circumstances if I was just fucking with a door when you, when you live in a place like

9:19that, and particularly Texas has like lucid laws that we do in North Carolina. And when you hear people, you're like, oh, you're not from here, that's my blow your brains out. What is you doing? So I got a fun COVID story. We were, you know, everybody kind of lived on social media during COVID, right? I get a DM from this girl and she was like, hey, I'm trying to come over and watch some NBA ball, but that's okay, cool. It wasn't until she's on the way. I realized I do not know this girl. Oh, no idea who she is, right? Oh, no. She came over. She kicked. It was a great time. I told the story on Twitter and people were like, yo, like, you weren't nervous, like, she could have set you up. She could have robbed you. Boy, I showed them the pitch, all the guns we got. Well, we're not going to do it this. She was safe. I was safe. Everybody was. Right. If anybody showed you, they would have something with you.

10:20So different culture. Yeah. I saw. I forget what basketball player was, but it was some dude and it was in LA where like, uh, he had got word that his body, baby, mom was trying to put some, some people on him. And uh, he went, got him, uh, like a 3D printed gun and they tried to run up on him. He was waiting at the dump. I said, yeah, bro, it's different. Like it's no guarantee of your safety. Um, speaking, like, you got into writing and wrestling, which feels like a oxymoron. Right. But I don't think, I don't think it has to be. Um, what did you get into first, the right, no, the wrestling was at the same time. Oh, man, it was the rest of the, I was a little man, my, uh, you know, my dad was into it. My grandfather was into it. Um, when my, my parents got divorced when I was like three and my mom was still an airman in the air force. She had no money, right? So she got a job at the old Capitol Center, the USA arena in DC.

11:22She was an usher. So whenever she couldn't find a babysitter, she would just take me with her and I just be in the stands for whatever. So it could be a capitalist game, it could be a bullet's game. Um, I got to see, you know, Ninja Turtles live, like all that kind of stuff. Right. You got it all. Man, we was doing it. So one time, um, she took me to a WWF house show. It was, uh, it was Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan and the cage and it was just, we, we were there, like, that was it, you know, like we were, we were, we were all from running. But you know, every, every Saturday night, uh, before the braves came on, these, so WCW Saturday night, um, I used to watch that with my dad. Um, but yeah, it was, and it was interesting, like, you know, being from, I get, you guys have a Carolina Maryland in too far apart. It was never treated like a fake thing, even though we knew it was fake. Right. They would talk to me about it like it was sport. Yes. And you see, you know, you see this match, see that match, how it's such, such doing. So yeah, we always just kind of treated like that. You know, the wrestling, like ever since I was a little kid and of course, you know, I

12:24grew up, um, you know, I'm in middle school elementary school, like when the Monday night wars are jumping off. So it's wrong one channel, nature on the other. I'm going back and forth in the basement, like, yeah, yeah. So it was always that, um, flip side, the writing, uh, you know, that was my degrees in English. Right. So it was always, you know, something I was into, um, you know, I was a big comic book kid, big sci-fi kid. So, um, you know, I was always like hearing these great, creative stories, um, you know, how they're presenting heroes and villains and personalities. So, uh, yeah, when I went to college, um, I was doing, uh, I started off doing my calm and journalism. Still took some of those classes, but I started to lean more into like the English, the creative writing. Um, so then, you know, when I graduated, um, you know, I got, I didn't, I didn't want to teach. I was, I was dating a teacher. And then, you know, I was like, oh, we can't both do that. Yeah. You can't both be, bro. Oh, it's something I got. I mean, we can't both come home stressed every day.

13:28That's what it was. Okay. So I was, um, you know, I was working, I was working at a school, but I was working in like financial aid at a school, um, but I had, uh, I started to find a restaurant website. Like when they were showing, like, well, they would share like the results and all that kind of stuff. Um, so what ultimately happened, um, I was doing my own blog, South Congress blog, writing about stuff every once in a while, we talked about a restaurant, uh, found this one site called Pro Wrestling Torch and, um, they were doing like wrestling journalism. They were writing long form newsletters and doing interviews and opinion pieces. Um, and so I started, like, listening to their shows, I ended up getting on to one of their, uh, podcasts and then I was like, Hey, I can write too. Um, and so I would do stuff every now and again. And then again, I brought up the pandemic, the pandemic changed so much, man. Yeah. Um, it, um, everybody's on Twitter, everybody's, you know, putting their thoughts out and

14:30the right person saw it. If you look behind me, there is a frame white woman on my wall. I will explain that. Oh, whatever. As brothers have, everybody got a frame white mom back. Well, I don't know what she is. Back there somewhere, she's back there. You got to have one. Come with the house. Discover a spectacular island destination with crystal blue seas, endless sunshine and the cool Bahamian breeze. Baham are located in Nassau Bahamas, offers your choice of three luxury hotels, the richly refined rosewood, the playfully hip SLS, and a stylishly modern grand high it with over 45 restaurants, bars and lounges. Bahamara serves up delicious dining from world renowned chefs, like Daniel Barude and Marcus Ann Wilson, nightlife venues like the new John Batista Jazz Club, and the Caribbean's most luxurious casino. At Bahamara, you'll find every pleasure under the sun and one of the kind experiences for the entire family, like Bahamay, our 15-acre lush tropical water park.

15:33Distracted wildlife experiences, including our daily flamingo parade, world-class golf, tennis, spa, and so much more. Visit bahamara.com today and discover a vacation destination where memories are made for a lifetime. Bahamara. Life. Spectacular Sometimes all we want is more of the same, like another round of golf, played from a channel with 24-7 coverage. Another look at the garden, and the deer as they pick their way through it. After Taco Tuesday, followed by a whatever is in the fridge Wednesday, and to get more of the same, all we need is a little help. With adaptable care plans from qualified compassionate caregivers matched to your family's needs, homestead can help you and your passions stay home, no matter what's on your horizon. Visit homestead online for a better what's next. Your vehicle doesn't just get you from here to there. It's a bridge to the people and places that matter most. That's how you show up for your family, your community, and everyone else that depends on you.

16:34That's why, for 125 years, Firestone has been building tires with one thing in mind, to deliver products that are as reliable as you are. Firestone, always dependable, since 1900. Wasn't that delicious? So good. Your bill, ladies? I got it. No, I got it. Seriously, I insist. I insist. I insist at first. I don't be silly. You don't be silly. You don't be silly. People with the Wells Fargo Active Cash Credit Card prefer to pay because they earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases. Okay. Rock paper scissors for it. Rock paper scissors. Shoot! No! The Wells Fargo Active Cash Credit Card. Visit WellsFargo.com slash Active Cash, Terms Apply. What happened was, uh, uh, this magazine I used to read called Pro Wrestling Illustrator. I used to sit there in a grocery store and read it because my mom wouldn't buy it. The guy who edited that magazine was like, yo, I'd love for you to write a thing for us.

17:34Um, and he had the interview. Don't let him just buy me. Um, and my mom actually framed me as my first magazine piece. But, um, I got, uh, in fact, a magazine opportunity, then I got an opportunity for a website. Um, it was, I'll call fan-sided and fan-sided does, you know, all of the sports, but they also do wrestling. And then, um, I got invited right when the world opened up. Um, my man, my man, Chris from New York invited me to be on a panel at Comic Con. It was called The Beauty of Blackness and Wrestling. And it was some friends of mine, um, who I knew some people I didn't know. I might end up sitting next to my man, Kaz, Kaz from The Ring or Kaz from. Now from the Hot 97 Morning Show, because of course, it was everything, right? Right. And so, you know, we, we had kind of known each other. We talked a little bit. I met his buddy, uh, Sparks, the next day at a show in Jersey. A couple months later, I get a call from Sparks. Hey, Cam, were you planning to come to WrestleMania and Dallas? I was like, I wasn't.

18:34What was up? He's like, yo, I love you to come up here. We can hang out a little bit. I said, cool. I show up. And he buys me lunch. And I was like, why are you buying me lunch? It was cool. He said, yo, actually some help with the show. So, Kaz and Sparks host, while they made it. You know, while they're rappers, a huge wrestling fan. So, every year before WrestleMania, he has a big party. Um, where all the wrestlers come and, you know, his music friends come and they do a big thing. So, I was helping out with that. I kid you not. I'm like setting up chairs at something backstage. Uh, the guy that's with Kaz looks at me. He's like, yo, do I know who you are? I was like, no, I don't think so. I'm just keep doing what I'm doing. A couple more minutes past. And he's like, you're Seahawk. I was like, yeah, he was like, I love your Twitter. I was like, oh, snap. So, it turns out that's David Shoemaker from the ringer. Okay, as his podcast partner. Wow. And so, a couple of months later, my man, Cal from Black Rasslin, um, he's a senior editor at the ringer.

19:35He called and he was like, yo, I don't know what your situation is at PW Torch. But, you know, if, um, you know, if you're open to it, we love for you to come right wrestling for us at the ringer. And yeah. Wow. That is so happened. So, yeah. That's cool. I always say, man, it's so interesting, especially with social media, like, um, people make content and a lot of times you try to, you know, they give you all the advice, make content for the most people possible and, you know, whatever takes, you know. Um, but really, man, a lot of shit just moved because one person seen, like just one person with pool was like, hey, that dude, hey, he's all right. Like, and that's how you can get your shot, which is such an interesting thing. Um, when you first started, you talked about, you know, it wasn't about your both being broke as teachers, but the one, but if y'all both was teachers, y'all be broke. That adds to the stress. I was just responsible now, man. Yeah. Yeah. It takes a while to get to the principal money, though. They don't, yeah. But I just, in several more degrees. Yeah. You right, though. Y'all would have both been stressed and the money adds to the stress.

20:37It's not, it's not. Number one of cause of divorce is financial. Uh, shit. So, um, dude, you try to, like, getting the interview wrestlers. And I've always been interested in this, uh, from afar, because, you know, let me, uh, talk about our, uh, uh, me and Karen talk about our bringing with wrestling real quick. Um, for me, I never got into wrestling that much when I was a kid, because I truly was like, I, you guys think this is a sport. It's not a sport. And that, and it just turned into that debate over and over. And then I ended up picking a side, you know, because I was, I was like, when my cousin and them and my brother, they own the wrestling is real side. And as a person that to this day might be a little too rigid. And like, what we gonna do is keep it facts. I was, I was like, this, these, this is a, uh, a play. And they're like, no, it's real to me, damn it. And so I think I ended up on the wrong side because it, like, and also like, at that time, I associated it more with like,

21:38this is what the jocks and the bullies like as opposed to like my transformers and GI Joe's, which are also teaching me violence and killing people. But I was like, this is what the nerds like. Oh, you know what I'm saying? And so I think I didn't realize as I got older and nerd, the, the, the definition of a change because nerd needs to be like social outcast. And now it can be like expert. Like someone that's really an enthusiast, whatever. So wrestling became like, it not only was it already for nerds back then kind of, but it really became pop culture nerd. Like, you can be a wrestling nerd and not, they don't mean you not cool. Right. It doesn't mean you like believe these, that these dudes are really like, uh, doing it. Like the, the athleticism of slamming someone off of a ladder. It's still real. There's no way to fake that part of it. So like I had that realization so late and I never really got to have fun with wrestling until I went to college and I had a roommate Shawn.

22:39He loved wrestling. And this nigga loved wrestling. Like I had no idea, like wrestling was out of my purview. You know, I wasn't watching it on TV every Monday night, raw, whatever. This motherfucker would go to bow jangles. He would order him a big ass, like big, the big, we're in college. He'd order him like a 50 piece buffalo wing. That's a lot of money for a college kid for him. Understand? Not for us. He was very scared for him. And he would sit down. We had two TVs. My, I would be on my sacred dreamcast. He would throw the wrestling on. And I saw him gaming, but when I on the TV, and that just happened to be when I was in college, the rise of the rock. And that, so for that, I was like, this isn't the fuck what it is. Cause this is actually kind of lit. Like why you just didn't say you was watching this? I thought it was just, you know, white dudes and they draws, you know,

23:39in pageantry and shit. But it actually turned out to be really fun. But after me and him weren't roommates anymore, I kind of went back to just like, always cool, but I'm so far behind. I'm so out of the loop. Whenever you talk to a wrestling person, they, like, they don't, I don't even know that they know they do it. I'm sure I do it with sports. But when you talk to them and you be like, oh, this was cool. They'd be like, oh, but it's not like 87 back when Randy met with, with, with my chill man, Randy Savage took on. Yeah. I'm like, bro, I'm so out of my debt. I don't remember. I don't have that memory the way you do. So now you just explaining shit the rest of the time. It's not going to be the same for you. So that was my relationship with wrestling. How about yours, Karen? It's not good. Go ahead, babe. I'm sorry. No, I want you to go. I'm not scared. It was, yeah. Okay. But for me, it started when I was younger. We had cable. So I used to watch a lot of it by myself because I was only child. And so when my cousin, my recent come over, we would sit down and we watch it.

24:39And we were actually, you know, wrestled. Like, you know, like, go away with a bit of the kids. You know, men kind of remember what you saw on TV. Yeah. I never got into wrestling as a kid, but like play wrestling. Because I didn't watch this shit. But all my friends did like play wrestling. Right. And they be doing shit. And I'll be ready to fight. Like, hey, man, get your hands off me. I'm like, who play like this? What's wrong with you? Let my neck go, bro. But like, what's happening? So that's what we used to do when we were smaller. So I grew up in the era of, like I said, Rick Flair, and Andre the Giant. So, you know, a lot of like them, 1980s era. And then I kind of don't know what happened. I just got to, hey, don't want to say why I grew out of it. I just didn't watch it as much. Like, my attention just kind of went to other places. And similar to Rodrip, when the rock came back, I was like, ooh, who is this fine man in these drills with this face? Like, sir. And so I felt like for me, that's what really bought me back.

25:40And he was funny. Yes, he was hilarious. Like, he had actual, like, charisma. He had godly, he had godly comedic timing at that point. Like, it wasn't just a laughing at him thing. Like, a lot of wrestlers is almost like, y'all about to be laughing at me because, like, I'm silly. Like, oh, look, I got a kimono or whatever. This motherfucker used to be roasting people. I still remember, because like I said, Sean, Sean would buy the VHS tape of the rock. And like, we just watched the highlights. And that was one, and that's really what sold me was the highlights. But that was one where he was like, he was fighting the dude. He hit him with the bell from the fucking ring. And it went off like, ding. And he was like, bells will be ringing. Yeah. Bells will be ringing. I was like, hey. Turn it up. And for me, I used to love. And he was like, can you smell what the rock is cooking? And like, I will rend me to say that phrase to today.

26:40Like, I just love that fucking phrase. It doesn't matter. He would cut off people when they was asking him questions. They're a journalist. They just dare to ask you a question. So, like, what do you think about this? What's your name? It doesn't matter. Like, he's the... Yes. And so, for me. And so, I was like, oh, this is kind of the joy that I had when I was younger. And so, for me, social media even opened up my eyes, even more to wrestling because when I got on social media, man, on Monday nights and Thursday nights, like, like, like, it would be in my whole time. Like, it would fall to full of black folks. And they would be like, hey, I would know in any paper. If you was coming up, I would know in any matchups coming up. I would know what black person was breaking history. Like, they would just let me know. And I was like, oh. And I was like, I'm glad that y'all still have a joy. For this, you know, this thing. Right. So, Cam, back to the question I was going to ask for you.

27:41I just wanted us to get that part in. Okay, no problem. But when you go to interview this wrestler, do you know what they're going to do with, like, in character, is it, like, I'm interviewing the person or I'm interviewing the, like, the persona, like, and what determines that I've heard of terms, k-fade, but I'm not 100% sure what it... I think it means people are staying character. But like, how do you know as the interviewer or the person that's talking to him, which one of them is showing up that day? I think I was lucky enough to come into it at a time where it's kind of understood you are getting the person and not the character. Okay. Okay. So, like, a really cool thing was, you talk about, you know, being a fan in the 80s. When I got on with the ringer, the first thing I did was call my buddy, Ricky Starks. He goes by Ricky Saints now. We're here at Austin. I had known him for a while.

28:41I give him a call. We get on with AW. We do the thing. It's great. I gave you a couple of AW people that I interview my man, Carmelo Hayes from WWE. But I had, I didn't know the people in AW as far as, like, public relations and that. But public relations typically sits on the call with you when you do an interview. So, we're Ricky. You know, that's my man. I've probably been writing that story for two years before we even talked. So, we probably came across really great as a conversation today, guy. And then I interviewed, as one guy they have, who's actually from North Carolina. My man, that's Harvard. And then Tony Storm. So, that goes great. So, by this time, it's like the end of the year. And I said, I was trying to make a splash, right? I was like, it's the end of the year. I want to do something cool. I said, Danny, I need to talk to the man. He was like, you want to talk to Tony, Carm? I was like, no, I don't want to talk to Tony. I don't have any, I actually have no interest in talking to billionaires or people with access to billionaires.

29:41I was about anything. Like, what are we going to talk about, right? You're probably a nice guy. I can't relate to that. You got going on. You can't relate to that. Right. I said, no, I want to talk to the man. I want to talk to Sting. And he was like, I want to talk to Sting. And he was like, all right, let me ask him. So, next thing I know, I want to phone Sting, right? Wow. And to answer your question, what I was asking Sting about was how his retirement tour in AW had gone so smooth and how it didn't work out in WCW. It didn't work great in CNA. It did not work in WWE. So, I think with me, the approach is always, what are your motivations? What got you here? You know, you know, how does your body feel? What's your outlook on what's going to happen? So, I don't think I've ever gotten anybody who's really leaned into character because I'm asking you things about your life.

30:42Right. Not being intrusive, but what makes you want to be man in face paint, man in tightness, right? You know, so, and I mean, every once in a while, like, I'll ask a question that kind of demands something in character. Like, you know, like, like, who do you, who do you want to fight? Or, I had a guy a couple of weeks ago, he had just signed with AEW, my man told me I was so champ, and I was like, champ, you know, you did a WWE, all your buddies are an AEW, who do you want to fight? And he gives me some names. My man, Kav Knight, is, he's actually fighting the champion, this kind of Wednesday, but my man, Kav Knight, got from Atlanta, Georgia, played safety in college, you know, hyper athletic. I said, Kav Knight said he wants it, and the guy stopped, and he says, no, he doesn't. So, this is not what he wants. He said, he said, credit to a man,

31:42and for the kid, he's a great bump tech, I'll lock him down if I need to, so everyone's going to be involved in this product, so everyone's going to be involved in this product. OK. But I will get to the snow, and you'll get more of people in character at like press conferences. Oh. Because they'll ham it up a little bit then. But yeah, for the most part, I think the space that they operate in now, you are kind of getting the person with some of the characters. That makes sense, because I watch ESPS sometimes in the morning, and they are, awkwardly trying to like combine wrestling with sports and they haven't quite figured out the formula Yeah, I don't think I think to be honest They really need to bring in some like people from the righting side and the hosting side of wrestling onto those spaces Yes, um to be the bridge rather than to have like, you know, Steve and they try to ask the miss something because it's just It's like a little too. They don't have enough of the from knowledge and it's not familiar enough So it just comes off like like a paid advertising instead of like somebody kicking it, which I think they they I think what they were like is it

32:47Have like the personalities come in and kick it that makes me at home go. Oh, I do seem pretty cool. And then bam I'm watching wrestling, but they haven't figured it out yet. It's not you know, um, you know David Dennis, right? Yes Okay, so he was on there going into the pay review. He was on there like Friday morning and He has you going to be on Cody Rhodes And everybody's asking questions. It's a man. David stops. He says Cody. I just want to apologize Nobody said happy blackhead through month to you. Rahim Right I think they're absolutely still kind of finding the way to do that like I know, um, you know, Oshay Jackson, Jr And um and his guy who is rich eyes and what are your eyes as producers? They had John Cena on there Yeah, it's mixed. It's like uh to varying degrees They like you could tell us they're early in the phase of trying to work it out. Oh What's it dogs man? He said

33:48Uh booster booster was like I need some attention. Uh first I would say hi boost He was like I'm gonna get on this podcast. I don't care if I got to play you with this toy I'm gonna get mine. I'm gonna get mine. I'm gonna get mine. Now what's the difference when you was saying how when they interview people when you interview people You get the person I noticed my son silly, but I want to get to understand what's in between that and the ones that are like Playing when they come out and they outfits and it's like somebody talking to him and they like come out and they they talk Yeah, I'ma destroy this person. I like like like like like like that is different from what you do, great Discover a spectacular island destination with crystal blue seas endless sunshine and the cool Bahamian breeze Baham are located in Nassau Bahamas offers your choice of three luxury hotels Over 45 fine dining in nightlife venues John Batista's all new jazz club the Caribbean's most luxurious casino And one of the kind experiences for the entire family like our 15-acre tropical water park

34:48Wildlife sanctuary world-class golf course and so much more visit bahamaar.com today Sometimes all we want is more of the same like another round of golf played from a channel with 24-7 coverage Another look at the garden and the deer as they pick their way through it another taco Tuesday Followed by a whatever's in the fridge Wednesday and to get more of the same all we need is a little help With adaptable care plans from qualified compassionate caregivers matched to your family's needs Homestead can help you and your passions stay home no matter what's on your horizon Visit home instead online for a better what's next Your vehicle Doesn't just get you from here to there It's a bridge to the people and places that matter most It's how you show up for your family your community and everyone else that depends on you That's why for 125 years Firestone has been building tires with one thing in mind To deliver products that are as reliable as you are

35:49Firestone always dependable since 1900 Wasn't that delicious so good your bill ladies I got it People with the Wells Fargo active cash credit card prefer to pay because they are an unlimited 2% cash rewards unpurchases Okay rock paper scissors for it rock paper scissors shoot no The Wells Fargo active cash credit card visit willsfargo.com slash active cash terms apply I Yeah, so those um so that's gonna be like those are people employed by those companies Oh, okay Renate the cat you got sure you're firing sacks in but yeah a lot of those people Bellis a lot of them did like go to college for broadcasting and did go for journalism and work other places beforehand But yeah, um a lot and credit to them Keep in straight faces during the

36:49I don't know what I mean that infamous Hulk Hogan we coming for you nigga like I would have walked I would have literally run away from the camera laughing like I They were like what ride you got to hold the mic. I'm like no. I'm down here now I can't believe that just happening that this is my life Hey today credit maybe they're like All right We'll see Maybe seven of them said they were like this is what I'm gonna do when I get my hands on him and we get in the ring It's like you have to be in like the rock Like if the rock is that funny. I can't just be there holding that mic. I'm laughing. You know, yeah, he's delivering them lines We did a thing It was it was a W showing in July and it's me it's Shelton Benjamin It's Bobby Lashley and it's MVP And if you ever met Shelton Benjamin and Bobby Lashley and MVP A three of the biggest niggas ever exists

37:50They are monsters of Shelton um Shelton from Orangeburg, South Carolina A D1 wrestler from Minnesota Bobby Lashley armed forces champ MVP 10 years in the pen. So he'd be Different type of big functional functional muscles. Yeah, I'm with all them and they're they're In character pretty much when we're talking, but I've I've interviewed Lashley. I've met Shelton. Um, you know, I know peace. So we're all like dinner to talk. So I say Uh, I said Shelton You know, you've been a tag team guy forever, you know, you and Charlie Haas has so much success and um What's it like tag team and Bobby Lashley? He said may I really it just makes it easier to win and I was like You know, it's kind of unfair, right and peace stops me And he's like fair, but you mean fair. They know what they signed an up for And he doesn't say he's like, yo, so if you're telling me if you uh, if you in Africa and you want the planes And you see a gazelle and he's out here walking and he does the wrong thing and I stop. I say how was he walking peeing?

38:56He doesn't get everybody just bust out It goes get to a point. I can they they couldn't I couldn't do right. Yeah. Yeah Because I would be like, no, this is funny. It's him. I got a laugh. Yeah. I don't know how they do it, man When I see those interviews Yeah, I'm always like bro, you like cuz that's the other thing It's not necessarily scripted in that you're like reading a teleprompter The like the rock says certain things are certain timing like when you get the it doesn't matter what your name is perfect like dog I would just Fold over crime laughing and they'd be like this isn't even working like this act this bit actually only works If you look intimidated when he cuts you off. I'm like, but it's so fucking funny dog. Um, I will be wrapping them up like Yeah Right, I'm looking at the camera. It don't matter what my name is. He's right. It don't matter No, Rod. You're not supposed to go a lot. It's it's not a yes and yeah Nobody's a happy man. Did you did you ever try your hand at wrestling? Did you ever like whether the like the the academic in school

39:59wrestling or the entertaining style? Absolutely not Never really wanted to I um, you know, you grow up in Texas play football Play football you run track you power lift. There's pretty much a year round thing. So it was never um I never had interest in like Participating on that level, you know Um, I knew I was gonna go to college. I knew I was gonna get a good job And I knew I was just going to go from there and enjoy things right on the outside like you know I got a bunch of guys. I went to school with who Went to you know A D2 or D3 school tried to walk on somewhere that last day of football was the last day of football Right, I mean like it was done. I never really um until what's interesting now. I spent so much time Not just around like the WWE and AEW guys, but I go to like The shows at the high school gyms or the shows at the bar You know like the independent kids um, and you know that we're talking

41:0019 20 years old, you know with hopes of Yeah, I love it man. I love picking those kids brains Right in the bottom when I get a chance and just like going like it It's crazy Going to an independent show and being the most famous person at the show You know because these kids are trying to come up right so like and it's cool because they'll like thank you for being there And be like happy they met you and it's like nah It's not what it's have you have you have you seen anybody in one of these shows that later on went on to be in like AW or WB. Oh, absolutely, man. Absolutely. Can you tell like can you when you see him you like? Okay, that dude He don't be going to the next level. Yeah There's um This girl from Dallas and names Maya world and uh She is Maya probably about about five three, but she saw it as a rock super athletic Uh Used to come out to this lotto song that I don't listen to no damn lot. I got this on the rotation though. Right

42:06Like great attitude, but everybody knew you know what I mean everybody knew it was happening and then um Her and another girl I wrote about they got signed with AW like two months ago. Wow, but no, it happens all the time like um, I actually wrote a uh I wrote a Easy, but I guess we'll call it right um, it was I worked with my great artist Lauren Moran I called it the next up lineup and so it was uh like five wrestlers who I knew were going to get there not because Uh, let me see you know, I'm gonna pull it up. Yeah. Yeah, no problem Yeah, not because like I'm special, but because I knew like They're good and so some of them were already signed um, but some of them were kind of on their way and um we uh After this um, you know few of them like one of them was my mantric Williams who had a huge

43:08Reaction on Saturday night. I told you buy it. Just got signed. It's funny. The other girl My wasn't on their her tag team part of high arm was on there uh by that time Jordan grace had got moved up to Jordan grace. They got moved up to the main roster in WWE. We now I'm in the controversy. So no you know There is an understanding and not just like from somebody watching on the outside There's whispers the whole time like oh, I know such and such is going to be out of here I know somebody's looking at them and you'll see like coaches show up um, wow, you know you'll um See certain people backstage that don't normally be backstage like um, you know what what is what is a coach doing in wrestling In this type of wrestling is it the more the physical like hey, you got to you got to know your technique for when you grab this person You jump off the road or is it the other stuff to this like a man when you give an interview you got to have this type of energy Or like it don't matter how good you wrestling if don't nobody want to watch this shit like how like how did they balance that

44:13They are full service coaches. Okay, like you are now so like with like a WWE NXT You are going to one person or two people for psychology. You are going to a promo class No, they literally put in kids in class and like teach them history Like the history of WWE Which you should know class that they teach down there. Yeah, so that you know what you're doing. Right. That's kind of um Yeah, man, they are locked in with those kids people at people wrestlers Who are deep in the wrestling that shit is real. So you don't want random ass questions about somebody that was like before you were born and you look like Oh And that's part of why they teach them that particularly once you're on certain level and my question is this I know a lot of things have changed, but with Social media and like particularly in college and and with the NILs not as the Have you seen more people now with agents at an earlier age or have you seen more people getting targeted kind of younger and younger

45:17Yes, that is what a great question all of great questions. Um, so When I was um the Royal Rumble was in San Antonio. I did put a link to the uh the preview so you guys can see what I'm talking about. Okay Um, but uh when the Royal Rumble was in San Antonio at the beginning of 2023 um WWE invited me to their NIL dinner um and so You know, we get there to the dinner and um You know big E who uh play football and I was there um Oma who played basketball at South Florida is there Bianca Belair who ran track at Tennessee. She's there. So it's so all the kids can meet them But I'm sitting next to these kids who are shot putters and cheerleaders and basketball players still in college right I'm saying hey when you come out WWE, you know has something for you right um and even like if you look at the preview uh, you know trick

46:18Was a receiver at Hampton and at South Carolina Care played in a college uh in New York um, so yes They are looking for the kids in college because that's that's the other thing about why it was always something I kind of took serious again I'm a I'm a Texas guy. I'm a football guy so many of these guys came from college football, you know The Rock University of Miami Stone Cold Steve Austin uh, UNT, you know You know Kevin Nash play basketball um at Tennessee, you know a lot of those guys come from that super athletic background And so yeah, they are absolutely still looking for that and yeah NIL if they see you got promises like they're looking at you in college Yeah, I can see that because and you talked about like different levels like like is it like Send my pro pro like like like like and that's just out of my ignorance like I know it's like This is like the big boys and there's probably some up underneath them Yeah, no, so like on the independent level um, you know, you have your

47:22Big Ur independent brands who can Go to a big city and run a show they'll go to whatever town WrestleMania's in and they'll run a really big show that weekend because they have that node right right um like here in Texas Right now new Texas out of Houston is kind of the the big independent promotion while they have good indie talents You'll also see people who were assigned to like an AW come down and um, you know wrestle their champion Or wrestle somebody a high up on their car so absolutely um and then Kind of the if that's like the independent level you'll have your your mid majors like a like a major league wrestling um, and then of course the uh Kind of at that at that highest level you'll have your ww or a wtna Which you're gonna have those those super recognizable stars and then once you start talking about International you have your new Japan's you have your cmll your A your triple a in Mexico. So yes, the answer is absolutely yes trying to sort them all out would take so long

48:27But there's absolutely the really small indie the recognizable indie Um kind of the the boutique indie and then you'll have the stuff that you see on tv So absolutely. It's kind of like sports too and that like fans of wrestling About the nature of just life and entertainment and how corporate our culture has become you kind of end up Learning all the backdoor stuff with the companies like oh this company bought this company and oh they they wouldn't sign this wrestler So like when you when I was younger, it's just kind of all felt like My fuck is it just putting on costumes and wrestling every week, you know, it's like oh, yeah It's simple and then then you grow up and you get stuff like the dark side of the ring Um, and you get all this like background to like nah, this what happened at home or oh you thought there's one wrestler had just quit Nah, man. They did blank. So like um, I can imagine that you know Much like sports as I've gotten older has become the similar like oh nah, you know the real reason they trade little good Dodges so they can trip more the team to Las Vegas. I'm like, what whoa? What I just thought they thought he was lazy right now

49:33So how do how do we turn left and Roger you making me think Uh, when it's something that you love like people wrestling and love that thing like I love like Marvel So for me I get into the weeds like a lot of people no way more about that shit Then I used to be a kid that just was like oh cartoon movie or whatever now. I'm like, oh nah, man Spider-Man can't be in that because this the third movie and they can't That like once you optioned to uh, once you've option Uh, the the the actor for five movies. You can't just burn it. I'm like what what is happening my brain? It used to I used to just be like ooh Spider-Man in the movie. That was it Yes, and it's also one of the things where just like like you say when you We're talking to you making me think about the Marvel stuff and I was thinking yeah, like I'm somebody who if somebody tells me all the Marvel movies is the same my brain explodes. Yeah, my uncle I'm that type of nerd. I was like no, but motherfuckers ain't the same No sound shone it's fucking terrible. Just because Marvel show up. It don't mean it

50:37It's it's fighting them and they look at me like I've lost my mind my uncle Who grew up, you know, obviously the time before us He's still very like he don't know any of it Right, so when we have nerd conversation. He loves talking to me about nerd movies and stuff But he'll he'll like give me his pitch his ideas. Oh Somebody said or I'll be China in the chat. Yeah, dad. You really had it pulled out the the shirt and everything not the airbrush So look to China and my man Eddie Guerrero on the back. Damn Yeah, I feel like I was just saying gangster lean right now Portals for this for the whole man. Um, but yeah, it is kind of interesting how that all goes down with the like The knowing the background of it because like my uncle he grew up in a different time So he'll he'll talk to me about nerd stuff whenever he sees a movie like nephew. Let me ask you about this Did you like Superman or whatever? I'm like, yeah, I love that ball of blood whatever and then he'll be like You know what they should do in the sequel. They should have Captain America fight Superman. I'm like, oh

51:40Yeah, you grew up before any of that matter like yeah, you didn't even know what company made the movie when Like it's a simpler time was miss it almost Not knowing and not being like you know the reason that they had to stop the the Netflix Marvel shows is cuz Disney about them. That's not cuz the show's doing bad like it's too much. I'd rather just go back there hoping that you know Uh To us together hope our man could fight GI Joe and just move on my life. All right, throw a little transformers in the book too like it's nice to have a A level of respect and a level of trust to where like The wrestlers and the people in wrestling companies will could find things in you and talk to you about things But it's also like I wish I didn't know any of that You don't have to do that. Yes, I can see these are my heroes not my heroes Discover a spectacular island destination with crystal blue seas endless sunshine and the cool Bahamian breeze

52:42Baham are located in nasa Bahamas offers your choice of three luxury hotels over 45 fine dining in nightlife venues John Batista all new jazz club the Caribbean's most luxurious casino and one of the kind experiences for the entire family Like our 15 acre tropical water park wildlife sanctuaries world-class golf course and so much more visit bahamara.com today When you stay in your home what you love gets to stay too from the gardens that grow wild to the grandkids that run wilder From the Friday night baseball games to the Sunday morning brunches Even the daily crosswords and weekly book clubs There's room for it all with help from home instead the largest in-home senior care network With over 30 years of trusted experience Delivering the peace of mind you deserve visit home instead online for a better what's next Your vehicle Doesn't just get you from here to there It's a bridge to the people and places that matter most

53:44It's how you show up for your family your community and everyone else that depends on you That's why for 125 years Firestone has been building tires with one thing in mind To deliver products that are as reliable as you are Firestone always dependable since 1900 Wasn't that delicious so good your bill ladies. I got it. No, I got it Seriously, I insist I insist at first. Oh, don't be silly. You don't be silly People with the Wells Fargo active cash credit card prefer to pay because they are an unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases Okay, rock paper scissors for it The Wells Fargo active cash credit card visit willsfargo.com slash active cash terms apply I didn't see it be they have problems too. No man. I made a joke the other day about something in wrestling Or maybe I retweeted Rick flare something it was like Rick flare did something cool or whatever, you know

54:48We see Rick we're from short. So we see Rick flare all the time Like like it's not even like a it's like not even an event anymore Like nick right out there. Yeah, I was a hair state of Rick flare came by, you know at the horn is game the pants is game Like every like 10th time you see him somebody will go whoa, but that's about all you know what I mean, right? So anyway I think he tweeted something or somebody retweeted him or something and A person I was looking at the replies a person had a picture of what appeared to be Rick flare Going down on a woman in an airplane And it was like when you go answer this and I was like boy, it was a time when we wasn't supposed to know this about our We wasn't supposed to know from we did I assume it yes But I didn't have visual confirmation nor needed we know way too much now And you know wrestling man like it can get super dark with some of this stuff. So like how to um especially I think

55:49During COVID and during like me to movement during some of the racial put back and stuff push back on like at the George Floyd and all that stuff Black lives matter movement If was that what was it like to be like it around wrestling during that time because I think a large part of wrestling I was a kid was like yes racist, but it's kind of supposed to be Right Like that's the stand you but I'm here too. Yeah, and I think during like the last say 10 years It was like but do it have to be and not and it's like it open up a whole new possibility for black people in wrestling So what was it like to be around the the wrestling world as that reckoning came through Well me too during wrestling is really crazy Because it was a lot of again like independent wrestling man like where of course, you know We all know what WWE is going through right now with this man Which is Wow in safe in safe and they're still going through it because like is he still is he still around I thought he like

56:52Dive that's it or whatever Okay, so he's not around, but depending on who you ask they'll say yes he is I don't got no girl. Okay, I see what you mean. Yeah, yeah It was You know, there was the it was a ring boy scandal saying that you know they had to do from way back who was The boys not the men the boys they used to have the ring that he was touching them inappropriately Settled on that you know, it was it was a lot, but even like really during me too on the independent level Independent wrestling is really the Wild West. There's no governing body. There's no TV sponsors And find out a lot of people was treating a lot of people bad And so they know HR Did y'all watch any of that America's next top model of documentary? No, no, I did but I I It felt like If you watched American's top American top model and you didn't know all that was happening then you was just literally willfully

57:56Yeah, I barely watched the show was like oh, yeah, I treat these people bad, but go go ahead But no, what I um a part of the documentary is people on Reels and TikTok and YouTube and all that Relitigating what they saw right right so he is kind of a thing for social media where people aren't wrong For stating the things that we know, but let's be another certain age. It's weird like and it's not an dispersion on Even review because I'm sure your family's that's a little bit perfect, but You know, I know you know, no stories person otherwise of you know Somebody's your granddaddy used to beat your grandma, but we never talked about right your granddaddy had a family across town But we never talked about right there's not talking about it anymore And so it is again, especially, you know, I'm not I wasn't 20 during COVID. I was back into my third right until there is a real reckoning in real time of oh

59:01We were going to talk about this people are upset about this like there was this a man when When Kofi Kingston Got his push to to win the WWE title. It was it was crazy You know you got all sides saying we should have had this he's the guy Why haven't we had a black chap him other than the rocket book or tea in forever and you know There was a pushback about you know on the other side why it shouldn't be that um, I think what really happened though I shout out to guys like cash out of the guys like while they we did fight like you were saying Twitter and social media on Monday nights. It was like there's all these black people in today, right? I think with whatever people agreed or disagree with When we found community during COVID um, I think it made it made all the things you felt As far as like black people and brown people in their space and wrestling and how they should be treated And if you look at it now, it ain't perfect, but a lot better

1:00:05No, it's obviously a lot better just from like I said just from what I can see as a person that's a casual observer like um Shit, I still remember like a couple years ago and the start coming out my timeline be these badass like women looking fine It's fuck and they be wrestling out like what what what is this again? What when is this happening like like this Like it wasn't like that when I was coming up, you know, and so it definitely is like something to it I think also like wrestling is still a business is capitalism and The bad parts of capitalism with world documented. We all know But the quarter quote good part of capitalism is when it's just like oh, it's some money over there It's some money like I like I always call it Disney capitalism where I'm like I don't give Disney credit for being like Oh, it's such a great court. There's such a wolf company that looks out for us No, I was like what I like about Disney is that For after 40 years of Star Wars with just like two black people in the whole goddamn thing right

1:01:10Black people was on Twitter like I wish I could buy some Star Wars, and it was like oh, we got you hold on hold on Caught get some people on the phone. Let's go get this money. I feel like wrestling has kind of done that It's had to adjust it with the culture like whenever there's a cultural change Um, I guess Last year and Shawn Michaels is in charge of NXT, which is essentially WWE's College class black way of saying it right is where you go before you get to the main roster, and I asked him. I said look Shawn You know you have Now trick Williams you got Carmelo haze you got over family you got You know nxt at the top is noticeably black Is that by design? He said listen man. I would love to take credit for it, but Ain't the best guys we got right like I'm not going to deny the best people we got because of how they look right It's a good problem, and I was like yeah, it's the great best base exists

1:02:11And in a lot of society now we're getting a cultural pushback, you know Even Trump's election people look at as a cultural pushback is you know all these corporations like, you know Target's like take down the black signs. We we good now Yeah, now they crying because they don't lose money because they don't realize they could spend money too Yeah, it's wrestling And like I don't even be participating like that. It's just literally it was so blatant like I can't if you it's like I always say about our Kelly It's not that I'm such a great person that I would never listen to somebody who did a crime Obviously listen to artists that but if your music make me think about the crime It's very hard for me to listen to the fucking music man. That's not my fault That's you. Yes, and I feel like you know, that's what happens in a lot of these areas That's what happened with target is I can't go to target without thinking like man They kind of do black people in the trash Like I go to Walmart, and I remember I was telling somebody like I went to Walmart instead of like Walmart had been fucked up with black people. I was like well, they didn't do it lately. Yeah

1:03:16So that's where everybody going that yeah, they got another six months or whatever So yeah, it's wrestling are you is there any Fill in of people trying to push it back to the old days of like a man We got to go it's getting too woke or whatever the fuck People are saying in other areas of life. I think And the genies out the bottle man. I don't think you can go back. I think um so like even on On my level, right? They I'm one of the people, but I'm not just Not just the people I'm one of the people they send black and brown people to Because they know that that story's gonna get told the right way They know that we can talk about things I had oh there's also the flip side. I have one wrestler tell me I asked some I asked the wrestler about how black it was right now He said, man, we the best at it like what can we do? I'm not gonna put that piece. Yeah Right, let me say I'm gonna save you. I'm gonna save you

1:04:16But white person might have left that in there right no There's a pushback that he would receive right But um no yet, it's there's too much talent at the top at this point Now I'll say this there are still white wrestlers. You don't want to lose the black wrestlers I can see that I could imagine and and that I'm it's like being the it's like being the Alexis Texas arrested Yeah You know Alexis Texas is from San Antonio And so I knew Alexis Texas Oh, I had a lot of but I had a lot of brothers knew her outside of the of work. I knew she wasn't in her wraps Um, that's the word on the street. That's the word on the street I'm gonna shout out to Alexis Texas man. That's it. That's it. That's it. It's a local hero. Anyway Um It's in the last I think um and I think the biggest thing about it um when you have women like Bianca Belair And women like Mercedes Monet who you can't

1:05:17One everybody wants to look at them. Right everybody wants to be them. They got a little white girls with big fake Bianca Belair braids Wow, no black face just a big brain. Yeah, yeah, it's like it's like the first time you see a white kid in black panther And like you had to have that moment in your brain. I like is this okay. Oh actually, this is great This is amazing This is what I said this for you. So this was before I even had a job. I said if you look at uh You remember Ahmed Johnson, mm-hmm Okay, you can Ahmed Johnson. You look at Ron Simmons for Rook Um, you look at the rock. You look a show Benjamin. This is man and like go back before that Rocks dad Rocky Johnson Tony Atlas like Vince McMahon always wanted the all American black baby face That is the thing that he wanted because he understood the value in them, you know He's a guy from the south. He knows he knows that guy from high school He knows that guy from the diner. He knows that guy from the drive and like you know that guy They found it in Bianca Belair and I don't know if it was on purpose, but that is the most

1:06:22You know all American beautiful girl big smile Shoulders big is the room um makes her own gear and looks fly doing it like he found that and That thing appeals to everybody Like they're white black or in between, you know, and I mean like there's um Somebody said it years ago. They were like If every major American sport if The man or woman at the top is typically black Why wouldn't that happen in wrestling right in simulated sport like how can you you can't make sense of it, you know especially when you have the ability to choose Who makes it and who doesn't right, you know, so I think that I Overcorrection isn't the word, but now like right now Like just on WWE's main roster. We got three niggas with dreads at the top We got a nigga from South Carolina. We got my major bond evidence from North Carolina We got a nigga from logos Nigeria at the top doing it

1:07:26And they're undeniable and there's nobody who can say they shouldn't be there because they are just that good Why why was it because I like I said I follow it on the periphery But I my friends who are deep in the wrestling it was like a big deal when it was time for a black person to become champion again How long was the the the earth of like, you know, not having a black champion between that Okay, so You know the rock was off and on Retired, right, but the rock won his first ww championship in 1998 The second black ww champion was during COVID. Oh Actually, so right before COVID Kingston the year before COVID. I apologize. Whoa. So basically It took until like WrestleMania 37

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1:09:27Visit thanghamar.com today and discover a vacation destination where memories are made for a lifetime Baham are life spectacular Sometimes all we want is more of the same like another round of golf played from a channel with 24-7 coverage Another look at the garden and the deer as they picked their way through it Another taco Tuesday followed by a whatever's in the fridge Wednesday And to get more of the same all we need is a little help With adaptable care plans from qualified compassionate caregivers matched to your family's needs Homestead can help you and your passions stay home no matter what's on your horizon Visit homestead online for a better what's next Your vehicle Doesn't just get you from here to there It's a bridge to the people and places that matter most It's how you show up for your family your community and everyone else that depends on you That's why for 125 years Firestone has been building tires with one thing in mind To deliver products that are as reliable as you are

1:10:30Firestone always dependable since 1900 Wasn't that delicious so good your bill ladies I got it no I got it Oh Fargo active cash credit card prefer to pay because they earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases Okay rock paper scissors for it rock paper scissors shoot no The Wells Fargo Active Cash Credit Card visit Wills Fargo dot com slash active cash terms apply Yeah, yeah, yeah, good like a half year eight month run it was okay, you know, but I know I just know how we are and I know people was like they're gonna he don't lose this week, we had him lose in one move to Brock Lesnar, it was bad, it was bad, it was bad, it was bad, I forgot about it, it bursted in Oh, no, he was WCW champion and when he went to WWE, they made him World Heavyweight Champion, which was an extension of the WCW title, they made Mark Henry World Heavyweight Champion, they made Bobby Lashley ECW Champion, but no, between the Rock, but in his first title in 98 and Kofi winning his, I mean, and Batista, you know, Batista Black, but

1:11:59yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's like, he's like if Tiger Woods son one, yeah, yeah, yeah, he counts, right, like he, he in the wikipedia page, but we know what it is in the streets, you know, we know, yeah, so, um, yeah, it was that long and of course, like shortly thereafter, Bobby Lashley wanted and Kofi Kingston wanted, I'm sorry, and um, big E wanted, like, so it, it, it, so now, so now they in the rotation, okay, and then of course, like Bianca Belair and, um, Sasha Banks for Sadie's Monet, and then, you know, women's WWE champion, don't want to take any credit away from them, right, but yeah, it was a big gap, it was a really big gap, it mattered when he came around that second time. And once, I know there's a difference, but when you solo like the rock and you like tag team, I know those are kind of like two different things, so other people, the whole thing is our tag team, I don't do solo, and there are some people that they're solo and they don't tag team.

1:13:03Well, it just gonna be interesting, it was interesting, so right there, y'all is backyard, the hardy boys, you know, Matt and Jeff were a tag team, tag team, tag team, you know, they split them for a while, you know, Jeff became WWE champion of World Champion, Matt became ECW champion, created a real good persona, but right now, after, you know, 30 years in the game, they're a tag team again, you know, they won NAC tag titles, they're the tag champions of West Side Guns Promotion. You know, so there are guys who just tag forever, a lot of times, and the weird thing about tag teams, a lot of times there is a guy who becomes the one, and the other guy becomes the one A, and they'll separate for a while, like Jay Uso, Jay Uso, you know, never intended on being a singles wrestler, you know, we've met him, we've done a couple of features, and he was like, I never planned on this, my brother got hurt, it was during COVID, we had to figure something out. And now, you know, he's one of the biggest singles guys, even though they're a tag team again, so it comes around, but yeah, there are absolutely people who will be career tag team guys, and love doing that because they're like, yo, have to work, say money.

1:14:16Yeah, I feel you, this is funny, man, because like, I would not have seen this still being a thing when I was an adult, like when I was a kid, I was like, oh, wrestling's fork is, even though my uncle's watching this stuff too, but I was like, I was probably four kids, and then I'll get older, and you don't, it won't be, but it feel like it morphed into just bigger and bigger, big time sports. I mean, these deals, they have like Netflix now, ESPN, I mean, it's bigger than I ever thought it would be, you know, I mean, Linda McMahon's running department of education. I mean, this thing is huge. I might say, okay, no, Charlie Kirk on the side of buildings, just what is we doing, we, you know, we need to learn about our heroes, our national hero. I want to figure for him. What are we doing? What are you looking for to a wrestling coming up, man? Um, it's what we talked about, man. I am looking for these kids to end up being the guys.

1:15:19Um, it is, it is so fun. Um, you know, I, I'm a college advisor, and so helping college kids, you know, navigate their way to where they want to be, you know, is a passion of mine and with WWE. Like you said, um, you know, going to these independent shows and then watching like the kids get signed, um, and you know, knowing that you guys have a relationship. I was telling, I told you Vaughn Evans, Vaughn Evans, 21 years old, smilebabies, his room can jump out the gym. We had a great conversation. I told him at the end of it, I said, look, um, you know, you and I have a good rapport. I'm also 40 years old. Um, when you're doing these interviews, if you find somebody close to your age, will you feel like you vibe with and can tell your story, latch on to them. It might be who writes you by offer. Right. Um, but it would change for me most, you know, I got a bunch of friends in the business. And so, um, I don't.

1:16:22It's not for me anymore. Oh, I can't wait to see what the WrestleMania made offenses, you know, um, and, and, you know, I, do I miss that sometimes I absolutely do. But my thing is the people I've met, the people I've interacted with watching them navigate the space and get to where they want to get to is just the most rewarding thing. And knowing that there are more stories to tell. So I'm always looking for who kind of breaks out and what got them there. You know, so, man, it is, um, it's a fun gig telling the stories. And I just want the opportunity to tell more stories, man. It's a lot of fun. When you're interviewing people, have you ever really sat down and talk to them about here? Because most men, like you said, now we got Dres. At period time, he was like, bowheaded and nothing. And I'm assuming a lot of women were weeks, like you really will, like, particularly black women, you can come out there with like your natural, like, throw or something like that. So I'm just wondering, like, have you ever really kind of talk like when your interviews be like, hey, you know, like, how do you take care of it or how has things changed or whatever, like, like, like talking to them, interviewing them.

1:17:29We've talked about aesthetics, maybe not hair specifically, but being able to be a bit more free and lenient and lean more into your culture. Like, I got, I can tell the stories fine and I sell them, but my man Ricky Cites was trying to come up with casual clothes to wear. And I was like, yeah, Rick, have you seen the upside down fonts on these shirts and hats? He was like, yeah, I was like, yeah, you should just put your last name on a crop, flipped upside down. And he's wearing it on TV now. And it looks really cool. Like, because, you know, with, I will say this though, I don't talk hair with the women, because a lot of them wear extensions and it's not my business. Right, right. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. She said that. So was she said that I was like, do I try to set them up? No, that wouldn't be the purpose, baby.

1:18:30No, no, no, can't just a joke. Okay. But I was thinking also, like, that would be a dope deep dive. If there was like a black woman that could get into like that part of the, you know, talk with the black women that are wrestlers, because I think that is fascinating. I mean, it's like the WNBA. I would like to. Well, I'm just like, yo, how did y'all put us out? Y'all are playing fucking 40 minutes of basketball and looking good like. I Worked behind that was a time in my lifetime. You had to pick one. Yeah, like you could be out here looking good You wasn't gonna get the play cuz it was gonna be like girl You can't shoot with my scaring you know, I but like the hairstyles to the makeup and everything like I'm like There's some science in this. Yes, that everybody won't should be able to learn so I know it's a story there Well, I don't lean into it two people but I know absolutely do fantastic writer name lyric wrestling and I'm a man DS ring the bell who um he kind of exclusively

1:19:31Talks to Women wrestlers and as a great rapport with them. So yeah, one thing I don't do. I stay in my wheelhouse saying Yeah, no, it's all good You can be doing an interview in a bonnet. I'm gonna sit up here. We locked in to just me and eyes Yeah, I have no questions Who are your favorite wrestlers growing up, can I man and then you care mm-hmm. Yeah, Scott Hall was my whole time Favorite wrestler raise a remote. Oh Kind of my one. I didn't know he wasn't cute until he showed up on WCW talking like a white man But that's funny. He literally passed away like a couple of months before I Started doing this like as a as a career as a kid and I didn't get to talk to him, but I got to talk to Eric Bischoff about him Buddy Rick Larry was there too because we're players everywhere, right? Talking to Eric Bischoff off to the side. I'm like, I just want to ask you

1:20:33Is anybody ever going to be as cool as Scott Hall? He said absolutely not That they it will just never happen. I love Scott Hall. I was a real big and still in the big Bret Hart fan Bret Hart is the most amazing interview because when you interview Bret Hart You're not interviewing Bret Hart. You were saying hi and then Brett is talking for a half hour Mm-hmm. You just sit back. You're just sitting back and let Brett go What I loved about Brett was how How athletic his wrestling was like it was wrestling with it means to an end not just moves from moves say love that about him loved his intensity Mr. Perfect Kurt Henning. I've never seen anybody that smooth in the ring Those were like my my guys as like a kid You know, I Of course, I get an interview and sting and Brett was so crazy, but I tell you what my a guy I didn't know why I liked him when I knew I liked him and I understood more of why when we finally got to talk

1:21:38Jates make Roberts. Oh my god. He was just an incredible person in the sense of he battled addiction his whole life And the space that he's in now kind of helped to inform like why he would do the things he did I he move a certain way. It's all certain way Of course, I was huge Randy Savage fan. He's absolutely everybody Yeah, man, it was um You know and by the time like a a booker T came around And you know bookies a Texas guy, so I've seen him around I'll talk to him a few times just that crazy like athleticism. He was so lanky and And just wrestled in a way I'd never seen anybody so yeah, I could listen I can go forever. I love Jacqueline Jacqueline was like the first like strong woman. I seen coming from his balance and that's how we've got a song Yeah, man. Um, just uh, yeah, just just a Heart-hitting and hall where my guys as a kid and then just you know as we went on you know, there's there's so many guys and y'all

1:22:40So what about you Karen? Did you have a favorite wrestler growing up or no? My favorite wrestler was I'm and I know he counts it but at the period of time I Love me some motherfuckin whole coke and I appreciate the honesty I'm gonna turn that shirt off. It was like as a child like like like that you know it that's another one that When we didn't know behind the scenes It was just you was allowed to just be like I mean honest, especially as a black person's one of a few places You was allowed to be like I just like this guy who's just a real American who just American And then like he had like that personality that persona and just the bruh It's like he was like Saturday morning cartoons in the person. I don't know if that makes sense He had to swim gym. He had a Saturday morning cartoon and I watched that shit too When I tell you I love I loved him. I love him and Ric Flair

1:23:41Like somebody just it rose Hogan was on some like he was a Scooby-Doo level famous. Yeah Like like you know you've ascended whatever your genre is when you get to be a guest on Scooby-Doo like that's like Oh, this motherfucker famous famous. He was that like if he him the globe trotters and West Batman like any of them showed up on Scooby-Doo You wouldn't blink a eye mr. T. Yes, you know those guys. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I'm not even going like my when I was a key Absolutely loved it. There was just something about Jack I said the brightness and the colors and the personality. He just when he came on he just popped Just that voice it's like it's almost like he demanded the room if that makes sense And so it's one of those things where I was consistently drawn to that but in hindsight, you know He did say brother with their super hard are So he probably should have known some other things to be said with the super hard To just think now where they're like Okay, I don't he's you know my nerves. They'll call people like all

1:24:42And they'll be like he's great until the bell rings sometimes for like they go fuck the bill right so on yeah Yeah The rest of this is just a story I love great wrestlers as much as anybody Sometimes I just want to see some cool shit. Yeah, I don't think that thing You know what I mean But that was a big part of it too. I mean there's so many people that never really touched the ring like that You know it's like the manager, you know That was like a big thing was like this motherfucker's never getting in the ring unless it's for a joke They're like watch them get beat up or something or or like on the rare occasion somebody's manager We'll actually have a good move or two and you'd be like oh no one saw that coming But like you know, so like it what is not if it was simply, you know best man when you go watch like Greco Roman wrestling Like we're here for the show. There's a big-ass TV that you're watching this on for a reason There's people in this arena that don't just want to you know, it's it's it's can't just only be having good moves in the ring

1:25:42But I but maybe that's part of our culture now as we pick everything apart like people don't really appreciate much as a NBA fan This is always like we just came out of the hardest time of the year annually every year, which is all start game and then The at the free agency and then everybody complaining about all the shit So I imagine wrestling has to be the same. We're like yeah, there's a lot more fans, but there are some people Like like like you talk about wrestling like being so big. Yeah, the thing that wrestling has over other entertainment It's cheap Live first-run television every single week. Yeah But that also breeds you having to listen to everybody's opinion on every little Every single week to the point where my buddy hit me like we could go He's like hey, I'm like I just want you to know I've noticed that you don't talk a lot During shows and let's just like oh, that was tight and you keep going

1:26:45Yeah, yeah, I do that. I don't know when what I'm trying to do right When you're wrestling and to try to figure things out for what I'm doing for the job like no, no, no, no I think so like I said the best match I saw oh The best wrestling match, I mean there's a few of them. I would never say just one, but um 6 and 80 Guerrero Ladder match of course Rey Mysterio versus any Guerrero Halloween havoc 97 Rock Austin 3 at WrestleMania 19 was amazing um AJ Styles Samoa Joe and Chris Daniels triple threat for the exhibition title uh, I really really like Was it Charlotte Flair and Rio Ripley? It's just there's so many of them. Oh, we could probably like Probably to break it down by arrow, but like that's so many great wrestling matches for different reasons um

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1:28:54Another look at the garden and the deer as they pick their way through it another taco Tuesday Followed by of whatever's in the fridge Wednesday and to get more of the same all we need is a little help With adaptable care plans from qualified compassionate caregivers matched to your family's needs Homestead can help you and your passions stay home no matter what's on your horizon visit homestead online for a better what's next Your vehicle Doesn't just get you from here to there It's a bridge to the people and places that matter most It's how you show up for your family your community and everyone else that depends on you That's why for 125 years Firestone has been building tires with one thing in mind To deliver products that are as reliable as you are Firestone always dependable since 1900 Wasn't that delicious so good your bill ladies I got it. No, I got it Seriously, I insist I insist at first. Oh, don't be silly. You don't be silly

1:29:59People with the Wells Fargo active cash credit card prefer to pay because they earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases Okay, rock paper scissors for it rock paper scissors shoot no The Wells Fargo active cash credit card visit willsfargo.com slash active cash terms apply I for my favorite wrestler I think it's really just hate to be basic, but I think it is the rock because that's how that's really the person Put me over. Yeah, but I just had to give a shout out to mankind Oh, my phone is amazing. That motherfucker right there. I had never seen nothing I was like he just in there like he just they just went got a normal person except they crazy And he just wrestling and like he was pulling this shit off my fucking be wrestling like half a business suit with jogging pants Falling on fucking follow no tick taxing shit like thumbtacks like he was bleeding every fucking Time he got in the ring. It wasn't saying what that dude was doing

1:30:59Um, and that was that was that was cool, but yeah, I don't you know I feel like he because that was the error that I started watching some of it in Those guys were the ones that stuck out those the rock and man kind of even though I'm you know, it's a bunch of other guys too To imagine falling so far so hard at your teeth grow through your lip Yeah, and you just keep going you just keep and he keep fighting Like you really felt like that was when it occurred to me Obviously late later than everyone else. Well, I was like. Oh, yeah, because you can't fake that You know what I'm saying like I've been obsessed with like man. This shit is fake dog. You already know the outcome But I'm like, I don't know falling two stories into a fucking thumbtack That's sitting in the middle ring and then bleeding all over the place Yeah, that happened that there's no amount of scripting that can make that not have happened and hurt like shit I can't believe you want people to be entertained

1:32:00This badly because I there's nothing I want that badly if you if we were playing in a sport sport like NBA and football and they put Thumbtacks on the middle of the court. I'm like, oh, I'm good then so that y'all don't want to play cool got it That's insane What what is the wildest thing that you've seen at like WrestleMania because I know WrestleMania is like the big else I'm almost like Super Bowl for wrestling So I don't know you've attended some and and just me on the outside looking in I get excited for other people talking about it because they talk about it like I will talk about Super Bowl Like they are like this this is the shit get your tickets We go have a ball like what is the one or some of the wildest things that you see there? I mean the one that comes to mind is So Cody Rhodes comes back to WWE wins the world rumble Everybody's like okay. This is in WrestleMania goes out. This is in LA And everybody's like Cody Rhodes is going to beat Roman Reigns and we all knew it to the point where

1:33:02when you're working the press box at At a wrestling pay-per-view They try to get you to the To the press room for the post shows since possible So when the main events like halfway through because they have you know run charts. They know how long the match is going to be They take us all down to Basically ring side but like more stage side so that we can just go to the room after So Roman wins the match and everybody just stops Like the journalists who all knew that he was going to win the match Stopped and we're all making faces and we're going crazy. My man John Alba God bless John Alba John Alba had written his whole feature About Cody winning the title. Oh Hey, they had to blow it up

1:34:03Cuz he couldn't see he didn't see it coming or like he'd be one Talk to one of us all coming. Wow Big Cody was going to win. We know there was no question and then he did so But here's why it's crazy so After the show Me and my homegirl Susette are outside waiting on the uber and it's late because we had to sit through the whole press conference and you know So uber they don't even want to come so we outside right This brother comes up Comes to the bus stop. He's in his wheelchair He's with his girl so they're waiting on the bus He looks at her. He stops for a second He said I mean Cody's a two and they don't want and I fell down Laughing cuz he was dead serious The bloodlines whole thing was we the one right he said I mean Cody to and he was dead serious. I was like yo wait, so

1:35:05It so was he not supposed to win or just they keep that so tight that nobody found out but the they knew what they what they say was Because listen, right all these guys work together great, right? But the reason People didn't like holkogin backstage. It's a holkogin with playing in politics, right? More kogan was playing in pop now. I'm not saying these guys are playing but there is always a Adjockeying for position, right? So whether it was Roman or somebody in his camp they convinced everybody in wwe that they should Push it another year And so make Cody chase the belt another year, but everybody went into it that day thinking that like To bring it back when I was talking to sting Sting was supposed to beat holkogin clean for the title of star k when he came back Sting said well That was the plan going in I got to the arena and there was a different plan and they came up with this

1:36:10Super convoluted thing that happened to where Sting still won But it made it look like holkogin was supposed to it was nasty. Wow So that's like, you know kind of backstagey stuff, but not it was um This this last WrestleMania, you know, seeing John Cena come out as a bad guy and be Cody for the title in a match that was bad on purpose That was really crazy Um, you know, I went to uh, it's right. He talked about some Marvel Uh, girl, I used to date took me to my first WrestleMania in Miami And we're sitting behind by a while and Anthony Mackey Yeah, this is when the rock came back to fight John Cena. So this is 10 15 years. That's a long time ago Seeing that Miami was was was really wild um, yeah man, I've been Been to a lot of them Um kind of start to lose count when you when you start going for free, um, it gets a little crazy You know, I saw the undertaker lose his streak

1:37:15Yeah, he was what night 21 and oh watch Brock Lesnar You ain't never seen a renegade that quiet man Um, wow because they thought that that we all thought that was never kind of saying you know How how uh, how many WrestleMania is it a year? Is it just one or two? WrestleMania is a Super Bowl with one WrestleMania one a year. Okay. Now Just they went to Italy for WrestleMania 40 a couple years ago. Now it's two nights. Oh, that's what it is Okay, I because we wrote your ex that's like I was thinking I think it's just one because they only talk about like one time a year Yeah, I still um, I've not been to both nights because why why would I ever do that? Um, I went to night one But you know what my family's from Maryland. So um The actually know the first night I sat in the press box the second night. I was like your my grandma's like came up to see me There's like does your grandma want to go and then they they put us at they put us in stands. Oh wow Like yeah, but last year we did it was in Vegas man. We did night one at

1:38:18What is it? Swim club something swim top swim something, but I was like I want to be with homes like I want to have fun But yeah, two nights is a lot, but now it is two nights. Um, but they they kind of got a big four They have the world rumble in January right which determines who Makes it to WrestleMania. So as WrestleMania is in April Summer slams in august and then the survivor series is in November and they have pick reviews every month now But that's kind of there Yeah, okay All right, man. Look, this has been fun Cam. Um, we always interview people the first time that they're on the show Just other the audience and us can get familiar with them. Yes Uh, you got to come back and then we can do segments and play games. No, some guests for sure and all that type of shit Um, but uh, and I know our wrestling people that like wrestling. Yeah, hopefully they they yeah I hope this was really a treat for y'all because y'all know I don't that's my cultural blind spot

1:39:20So I don't know that much and then it's always lost on me when people make these references and I'd be like I wish I was a I wish I knew so now now y'all got y'all got y'all fixed y'all better leave comments on this shit and like it and everything Um, Cam tell the people what to find you man. Mm-hmm. Oh, of course, um Seahawk on most platforms C-E-E-H-A-W-K You can find me on twitter you can find me on instagram on blue sky Um, threads um, but then uh, if you're looking for the writing um, the ringer.com is where you'll find a lot of my wrestling features Um, that doesn't listen. I I don't work at WWE, but when I uh Uh, got hired at Yahoo What happened was I'm a main area of hell wanting um was calling around because he was starting to vertical it at Yahoo And he was like, hey, who do I need to write long form wrestling features and ww He was like, hey, you gotta go get came and hey man, we've been off to the races ever since and we got a great team over there

1:40:21Certainly not just me a lot of great guys, but um Yahoo sports uncrow Is where you'll find uh, a lot of my work over there too Um, South Congress podcast South Congress with a K Um, if you go back in the archives me and my uh my late best friend my man peanut um, we had a running lifestyle show for years and years Um, now it's falling back more into um, my wrestling features. So um, if I do somebody kind of outside of Yahoo I am able to uh, like put the full audio on there just so people can get a feel on how I build my features You know, the things I ask what comes up uh, this last uh last week Um, my man Joel Anderson be the very best journalist go look so much We actually did a half hour talking about the passing of uh, michael 5000 watch from swisher house because you know Uh, jose texas guy. I'm a texas guy and we came up and came down To like what um, so that was really fun to talk about but yeah, um south congress with a K on all of your uh, what did title?

1:41:28Where did title come from for south congress? Oh, so south congress is uh A really uh, happened in bustling block here in austin um south congress with the sea of course um, because the the street actually leads up to the uh, the capital right But um, for me, I got a buddy my man michael hair who um is a personal trainer spent some time training guys for the ufc We grew up together playing a football um, but we were not friends. We just we were real different guys. Right um, but You know um When um, I put on a lot of weight in college and I needed to get back in shape went to go sign up at a gym He happened to be to do the work there um, so you know, meeting somebody in your late 20s and 30s is so different than when you're teenagers Yes, the first time we linked up it was at this restaurant called docks on south congress and I just always remembered um How much you taught me about how people can be different and how you guys can build um even years later

1:42:29And so yeah, that's why I called it south congress. I don't just kind of um, you know us being adults That's finding kind of a new way in the world. So yeah south congress with a kid in the k was just like let's not get sued You know, I mean, I don't know what the right is I was hanging out with a lot of campus at that point. Okay. Okay. It probably has something. Yeah, that's how they do they get in your system like that Uh, all right child. Thanks for listening. We'll be back uh not tomorrow going to harness game But possibly Wednesday definitely Saturday for the feedback show Uh, don't forget pie jam three lost Vegas tickets are in the show notes in the link um and Patron all that stuff is into the show notes and the links uh, make sure you guys sign up and we'll talk to you soon until next time I love you. I love you too. Wow. This is Julian Edelman from games with names I want to take a second to talk about something that's personal to me I've had the privilege of working closely with Robert craft for a long time

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