#22 - On Defense

0:00What's up, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of Weburn Blue. What's happening, Sharon? You know, I actually, I didn't know what I was going to say at the open, but I like your new intro. So that's what I'm going to say, man. It's good to speak. It's good to see you again. Yeah, likewise, man. There's a bit of a high up to the villa result last night, which is a pretty solid game. I think you finally caught up to most of what we've played recently. Yeah, I'm still, you know, behind a few games in terms of my quote-unquote research for the pod, which is I do like to review the extended highlights, but I have watched all the games. And yeah, I was thinking about it this morning, you know, had the result being a little different, I think our mood would also have been a lot lower, a lot more negative. So yeah, I think, well, the Chelsea boys are lucky. They managed to secure a big dub last night. Yeah, it was a big dub. Definitely, I think our mood would have been very affected by it,

1:02because of obviously the awesome result before that, and the draws that, you know, you called, and I begrudgingly tip my hat to you for calling those exactly as they band out. But yeah, after those results, we needed this win, and it was made even sweeter, because I went to sleep right after the game, I watched it live, and it was like, what, 3 a.m. by me, and I was knackered. And when I went to sleep, United were, I guess they would level with Newcastle, and then Newcastle went on to score that winner in the 90th minute water banger by Osula, and I think that really was like fantastic to wake up to and see that, you know, they're now like three points ahead level with Villa, and it's looking good for us. Yeah, I mean, it's funny you mentioned you bring up United, and I don't find, I'm engaging with the rest of the league this season. I mean, maybe it's just because so much shit happens at Chelsea every month, that, you know, it's entertaining enough just to follow the club.

2:06But I feel like also, you know, sacking Maresca and bringing on Rossignia, you know, who has his own kind of like limitations, or like, you know, he didn't have that bigger reputation, right? I feel like that removed all expectation from me for this season. So I actually, like, if you ask me today, I probably don't know exactly how many points Chelsea have. I know, you know, big three points against Villa is basically a six pointer, right? It keeps us in the running for Champions League, but honestly, man, like, I'm just watching Game by Game to see how exactly we're changing. I'm not going to say for better or for worse right now under Rossignia, because like, it's just intriguing in itself. You know, we have a new manager now. He's had his fee under the desk for a few months. And yeah, I feel like we're going to end up where we end up. It's not as like exciting for me. And I feel like, yeah, because if, you know,

3:12if expectations are much lower as a result, if we end up in the Europa League, or dare I say it, conference league again, it wouldn't be such a bad thing. I don't know. Do you feel the same way? No, I don't feel the same way. And I don't think a lot of people would feel the same way, including our ownership group, because I think Rossignia's come out saying Champions League is still the benchmark. And the players are focused on it. He's focused on it. And I think that's that's fair. And I don't think that the goalpost shift, he does have his work cut out for him. There are a bunch of issues that, you know, you pointed out yesterday as well on Twitter that, you know, we're still seeing. So I think we'll get into those. But overall, when you look at it from a game by game perspective, I think I understand, I understand where you're working from. But at the same time, like, I do have one, one, one eye on the table. I think the way the results go is really important for us. I said on our last call that I don't think Asin will have sustained

4:14their push for fourth for one of those top four places. And it doesn't look like they're going to right now. Asal and Citi have pulled ahead. So it's basically the congestion is united on 51 with a goal difference of 11. They're on 51 with a goal difference of five. We're on 48 with a goal difference of 19. And Liverpool are also on 48 with a goal difference of nine. So that's how that's how tight it is at where we are right now. But yeah, I mean, let's just look at, let's look at what we had. There is a sense we lost recorded, right? So it hold on one sec. Just before, just before you move on to, you know, the meat of the pod, right? Do you think, you know, we're in March now. So do you think we achieve Champions League? Do you think he's not just talking the big bollocks, right? He's actually going to get us where we want to go?

5:17I think we do achieve Champions League. You mean like whether we get the Champions League position, right? I think we do get that. And that's what I'm coming to. I mean, we do have, I mean, opt are rated our fixtures is one of the most difficult, right? After the, after the burning game, we have the toughest run in. And I think that we should be able to see ourselves through it. Given the position we're in right now, had we lost to Villa, had United One, we might suddenly be finding ourselves in sixth behind Liverpool. And at that stage with United also ahead, it may have looked more difficult. But given where we are today, I think, yes, we can pull it off. What about you? You said you would be happy with Europa, but realistically, where do you think we end up? I think I'm not really fussed. I would be happiest if we won the title. You know, everything after that is like, okay, it's whatever. I

6:23I don't really have our expectations of us being in the Champions League mainly because I don't see us being Champions League level. But I do find the drop off to Europa League is a bit, there's a huge gap there in quality. So we're definitely looking like, okay, if we scrape, actually, this is probably a question I should ask you, is fifth place going to get Champs League again? Looks like it. Okay, yeah, in which case, I think maybe we scrape it and we know we're in fifth currently, like you mentioned. I see a lot of inconsistency this season, unless you're arsenal and more recently, if you're city, but everybody's capable of a slip up here and there. And I will say, like, on the balance of play, the Villa result last night was a little bit of a surprise, right? Yeah, I think if I was looking at it pragmatically, which I was the last spot,

7:25I called a draw. You said, we're going to lose that and we're going to lose arsenal. I called draws in both. Arsenal was a bit optimistic of me, but I think with Villa, I was giving them a bit of, you know, respect for the work they've done to be in the fourth position. But as I said, then and I'm saying again, now I don't think they sustained that. So given the fact that we were down a goal, we went on a goal very early. Basically, we were, we had the whole match to go at that point. I like how, you know, the team were able to rally. There was, there have been these defensive issues. And there was some nervy moments with Jogginson as well, but of course, we were able to, you know, get the get the first goal, get the second goal. Jopardo was looking on another level, cold palm and go to goal as well. I think it was a good performance. I think we needed it. So the fact that they were able to do that, it may have been a little bit of a surprise, but I think it was, it was a time where we really needed it. And somehow we tend to show up right when the odds

8:30are against us. And that's something I'm sure we're going to discuss a little bit later when we're previewing the fixtures. But yeah, that's my take on the Villa game. And of course, we, like I was saying earlier, we have a whole run before that to look into. So what was your take? And then generally you said you've caught up to all the highlights, right? So you want to go game by game with observations, or you want to just look at like a nutshell, what are you know? I've watched all the games, you know, but memory being what it is. I really, you know, I'll only remember Arsenal and Villa off the top of my head. That's why I like to do the review, but I think like we can talk about the games that we kind of did predictions for in the last pod. Simply because we haven't actually spent a lot of time picking out like the details of what

9:30Rossini is trying to do how he's trying to score goals and how he's trying to win games. And I think that's basically what defines him now as a manager at Chelsea or as a coach at Chelsea, right? Because his hands are not in many other pies, right? He is literally, he is in a way, he's like mainly accountable for the results. So I think we started off with wolves away. Did we both predict wins for that? I think we did, right? Yeah, we both predicted wins for wolves away. I think that was an easy one for the win because of their form as it was. But it was still a two, three, I mean, we beat them away three, two. So it was still not exactly the open and shot case that you would have expected, right? Well, I mean, it depends who you are. I always expect us to concede, which is why, like when you ask me to do predictions, right? It's a question of can we outscore the opponents?

10:36I remember when Klopp first took over Liverpool, I think I think I think I could be wrong memory, you know, being what it is. And it was more of like his first few games, you know, like first 10, 15 games, they're all like Ding Dong battles, you know, like, we're just going to play blood and thunder. There's no real management of the game. We're just going to outscore our opponents. And I think that's kind of the impression I get of Rossini's Chelsea as well. I mean, maybe it's less blood and thunder. He has his own style of play on the ball. But nevertheless, like it still leaves us exposed at the back. And we are still pushing up, trying to win the ball most of the time. I haven't seen as much of the pragmatism as I was expecting. From him, you know, like doing a bit of research into his Strasbourg days, he actually did allow them to drop

11:40into a mid to low block with a five at the back. And I think we've seen that most recently, against Villa once we're trying to see out the result. But aside from that, he's still kind of employed a more mid to high block or high press on top of the defenders just essentially to stop them receiving the ball from the goalkeeper. So all of that stuff is still going on and it's still leaving us exposed in the transition and at the back. So yeah, when you ask me to do predictions, I'm always like, look, we're definitely conceding it's just how many? I guess, I guess your logic is sound. It doesn't help that you compound the fact that the system is leaving us exposed with the fact that our defenders don't always look like they're up to it, right? They always look like they're capable of these silly errors and individual mistakes that will inevitably aid an opponent to end up in goal. And then you have a keeper who can show up as

12:44like sideshow ball or like, I mean, like a buffon on his day, right? It just depends on more movies. And so when you have these these factors that play, it becomes a little tricky to predict. I get it, but we still got to do it, right? I mean, no, we do. We do otherwise. We're not an official podcast of any kind, right? If you're not doing any sort of prediction. But yeah, anyway, we were talking about the Wolves game. I think that was like one of the first games where we really tried to employ Resignia's style going forward. And he really got the best side of Xiao Pedro running the channels and the spaces in behind. Wolves were kind of caught between trying to press us up the pitch and playing into our hands or dropping off deep and letting us come onto them. And our wingers just happened to have good games that day, particularly Neto. But I think we know why being at his old, you know, his old stomping ground. So I think

13:48against Wolves, it was made easier by a little bit of, you know, petulence from their end giving us two penalties. But nevertheless, I think like that's, it's a solid performance, you know, it was at that time, it was definitely like, okay, this is something to build upon. Yeah, it was. I mean, I think it definitely was something to build upon. And you come to the next picture, right? It was leads at home. There is a very big rivalry between Chelsea and Leeds, of course. And I think that was a game where I was so confident we were going to get a win. And I heard this back. And I was like listening to it when you said, look, this is the exact game where we could go up a gate, we could go up a goal and be under sustained pressure at the end and bang, bang, you know, we've conceded to and we lost the game. And we didn't lose it, we ended up drawing it. But it was pretty similar, right? We ended up drawing two to under sustained pressure from them, couldn't keep it out. And they scored two. So there was that. And

14:52yeah, how did you, how did you feel about that one? I mean, again, you mentioned, you mentioned, you know, sharing my thoughts on X. I think we're both quite active on there around the timing of the games. By the way, with Wolves, we only conceded one. It was three one. And you could probably guess how they scored their goal. If I asked most Chelsea fans, like, we're going to concede one goal today, where is it going to come from? Everyone's going to say, oh, it's a corner. You know, we'll score their only goal against us like that. Set pieces in general, like, I get that we have maybe, maybe like on average, a smaller, shorter squad. But this is why you pay Mr. Cueva the set piece, which is the big box, right? And the thing is, right, set pieces are such a good way, such an effective way

15:53of maintaining, applying and maintaining pressure on the opposition, right? So, especially when you're away from home. So if you look at leads and Burnley, if I can just jump ahead a little bit and of course Arsenal as well, they take their opportunities. And basically, when they kind of just use set pieces as a way to get further up the pitch, maintain pressure on our side of the pitch, even if the goal doesn't stem from there directly, right? When I look at this Chelsea defense, I see when they're facing sustained pressure, there is a tendency to wilt. That's why when I see us go into a low block, I'm always a bit worried. Like I mentioned against Asden Villa, if you're four one up, right? There's a lot of cushion there. And that's also why maybe the five at the back

16:54formation, he kind of cracked it open just to try it out. And I think we might see that in future games where he wants to start off with a bit of control or again, we're seeing out to one lead. You might see that five at the back with the extra center back. But yeah, I otherwise, right? Like in very, very tight games when we're facing a lot of pressure, I don't see us having the mental capacity to actually fight through it defensively. It's great. It's great that they're able to then say, fine, the games aren't over, even though we're down to one, right? Or down one mill against Villa, we'll turn it around. That's great. That's a great mentality to have. But the champions don't concede in the first place. Do you think that's down to experience the fact that we have a young squad? And do you think it's a deeper seeded issue? The experience thing is a great point. But on the flip side, I do feel like now our backline individually have played a lot of

18:02games, right? I mean, even Badi Ashil with all of his injuries and Fufana with all of his injuries, they've still played enough games to know, okay, we're never going to have a 90 minute game where it's all our way in the Premier League. Not at this level. The Premier League is just so much stronger than it was even like five, seven years ago, right? And every year, all of these teams just rack up so much money to invest in their clubs. They're bringing on better and better players every year. So I feel like the gap closes, you know, between a team like Chelsea and a team like, I don't know, leads, right? So for me, they have enough experience to do it. Maybe the experience that's lacking is as a collective, right? And this is something I wanted to ask you because I haven't really been following the behind the scenes. I haven't like, you know, checked our injury table or injury list, for instance. But I'm not convinced by Saur, my mother to Saur. I know he's

19:04worked with Rossignia before, but that our backline in the last few games is basically just being extremely inconsistent to say the least just by name. Yeah, it has, right? It's been inconsistent in many ways. I think there's a lot to really talk about when it comes to the defense, right? You've already pointed out there are a lot of defensive issues in the setup. There's issues when we're defending and transitioning. We can't seem to defend the setpiece to save our lives. Just generally those are issues that we have. And then when we come down to individual quality, right? There's a lot of inconsistencies there. You have Chaloba who, despite all the hate he gets, has been the most consistent defender we have in terms of availability and in terms of like performances, right? He has been, he's had his, he's had his moments. That's my boy.

20:06I knew you'd say that. No, he's, he's had his moments, right? He's been consistent in that if I had to say he has like heel drop, heel drop, like maybe three, seven or eight on 10 performances, then he'll have his one four or five on 10 performance. I think he's been consistent in that. That's still not what we need at this level, but at least he's been consistent in that, right? When you look at the rest of the squad, you Saur had to come in and play versus Rossignol, right? I think he was culpable for one of their early attempts, if I'm not wrong, but he didn't have a bad game considering he's just come into the side. I think with him, it's, it's early days to see how he performs. Chaloba and Saur aside, right? It's the likes of Tosin and Fafana and Badia Shil, who really, really like, you know, get my goat. You think back to the Bernie game, right? He's brought on, he's brought on Tosin for height, he's brought on,

21:08I think at that point there were five defenders on the pitch, and we've gone and conceded because Rossignol, quote, unquote said, somebody missed the man they were supposed to be marking. Somebody was supposed to be marking Fleming and forgot their assignment, and that's why we conceded. You kind of owed that, right? And, and of course, I think, I think the fact that Saur started a head off Tosin and Badia Shil, kind of just tells you all you need to know about their place in the team, right? I don't think that Tosin is doing a lot to inspire confidence within Rizhina. Fafana is like, you know, he manages to be really good when he wants to be, but again, he also is prone to these, these mistakes can manage to look like a giraffe that's just flailing all over the place at times. And of course, like the fact that you got a red card, right? You look at, you look at Bernie and also two games back to back red cards, where they're completely like unavoidable.

22:15I mean, they're completely avoidable. Sorry, these are not red cards that need to happen. And I mean, we're looking at seven red cards in the league now after Neto getting one versus Austin, which by the way, was so freaking stupid, man. And overall, if you can't wear Eskars red card that happened on the touchline, we're at 10 red cards these season. That's ridiculous. And I mean, I think if we manage to keep a clean sheet, avoid a defensive issue and not concede a red card, that's looking like the standards for success right now, right? But it's obviously it's a very bleak thing to say, but I totally agree with you. I find myself obviously the games are very late for me where I am, I find myself the next morning checking first whether we've received a red card or not postmatch. But I hear what you're saying that individually, no, I wouldn't actually say anybody's

23:17done anything to suggest that they are a fixture, you know, going into neck, let's say next season's team where again, we get a blank slate or, you know, a fresh start in the summer. I would argue, even though Chalo, but I totally agree with you, he's the most consistent performer we have. And he should always be in a Premier League squad that's trying to challenge for the title. I think we had this discussion a while ago that perhaps he's not the starting center back in that team, but he's definitely the number three choice, right? He's back up to the primary two, but the unfortunate thing is, and this is the great thing about like watching some highlights back, man, like Fufana sometimes runs around like a headless chicken, it's like he's trying to get carded. And yeah, he is very reckless for a guy who is also so fragile. He pisses me off to

24:18no end every time he takes just like a little bit of an innocuous hit. He's down and we're like, oh, is this it? Is this another 18 months where we can't see Fufana play? Wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. So yeah, I do agree that there is some individual weakness there. But again, there's so many things. There's so many factors that contribute to it. It's change in management, just to talk in my head, right? Even though they look similar, right? In the actions that they do, they're being asked to defend in different ways, maybe under the hood, which we don't see. And I do feel like one of the issues that has not been addressed by Rossignia is actually trying to find tactical balance in the way we play. And it leaves our defense exposed. And no matter if you have, like, you know, Fufana at his best and Chalaba had his best, I mean, Tosun at his best

25:19doesn't should not normally be walking in a Chelsea anyway. But you have our defenders at their best. If they're literally being run at from both flanks with support in the middle in the counter, right? And this is actually something we saw against Villa last night, even though they were quite timid. And to be honest, I think that's why we won is because Villa was surprisingly timid in how they approach their play with us. When they turn the ball over in the midfield, and they moved it forward quickly, suddenly it's a 3v2 and you're wondering like, how did that happen? Well, the reason it happened is because we're building up through the middle predominantly, and we're allowing, you know, Enzo, Palmer, Netto or Garnacho, whoever it is, and one of the fullbacks to all kind of float in the attacking midfield space. And the recovery defenders, as opposed to being the two centerbacks, usually it's Andrei Santos

26:26we didn't play last night and Kaiseido. Now, to get even more attacking, right, because we're so dominant, which, you know, I say that a bit sarcastically because we're clearly being invited on so that teams can counter-attack us. Kaiseido sometimes will push forward or Santos will push forward, and maybe leave a 3 at the back, but this 3 is still very narrow because we have fullbacks who are either floating in attacking midfield or trying to stretch the pitch, make it as wide as possible, like a gukurella, right, or a gusto. So what that means is that the flanks are completely exposed, and that's why I was genuinely shocked at how Aston Villa were not able to make more use of it. And, you know, you give us some credit in that regard that we managed most of their transitions very well. I think Watkins also didn't really have, you know, his most

27:27clinical of days, I think even he would admit that. And then once, you know, once you score the third goal, and you're in control of the game, it's in a different story. But this is what I'm seeing, right, if you're able to win the ball in the middle of the pitch against us, when both fullbacks are committed high up the pitch, we are so exposed down the flanks. It's actually scary to see, and then you're asking a baddie a shield or a tosen to do recovery defending, which they're obviously, as we've seen, they're not very good at. So this is all of these things combined to our defensive record being really, really poor. But I mean, this is actually, again, what I wanted to ask you, where do you draw the line? Like, where do you say, okay, this is actually down to an individual error. I know maybe the manager should be fixing this issue. This is clearly a tactical thing, you know.

28:35That's a good question, man. I think, so this being a tactical issue is something that we talked about even under Maresca. I remember having a similar conversation about how our approach in our setup by Maresca is what's leading us to be so exposed at the back. So I think, you know, you have to, you, you have to, of course, say that yes, the system is doing that. That said, if the system is creating these avenues for exploitation, right, I think then Ruzina has to obviously be aware of that and has to be coaching his players in how to, you know, be avoiding being exploited that way. And I think, you know, you mentioned, Andre Santas had been playing. I think one thing that we saw happening with Andre Santas, and I think Ruzina also called it out. He said, he's played under me at Strasbourg. He knows how I want him to basically sit in like a central center back role at times, right? So he,

29:40he becomes a third center back in those transitions. And I think when he's not on the pitch, Kaisedo doesn't generally do that. He's like, I think Kaisedo sits a little bit ahead of the defenders, rather than leveling up with them. And that might be one of the differences. So I think, yes, tactics are one aspect of it, but I do also attribute a lot of it to individual errors because if you're a quality defender, right, and at the level that she'll see aim to play at, you're going to need people who can defend in the recovery phase, right, in transition. When they have to have, you know, they're facing a runner with the ball, they're getting spread, they have to be aware to make those sort of decisions. And I think you mentioned earlier that from our defenders, there's no one who can really walk into next season. I think there's only one player for me who could, and maybe two, actually, that would be Reese James and maybe Kukurella.

30:45I think Reese James has been phenomenal. And he's, he's an example of, of a play. And I mean, if you think back to when we had Santiago Silva or John Terry, right, the reason it comes out to quality is because those were also players. It's not that under these, under previous managers, we haven't been in positions where we've been exposed on the transition, right, and we've had to be, we've, they've had to recover defensively. I think where individual quality and IQ comes into the, into the picture is when these players know where they need to be. Their positioning is on point. I think so far, everyone in our squad, their, their positioning is not what it should be, right? If they're in the right position, right place, right time, they can anticipate where the balls going. We're avoiding that. So tactics is one aspect for sure. But I think individually, a lot of these players are just not cut out for the way we want to play. So logo, like he said, he's not necessarily a starter in an attacking challenging club. He is our starter, right? Between the rest of them, Fafana, Tosin, Badiya Shil, and Ajampong to an extent, there's no real

31:53like steady pairing happening, right? And Sari's come in. He's got one game. So it's, it's a little bit tricky to say that, you know, it's just down to tactics in my opinion. I think there have been things that have been working in the tactics. There have been things that haven't been working defensively. It's not been working attacking. I think you called it out that, you know, there has been a need for the second winger. I felt like versus Arsenal. There was a lot of time where we just didn't have any option to pass to on the left when we could have exploited the left flank. Our left that is, there was nobody to pass to because he the way he set up, he had it on the right, Enzo Palmer floating behind, behind Jopero, right? You didn't have somebody sitting there like a left winger. And yesterday, again, it was, it was Garnacho who was really stretching the play. He was basically just hugging the touch line. And I think he had a really good game. So I think having two

32:56wingers is something that he needs to be, he needs to find a balance. And I think it's because he's trying to play Palmer. He's trying to exploit, exploit Palmer's, you know, his creativity in the center. He has Enzo who's also like really good playing, you know, bringing the ball forward. So he doesn't have, he's not finding a system where he can incorporate two wingers. But I think we need that, right? I'm not sure I fully agree. Because again, it depends on your opponent, right? Yesterday we saw how effective you can be. If you tend to just focus on playing in two out of three areas of the pitch. But yes, you will have games, for instance, against Arsenal where maybe he should have adapted his system. So I hate to give this answer like, you know, it depends. But it really does, you know, against the quality of the opposition you're playing against. My thing is

34:02trying to get the best players you have all on the pitch at the same time is a pretty difficult thing to do, right? Because everybody has their pluses and minuses. And I wonder how much of his system is impacted by the availability of his fullbacks. Going back to what you pointed out earlier that obviously Reese James and Kukura love walk into the team next year. Now I obviously agree with that. I was mainly talking about centerbacks and like the eight to 12 centerbacks that we have on the club or on loan or other places. For me, nobody's cutting the mustard really if we want to challenge for a title next year. But when it comes to fullbacks, I would say we have really, really good options if they're used correctly. And again, if they're used correctly, then you don't feel the lack of width. So Hato, I really, really like Hato. He's 19 years old.

35:07He's got a bit of everything. And now it's just a question of getting the game time so he can improve in all aspects. But one thing you can already kind of tell he's not going to be good at doing is staying wide and hitting the byline and getting a good cross in. The way he profiles, he profiles more as like an inverted fullback that either stays along the backline, which we saw a little bit more in the second half against Villa or somebody who inverts into midfield, because he has very good balance and awareness of the players around him. So he can at least hold the ball under pressure in central midfield and then progress it. And he's he's rapid. So his underlapping runs actually looked really, really threatening even though Garnacho didn't tend to use them. So this is the thing, right? Like I don't think he was employed in the right way against Arsenal. On the flip side, he was employed in the right way against Villa. Similarly, if you

36:12look at Gusto, I can't watch another game of Gusto inverting into any central area. It's just so it's an experiment that we've seen over and over and over again. And I feel like we're doing it because we don't have another option, you know, for somebody else to kind of float into the middle of the pitch. Gusto profiles as a flying right winger or right wing back, you know, he needs to be touching the white of the line and just stretching the pitch as much as possible. Get him as far away from the ball as possible and just use his pace and movement. He's a very, very intelligent off the ball mover. He actually gets himself into great positions, but his technical ability lets him down. So that's a lot of detail all of which to say that look, at fullback, we are actually, I think we are okay as long as, as long as, you know, everybody's used to their strengths. I

37:20think Kukurela and Reese James are quite well-rounded. They can both invert, they can both play on the wing. It's totally fine. But when you have Hato and Gusto, that's when you have to adjust the style of play, right? So that's why I say, you know, in response to your question, how much is he impacted by that? Because his fullbacks are very, very important in the system. He wants them to do very specific things and, you know, by specific, I mean, he expects of them sometimes to even roam from their positions and pick up central areas. But if you're asking Gusto to do that, it's not going to be very effective. I've been getting very frustrated with Gusto recently, and he'll have like one good game in a span of four or five. I don't know. Am I losing my shit a bit too much here? No, dude, you're not the only one. I think Gusto's been frustrating a lot of people. It doesn't help that, you know, I don't know if it's a consequence of playing in this

38:21manner where he's inverting a lot, but when he finds himself in those crossing positions, his like, his crossing itself seems to have, you know, fallen off a cliff, the quality with which he was spinging balls when he first came versus how, you know, his crosses are recently seems to have really, you know, dropped off quite a bit. So that doesn't really, really help much. But I mean, I take your point about the user for the way he's using his full backs. I think there has been an overall improvement in the way we're moving the ball up the field. It seems to be getting from one end quicker. I saw you even said that, you know, Jorgensen looked more assured on the ball last night and his passing and distribution was better. I think there were some good link-ups. I think Garnacho had a good game. Jal Pedro has just been on something else. I think he's reached, he's tallied with what Drogba did in his first season. I think I read that somewhere. So it's

39:28looking really good for him. But I mean, yeah, what's your take on that before we sort of move forward? Well, let me ask you, when you picture Jorgensen in goal and you picture Sanchez in goal, right? Which one do you think is less likely to make a mistake right now? I can't say for sure either of them. Honestly, that might sound like a bit of a cop out, but I can't back either of them to say they're not going to make a mistake, right? To be honest, I was really surprised to see Jorgensen in the squad yesterday. I wasn't sure that he was available. And then I figured that, you know, you have Rexam at the weekend. It's the FA Cup. Why would you disrupt? Every manager sort of follows that, right? Like they're starting keeper, is there a lead keeper, and they have a cup keeper, right? So if anything, I would have expected Jorgensen to play versus Rexam. I think that, you know, the goal we conceded early seemed a little bit soft. I

40:31don't know if he could have done anything about it. And then there were a couple of moments where he did have the ball. His distribution was better, like you said, but I feel like also there were a lot of nervous moments with him, like when he invited pressure from, I think it was Tammy Abraham towards the end of the game where he tried to pick up the ball and Tammy tried to kick it and, you know, cut his, cut his hand. I think that was just a little bit unnecessary because the commentator also said it, right? You've seen your direct competition, creating situations and creating, putting their team under pressure. Why would you do the same thing? You know, and it's just because of that fact that I can't really say for sure that either of them are the right keeper for us in the long run. You know, I think Sanchez, like I said, he can be Prime Boofon or Saito Bob depending on which day of the week it is, right? And that's really not reassuring. But I feel like recently

41:33his prime games, you know, where he's playing really well have been more than the mistakes. So for that, maybe he just edges it out for me because of the reasons he buys and just availability buys. Yeah, that's my take on it. What about you? Were you impressed with Jogun? I mean, I mean, it's a fair point, right? If we're talking about title challenging next season, which again, might be a bit premature, but what are we in this for if we're not trying to win the prime, right? So I tend to agree with you that, yeah, you were probably not winning the Premier League with either of these goalkeepers. But one thing Rossignia will have to take note of going forward is no matter who he plays in goal, they're going to get pressed because both have basically shown that, okay, under that kind of pressure, they actually can't, they don't seem to,

42:39you know, they don't necessarily seem to find their way out of it, you know, all the time. Which is fair enough, right? Like, I mean, it happens to defenders, it happens to midfielders when they're being pressed as well. But when a goalkeeper is doing it as much closer to their goal, that's point number one. But for me, like, just going by eye test, I haven't actually, like, looked at the stats or any data for this. I think Jorgensen just seems more composed on the ball, which has its own mental impact on the rest of his defenders, you know? I do feel like when Sanchez receives a back pass, the team is basically just already on edge and maybe they're taking a few steps back when they actually need to be making runs into the pitch or wide, you know, giving him options. They're all kind of just watching to see what he's about to do. With Jorgensen last night, I did, I was, you know, I'm always impressed with his composure.

43:46Sometimes it's to his own detriment because he's too chill. But he's, you know, even when he's being pressed, he does somehow find the correct short pass to play. And that's what this system requires. It's great to occasionally be able to go long to Xiao Pedro, who, by the way, is somehow bringing balls down from the air with his head. He's got like the deftest head control. It's, it's nuts. Like that goal against Newcastle earlier this season was absolutely crazy. But you can only do that so much, right? Before, you know, the odds go against you and he eventually loses out to William Celeba, or a very strong defender, right? And, you know, Neto, Garnacho, if you're only playing one wing out, there's only one side where you can run in behind from a long ball from the goalkeeper. And that's pretty predictable. So most of the time, Rossini will want his goalkeeper to find that short passing option, usually a wall pass, right?

44:51And Jorgensen seems to do it more often than Sanchez. That's why I can, I can, again, see him fitting the system better. Like you say, maybe Rossiniers like, look, he may have a free hit this season, even though he's talking the big, the big game by qualifying for the Champions League. So he may see this as well, like, okay, why rock the goalkeeper when there's so many other things that he needs to change? So yeah, that's why I ask, right? When you picture the two of them in goal, which one impresses you? Or let's say, which one like, you know, pisses you off less? For me, at least, is Jorgensen. And, you know, coming to your second point, right? Which is the balls moving up the field much faster. I'm not sure about that. I think it's very aesthetically pleasing to watch a team try to play very intricately through the middle. And we have players who

45:52can do that. And Lavia coming back, touchwood to some, some fitness will only add to our ability to do that, right? But there were times against Arsenal where we were really trying to slow the game down as much as possible, but it was ending up to be in our detriment. And actually, had we played the ball faster, we would have had much better transitional opportunities. So, I mean, I feel like I'm noting both things, you know, at sometimes he's allowing them to be more direct. And I think that was particularly useful against Villa, especially once we figured out that, okay, they're not actually pressing all the time, they're kind of baiting us sometimes. So against teams who are going to sit in the mid block sometimes. And, you know, they're not going to be as easy to bring onto the ball and play through. Then we start looking for these over the top passes behind the back line. And that's when it gets a little bit more interesting.

46:59So, I don't know, I feel like it's maybe slightly faster overall on average compared to Maresca, but again, it probably depends on the opposition. Yeah, I guess that's a fair point. Versus Arsenal, I do remember they're like, when you talk about the defense, like the way our data set up with your carers playing very close to Chalova and stretching them out, just to create so much width between the centre backs was really, you know, something that was, I think it worked in their effect, but it's I'm glad you both asked the game because I really needed to ask you this, right? Did we should we have had at least one penalty versus Arsenal? I can't remember. Honestly, I don't really pay too much attention to all of these, like, you know, you quote unquote, like, you know, dubious scenarios. Which instances are you referring to?

48:05So, I'm referring to specifically Declan Rice when he was defending the Nier Post. I think he was Otto who he had his hands around and then he moved his hand towards the balls, he came off his elbow and then later on when Saliba again had his arms around Jopadro, Jopadro still managed to get up and jump for the ball and Raya connected with him while punching it out. So, in my book, when you look at those incidents and you look you look back at it, right? I think Declan Rice for Shaw should have been a handball and I think there was a very good case of ball don't lie there because we scored on the next corner right after. So, you remember when we used to play basketball so we'd always say ball don't lie when we was fouls? So, I think that was really cool. But the Saliba on Jopadro and then Raya connecting with him, I'll give Raya the benefit of the doubt because

49:05he's a keeper, he's coming to, you know, claim, coming to punch a ball out. Maybe he's got all his eyes, I mean, all his eyes as if he has more than two. He's got his eyes on the ball. But Saliba handling Jopadro like that, I feel like there was a case for that as well. Well, what do you, what do you make of the officiating you've seen in the last few games? Because really like we never have a game where the referee just as he just goes without any incident. The officiating, I mean, we could do an entire part episode on the officiating in the league and in England in general and I think we still wouldn't get everything we want to say off our chest because it is so bad, right? I know you're mostly just watching Chelsea games. When I do get the opportunity, I watch Arsenal games with Nev and I watch some other games as well. The level of officiating, the consistency is, it's just crap. I mean, you see the exact same

50:08incidents being treated differently across different games, across different teams. And it's really, you know, that's something that really gets my go. So without getting into that, I know you don't like it when I slag off the refs on our socials. So I've tried to not do that. But yeah, like I think versus Arsenal, at least that one should have been a penalty. And I mean, that's the sort of thing, right? Like it's those moments. It's those fine moments. Those are those like that decide how a game is going to go, right? You have those officiating decisions that don't break your way. Like yesterday, Jean-Père was, was it his second goal where Garnatio crossed to him and Mings was, it looked like he was offside. I mean, and then the, in the, in the automated, the computer system, it showed he was onside. But if you looked at it in real time, I thought it was going to be ruled out. But it worked in our favor, right? Similarly, before that, Watkins was ruled offside.

51:10Very fine margins. I mean, it's coming down to those. And then, and then of course, the other aspect that is, again, those moments at the side games are just, are just disciplined, right? Like, there was that, that, that graphic that I shared with you from that guy on Twitter, which basically said, 11v11, shall see how the best team in terms of expected goals scored and expected goals conceded, right? That balance. So it just goes to show like, there are these things that are out of our managers control as well that, you know, can really affect how the results in which way the results fall, right? Whether in your favor or not. Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure, I'm not sure I agree with what you said earlier, which is, you know, those are the kind of moments that define a game. That's only the case in hindsight, right? But during the game, we can do more to affect the game

52:10than, you know, so, I'm sorry, I don't mean that they define the game, but those are the moments that you can look back on and say, well, what if, right? There are, there are a lot of what if moments, of course, I get what you're saying, right? There's a lot that's in your control. But the impact of these few things that are out of your control can also really affect the balance of plays, all I was getting at. Yeah, I mean, everything, everything does, right? I mean, you look at, we were so wasteful when we actually had the ball in Arsenal's half of the pitch that you could wonder, well, what if we weren't so wasteful, right? So my thing is, is like, there were actual points in that game where had we shown a bit more quality and a bit more endeavour, right? And a little bit more now, we could have been more threatening versus Arsenal, right? And

53:13you have to admit, like, we were pretty much non-existent going forward. Even though some of our play looked okay and some of the approach play looked nice, ultimately when we got into their final third, which was very rare, the quality was so poor. And yeah, and like you pointed out, like, I don't really, I used to bat referees all the time, but then I made watching football so unbearable. So now I've just decided that, look, let's just leave the guy alone, he's just trying to get a paycheck himself, let the guy be. And also, yeah, I don't, I don't really want to get like sanctioned by the FA about talking against their referees. So if I speak, I get in trouble, shout out. But you know, this is one other thing I really wanted to ask you, and I mentioned it on X, right? The Arsenal game is a prime example. Palmer is going hot and cold right now, and actually against Villa, I don't think he played particularly well even though he got the goal. At what point do we

54:20kind of reduce our ratings of Palmer and bring him back down to like human level? And then we can kind of say we can admit, okay, Palmer's not having a good game at like 55 minutes in time to make a sub, or maybe he doesn't start a couple of games. You know, when do we start treating him like he's human? So I 100% agree with you, he's not looking his best. Despite that, he still managed to get some key goal involvements since he's been back from this groin injury, which we still don't know if it's fully healed or not, right? But I think any manager, it's going to take someone who's really got balls of steel essentially, someone with like massive co-manage to say, fuck it, I'm going to drop this player regardless of what the result is because our fan base is highly fickle. And I think it's, you know,

55:24we've been spoiled by decades of Roman and success, right? And now this new ownership is trying to also find their way. So I think no manager can have the luxury of saying, yes, you are the best player because it doesn't matter how bad he's looking, there's still a possibility for one moment of brilliance to unlock a game. And I think it's the bet. It's that it's that one moment of brilliance that managers continue to play him for, right? Whether he's not looking the best at 60, 65, you could say, okay, there's 25 minutes left in the game. He's not had the best game. We should remove him. That's probably what fans are also saying at that moment. But if he goes on to have that game changing moment, right? It's justified that you've played him. If you remove him and who you're bringing in for him doesn't have an impact, then you have to deal with fans and the what ifs, why did we remove Bama? Why are you taking off Bama? He's your best player, yada yada, right? So I think it's a very tough

56:28position for a manager to be in. More so when it's a young manager like Ruzina who doesn't have a massive list of qualifications before coming to Chelsea. And I think that's a huge, huge factor that cannot be skipped when it comes to like a player like Palmer. Yeah. Fair enough, right? And I think you mentioned a key point there, which is you basically only take Palmer off when you've got somebody else to bring on. And again, like I've made very clear, I've not been very clued in to the squad side of things in recent, recent weeks. But I have no idea, like, Gittens is injured. We're rotating between having either Garnacho or Neto on the pitch because of the style of play. Palmer and Jean-Pedro are both starting. That really only leaves you

57:28delab to bring on. Am I forgetting somebody? I mean, is Esteval back in the reckoning anytime soon? I think Esteval is training. So Gittens is a long-term injury. He's not going to be a, he's, they're saying could be back under the Mandakshet or would be later. Esteval should be back next week. Neto of course suspended. So it's not that his was a fitness related thing, right? So yeah, I mean, you're left with, if everyone's fit, you have Gittens, Garnacho or Neto, whoever hasn't started. Esteval in the lap, that's basically it. And Mark Yu, who is not really getting a run out under Rosina, I think we might see you over the weekend. I think the direction game is an opportunity for a lot of rotation. And we should see a lot more of the squad being used versus the recent games in the league. But I think my point is that there's actually not much squad left.

58:36Because even Hato is getting a run of games, Kukurela was injured. Gusto and James starting games together. Again, that's, that's not a long-term approach. I can understand him doing it for Aston Villa because it was such a crunch match. But yeah, I mean, that basically leaves no room for rotation because all of these guys are playing together. And then if you look at our, our bench, it's, it's pretty scanned. Yeah, it is. But I still think like you see rotation in that, I think Xiao Pedro, Enzo Fernandez, maybe your Palmer, maybe even a Kaiseido, get some rest there. La Vega gets a run out, you know, starting after a couple of cameos. Santos was arrested, so he definitely starts. You see, maybe Tosin, Badiashiel, Sanchez back in goal. I think that's sort of rotation I'm looking at. The lab's starting up front, I think we already said. But yeah,

59:38your main point was there isn't really somebody to replace Palmer with to bring on to say, this guy can actually affect the player, unless you maybe look at Esteveau when he's fit because he's at such good moments. And there's sort of, you know, building him up to Premier League pace and, you know, just managing expectations with him. So maybe, maybe Esteveau, someone like that. But yeah, I mean, it is, it is what we where we are right now. And I mean, of course, squad building and transfers will be something we discussed. If not on this spot, it will definitely be something that we'll be discussing closer to the window, right? But I mean, at the sake of, you know, not making this a really long episode, we are obviously now, like I said, fifth in the league, table as things stand, we are scheduled to play rexam in the fifth round of the FA Cup. And of course, we have the big pictures versus PSG in the Champions League. So given where we are,

1:00:46how do you think we're going to end the season? What are your expectations for the rest of the season? I'm just going to go ahead and just talk about the next five games until the international break. I can't think past the end of this month. So you'll have to forgive me. But if I do, I think we're not qualifying for Champions League, I might have to retract what I said at the start of the pod. I think I think rexam, it's quite funny because we've broken down what options we have in terms of rotation. I think we might struggle that game because he's got to find a way of managing Esteval's minutes and then squeezing. I would hope he tries to get the lap and you on the same pitch at the same time because I want them both fit and firing for the crunch and essentially for April. I'm not sure how many games we'll have in May, to be honest, but

1:01:50yeah, they both need to be somewhat on form. So you want to get all of these players who haven't had much game time on there. You're looking at Buddy Ashil and Tosin and two strikers who aren't getting much game time. Esteval is coming back into fitness. It doesn't actually sound great and rexam doing pretty well for themselves and we are away from home. So basically, I'm beating around the bush. I actually think we're in for an upset here. I think rexam are going to knock us out. No, that's fine. I mean, I wouldn't expect anything less from you. I actually have been watching the documentary. Welcome to rexam. I don't know if you've heard of it, but it's basically about how Ryan Reynolds and Rob McClendee took over the club. I'm not up to date with it or anything. I've just watched it and I know a little bit more about

1:02:53rexam than I did before that. I think they are building something there and they've really bought rexam up through the leagues in the last few seasons. But I think that for me, when I look at expectations, I think for the FA Cup, we should be... That's our best chance of silverware right now. It's not... By no means is it cut and dry, but I think that is somewhere that there is going to be a push. So I think we will go out wanting to beat rexam. The Champions League fixture, man, it's... So we have PSG away and then following week on Tuesdays. So Wednesdays, PSG away and then Tuesdays, PSG home. And honestly, man, I think if we can get past PSG again, we should be able to get to the semi-finals. Because the next fixture, Liverpool versus Caritas, we play the winner of that. I think that's more manageable than the actual... You know, the quarter-final fixture potential is more manageable

1:03:55than the semi-final. Post that, I don't know. If we make it to the semi-final, it's a Hail Mary, whether we get to the final. But PSG, I mean, that's the big one, because obviously they're... Like, they have something to prove by beating us, right? I think they've applied to the league to get, you know, to the French league to get like, of their fixture moved before the Chelsea fixture, so that they have enough time to prepare. We obviously are playing rexam on a Saturday, PSG on a Wednesday, Newcastle on a Saturday at home and then PSG on the following Tuesdays. I don't think there's any real room for movement for our fixtures, but... I mean, I can't call that PSG fixture. Both legs. I really don't know how it goes. I think, away we obviously try to go, minimize the number of goals we can see. Maybe grab one goal, come back home and try to shut shop there, I think. But, I mean, what are we saying? It's not like Stanford bridges the fortress it used to be, so... I don't know, man. And then, of course, in between you have the Newcastle at home and given the way Newcastle

1:05:03have been their form of late. I mean, yes, they grabbed the winner yesterday, thank God for that. But, I don't know if... I mean, I think they're 12th in the table right now, so we have a better chance of beating them, I think, right? What do you think? I mean, what's your take on PSG? I mean, honestly, me, I haven't actually heard any predictions from you. I think you just you just worried yourself for no reason. So, once you live in this world where we get knocked out in the FA Cup by Rexim, then it's fine, man. Then there's no expectations, you know, then there's no disappointment. So, basically, I think it's going to be a 3-1 PSG in the first leg, and I think it's going to be a 2-1 Chelsea in the second leg. So, we'll go out. What was that? 4-3 on aggregate. And in between, I think we draw against Newcastle. I do think, unfortunately, our defence is really bad

1:06:07and sandwiched. In between these PSG games, there's going to be a lot of minutes managing. Again, shout out to our previous pod, where we're basically not sure who's actually picking the teams. I think we're going to be doing a lot of managing there. So, I don't expect a full-strength Chelsea at home to Newcastle. And, as I mentioned, we can see it very easily. I rate Newcastle's team, at least, on paper. So, they know how to make things very difficult for us. And ever turn away, I'm going to say we sneak a win. That's against my better judgment. And Prashant, you might be a little bit surprised, but it's probably a bit too early to say I'm a change, man. Yeah, no, I don't think I'll let me be able to say that. So, okay, for the sake of this pod, right, I think we beat Rexim. I'm going to be super optimistic and say we drop PSG away,

1:07:12and we beat them one zero at home. So, that's us going through to one on aggregate. And I think we beat Newcastle and Everton. I think I was a bit more conservative with the last Newcastle fixture, and we ended up beating them, right? If I'm not wrong. So, I think we're going to... I think we drew that, too, too, right? Right, you are actually... That was the game I referred to earlier on, where Sanchez goes long-bowl to Pedro, and he somehow brings it down on his head, which is like absolutely nuts. We went down, I'm just looking at the game, I know, but I think we'll do the job versus Newcastle, because they really have nothing to play for in the league. I think they're going to focus maybe a little bit more on the cup and everything. So, yeah, I think that's where we are with predictions. There was one bit of news that came out of nowhere, but we have a

1:08:15new shirt sponsor. That was like the most random thing. Yeah, it was random, and it was pleasantly surprising, because we all lowered our expectations, wouldn't you agree? I think this is great news, even though, again, it's like one of those DMACC things where there's a limited number of games till the end of the season, and then we're back where we started. I don't know, I can't really... I can't get too excited about this. And also, I don't think it looks great on the shirt. It's not very aesthetically pleasing. What do you think? No, it's not at all. I didn't even know that we were working on this whole integration. So, there are apparently IFS that AI are going to be a global sponsor focusing on data-driven decision-making. So, then industrial AI, software company, they use AI to optimize club operations, match day staffing, fan experience, playability,

1:09:17the other. I think they're on as like a principal partner, and they got offered the opportunity to also take on a front of shirt that placement for the rest of the season, right? I don't know, like to me, it's just not smart, because you waited till 28, 29 games into the season or whatever, to actually get somebody on your front of shirt, and that's like 28 games of 28 weeks or whatever of wasted revenue, right? That you could have had. And in the hopes of getting a bigger deal, we have, for the third year running, let... I mean, if you look at the deal evaluations, we've probably read about... A conservative estimate would be about 40 to 50 million over three seasons just go, and I think a rate doesn't make sense, you know, that's my take on it.

1:10:18Dude, I'm pretty sure that's 40 to 50 million per season, right? No, I'm saying... Because... I'm counting that they had something towards the end of the season, whatever it is. I'm just being very conservative and saying, if they would have got, like, say... I mean, being very conservative, 25 million a season, which is obviously really low, but if they were getting 25 million a season, and in each of these seasons, about two-thirds of the season is gone, that's how I'm arriving at 40 to 50 million, right? Yeah, that actually had... That makes sense. And I think if they need to think about it from their, you know, terms, how many youngsters have they passed up on just because they didn't have a front-to-shirt sponsor? I mean, think about the 16-year-olds they could have bought. Yeah, that's one way to look at it. But the other thing is also... I don't think they're

1:11:18clued into market dynamics, right? So a lot of current clubs, shirt sponsors, are not going to be their next season because of the ban on betting companies. So the likes of, like, Villa and I think they have Betano or whatever, and then there's 88 bet on some people that stake on Everton, right? All these guys are suddenly also in the market for a new front-of-shirt sponsor. So what's the appeal to spend a chunk? I mean, shall see, I think, historically, the narrative has been that they're holding out for a value that they deem the club is worth, right? Clearly, nobody thinks... Nobody else thinks the club is worth that. Now in a market where suddenly every other club is there and an Everton will probably accept half of what shall see once, right? What do you do? Like, I don't think they're clued into that. It's not really smart from a business perspective, right? Basic supply and demand. Yeah, the market is spoken. Totally agree with what you're

1:12:19saying. And I think we may see either they would look internally to see what, you know, maybe marketing they can do for one of their own brands under the clear lake, capital ownership, like, you know, in their portfolio of companies, maybe they can kind of use Chelsea's image for that, right? But yeah, I thought that's something they would do this season, considering where we are. But I guess they really were holding out for evaluation, which in hindsight is very stupid. And it all looks a lot worse when you think about the fact that we won the club World Cup. Seems like a very long time ago now, but we won the club World Cup. We qualified for the Champions League, we won the Conference League, and that's the season where you didn't have a front-of-shirt sponsor

1:13:19until March or February, I guess. So it doesn't make any sense. We've probably covered this in a lot of depth already. And again, this runs out until the end of the season when we're back to square one. You would hope that the additional funds that we receive from IFS.AI you know, line the pockets for the transfer kitty in the summer. Yeah, the reported deal value is only 15 million. So I guess that's what, 10 youngsters maybe? Dude, we're out here paying like 30 mil per youngster, per kid. So maybe they can arrange a time share with like Endrick, you know. I think Real Madrid would actually not mind that, but yeah, I don't know the way we also spend

1:14:28money is it's a whole different podcast, right? Which we again probably discussed in a lot of depth. I don't know, I feel like maybe somebody more positive might say, well, at least they're securing some value at the end of the season, but it just raises more questions for me. Yeah, dude, the number of things that we could do other episodes on, it just keeps increasing, right? Like we've already said we could have done one on the business and on the transfers and on the officiating. It's never ending. I don't know, it would be this, I guess I did actually, it would be this fun doing a podcast. So yeah, but I think with that, we're at the end of this one. If you obviously if you like what you've heard, if you'd like to share this with another Chelsea fan, definitely do so. There's a five star rating on Spotify, follow us on X to keep in touch with Sharon's retrospective takes on all our games and my real-time reactions.

1:15:32And hopefully we may have something brewing with an in-person recording sometime soon. So keep it out for that. But yeah, that's it for me, Sharon, any parting words? No, this is usually the part where I give my inspirational exit quote. So yeah, I know I look forward to, yeah, like you mentioned, hopefully recording in person together. It's been a while since we met. And I do hope I'm wrong, you know, just want to remind people that yeah, I do support the team. I watch every game, even though sometimes it's a replay. I enjoy the wins. But yeah, I think there's a lot of, a lot of areas where we can improve. And look, if Racinear's ceiling is similar to that of Maresca's, I think there's actually

1:16:34still a lot to look forward to. And like you let do, like you mentioned, right, just as you started to wrap up, whatever it is, it's at least it's interesting, you know, like we're still here, we still got stuff to talk about, right? So it's not the end of the world. Yeah, exactly, man. So with that, on that slightly positive note, we'll call it on this one, and see you soon, hopefully. All right, till the next one.