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0:00Music Good afternoon and welcome to the Narrow Path Radio broadcast. My name is Steve Greg and we're live for an hour. We have a live program so that you can call in during the broadcast itself and be a part of the show. If you have questions you'd like to ask about the Bible or the Christian faith here on the air, we'll discuss them. If you have a different viewpoint from the host, disagree and want to say so and say

1:02why? Feel free to give me a call. We'd love to hear you talk about that too. The number to call is 844-484-5737. That number again, we have two lines open right now. So if you call now you should be able to get through 844-484-5737. I need to announce that this weekend I'm going to be in the Sacramento area. I'll be speaking in a number of places. I've been saying that I'm going to speak six times in three days. That's not, I'm looking at it closer, only five times, only five times in three days. Friday night, Saturday morning. And Saturday evening will all be in Roosevelt at the West Side Community Church. And then Saturday, I'm seeing Sunday morning and Sunday evening, after noon more like,

2:04with a two hour gap between them. I'll be speaking in two different private residences. Since citrus heights and ones in Lincoln, I've spoken about these homes before, in fact, a number of times. And obviously since they're private homes, we don't list the address on the website, but you can call and get the information. And see if there's still room for you because it's kind of RSVP because it is in private homes. You know, they can accommodate a lot of people, but they do have their limits. So that's this weekend in the Sacramento area. If you live up there and want to join us for any of our meetings, go to our website, thenarrowpath.com. And there you can look at our tab that says announcements. That tells where I'm speaking, various places. And you'll find all the places I just mentioned, as well as the fact that a couple weeks later, I'll be in Michigan, speaking at quite a lot of places, a lot of different towns in

3:08Michigan. If you're in Michigan and interested in those, you may want to check out that and see just where I'll be. I might just be near you at some point. All right. Let's go to the phones right now and we'll talk to Yosey and Knoxville Tennessee. Hi, Yosey. Good to hear from you again. Hey, Steve. Thank you. Good to hear from you. So I have a question on what's been confusing to me on the timeline of when did the whole indwelling Holy Spirit that belongs in each believer aim or stars that well in them. And I want to see if you see it the same way as I do. So I see it as the indwelling Holy Spirit came just after the resurrection. For example, like in the Rote Ames or John 20 where he breathed on his disciples and then distinct from that would be the power and the gift of the Holy Spirit would come later

4:12and kind of caused you see it kind of the same way as me. I do. I do. I think that in John chapter 20, when Jesus breathed on the 12th, actually there weren't all 12 of them there. Thomas was not there that night. And of course Judas was gone. So there were 10 of them. When he breathed on them and said, receive the Holy Spirit, this would be for Pentecost by about seven weeks. And yet it would appear that by breathing on them, he was implying that he's imparting to them the Holy Spirit at that moment. Of course, these were the apostles. They were the leaders. And you know, it's not as if everyone who had followed him at this moment had the Holy Spirit given to them, but the apostles did kind of ahead of the crowd. And then on Pentecost, about seven weeks later, they apparently, and everybody else who is a believer in the upper room, 120 people, they were filled with the Holy Spirit. And I do, in my own mind, recognize the distinction between just receiving the Spirit and dwelling

5:18on the one hand and being filled with the power of the Holy Spirit. In fact, the same apostles that he breathed on the night of his resurrection said, receive the Spirit, you know, 50 days later, when he, or 40 days later, excuse me, 40 days later, when he was about to ascend, he said, you know, you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. So they hadn't yet had the power of the Spirit given to them as would be the case at Pentecost along with the rest of the church, but they did have at least the Spirit given to them earlier than the others. The power of the Spirit was apparently something that was treated differently. We did the density for me. Thank you. All right. That's all. Okay. Thank you very much for your call. Good talking to you. We're going to talk next to Brian from Ontario, California. Brian, welcome to the narrow path. Thanks for calling. Hi. Steve. Good afternoon.

6:18Hey, Steve. Good question. I called last week and we spoke about some Matthew talking about. Called No Man, Rabbi. Called No Man, Your Father. And then your answer was great. You established it. Yeah. You can call your biological dad, dad or father, but you know, you were not really supposed to call people that. And so my next, my follow up question to that is, okay. So I go to a church right and then the pastor there, the way they teach, okay, in this organization, they teach that you are to refer to the pastor as either pastor or pastor. And it's last name, for example, like Johnson, Pastor Johnson or pastor, but you were not to call him brother, even though we are all brethren as the professor says, they don't want to calling them brother or bro. They feel like that's not like giving respect to the office. And even like the first lady, you know, of the church, they call them, they call them

7:20the first lady, the wife of the pastor. They want you to refer to her as a sister and then her last name, like let's say sister Johnson, for example. Why not, why not your majesty? That's right. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I mean, I want to hear your thoughts on that. Well, what are your thoughts on that? I'll take my answer off you. All right. All right. Thank you. Well, of course, the pastor being required to be called pastor, you know, I suppose that can just be done out of tradition or custom, just like Catholics call their priest father. But and by the way, father is more of a, perhaps a term of respect than pastor. But not very much. I mean, in Protestant churches, the pastor is kind of seen as the leader and has a stature. The early church didn't have a guy as the pastor. They had elders and these elders were just brothers. Even the apostles were just brothers and Jesus don't, don't call anyone a teacher.

8:23Don't be called rabbi. You're all brothers, he said. Now that, I mean, that statement of Jesus, which of course, isn't Matthew 23 versus 8 through 11. It seems like it's directly against what these, your pastors are doing. They're saying, don't call me brother. Call me pastor. Well, I mean, Jesus said, no, don't call anyone rabbi. Call him brother, your brothers. Now it's interesting that they would have their wives be called sisters, which is appropriate. But why would they, but when they call all women's sister, but why would they give the pastors some kind of special honorary title? This is something that's no doubt church tradition, but it's a church tradition. It's contrary to what Jesus said. I'm not opposed to saying that this man is a pastor of this church, or that this man is an elder in the church, or even that this man is a teacher in the church or a prophet in the church. If that's true, then there's nothing wrong with me saying that, but to address him as pastor

9:30or reverend or apostle or whatever, strikes me as, you know, well, I mean, if I did so, I might do so with a reasonably pure heart and not be exalting him. But if he requires me to do it, I don't see how that could in any way be understood to be with a pure heart. If he says, listen, call me brother, that's not showing enough reverence to me. That's not showing enough dignity to me. You need to call me by a more dignified title. Well, this is exactly what Jesus forbade. I mean, it's that very attitude that the Pharisees had. They loved me call, rabbi rabbi in the marketplace and he says, don't you, and we call that. So this is a very strange thing. And I think it comes from the assumption that being a leader in the church is somehow an exalted position. No, it's an exalted work. It's not a position. It's a work. The Bible says that those who labor among you and are over you in the faith, you should

10:32respect them for their works sake. Okay, so they've got to work. You know, in Paul says, he that wants to, the office of an overseer, who wants to be an overseer, says he desires a good work. This is a work. This is not a privileged position. This is a calling that some people have. Everybody has some calling. And they call it a pastor. It doesn't mean you're better than somebody who's called to be a janitor. Frankly, I mean, all are equal before God. So I don't know. This is definitely a violation of what Jesus said. Now again, I'm not, I'm not trying to critical of people who, you know, out of habit call their pastor, pastor Jones or pastor so and so, because they've always done that over life. I mean, they want to show respect. I mean, if it's, if they're showing respect that way, there's no problem. If the pastor says you need to show me this kind of respect, that's the problem. And that's exactly what is contrary to the teaching of Jesus and of the spirit of Jesus.

11:36This is the thing. Jesus said, you call me Lord and you call me mastering and you're right. I am. I am your Lord and master, but if I, your master, have washed your feet, then I want you to wash each other's feet. And I was, I'm a servant here. You, you, you may call me Lord and master and that's not inaccurate. I am, but I'm not, I'm not demanding dignity in that role here. I'm, I'm lowering myself, taken on the form of a servant. The spirit of Christ is though he existed in the form of God. He didn't consider equality with God. I think to be grasped, he emptied himself and took on the form of a servant, even to the point of death on the cross. So the spirit of Christ is the opposite of trying to preserve his dignity. And when a pastor or a church leader is making an issue of that, then, then I don't know, they need to be confronted about that. And if they, if they don't see why that's wrong, I don't know, I probably look for another church. I don't want to be in a church where people don't know what the spirit of Christ is.

12:37I've mentioned before that there used to be another radio talk show host like myself who, who, who took Bible questions on the air. And I don't want people to get the impression that is Hank Hanagraph. It's not. I'm not talking about Hank Hanagraph. There's another one. Hank is probably the best known for this. This other man, he only did the show for a while. This is back in the 70s. I need any, I don't think he's on the air for the last few decades. But somebody called him and called him Brother John. And he kind of rebuked and said, what's with this Marmy familiarity? Brother John, I've earned eight degrees. I deserve to be called doctor so and so. And when I heard that, I thought, man, that's the last time I listened to this guy. I mean, how, how could you be more directly contrary to what Jesus taught about this subject? Now these pastors are pretty close. Maybe, maybe they're the same, have the same attitude he had, but I don't know.

13:37That's, it concerns me. It concerns me if it passes. You need to call me pastor. I mean, think about what they're thinking. Either they're proud and want you to look up to them. Or maybe they're not. Maybe they see you, you know, you and them are equal. But they, they want to maintain control, which is easier to control if the congregation looks up to them as superiors. And therefore calling somebody by a title, it suggests they're superiority, apparently. I mean, really, if you call them slave, I mean, Jesus, who ever is chief of winging, must be the slave of all. If you call them slave, I don't know if they'd object to that or not. It seems like they might because that's not any resulted sounding title. So I don't, I don't want to go off on a day more. I just, that's one of my pet peeges about people who are in ministry and they see it as the opposite of what it is. They see it as a privileged role, an exalted role.

14:37They don't see it as a merely a service provided by slave to the church. And therefore the churches are in the condition they are because of that attitude, which arose centuries ago, by the way. Timothy and Everett Washington. Hello. Hello. Hi. Can you hear me? Can you hear me? Can you hear me? Go ahead. You're on the air. I'm not. The book of Enoch last week, somebody I was listening to from Tuesday and something asked from questions about, is it dangerous to read or not? And just to kind of summarize what your response that I disagree with is, well, actually, I agree that it's a toll fraud. But then you said that maybe you kind of left the door open. Maybe it's okay to read if, you know, it's not the Bible. And in first Timothy, one, three through four, it says, I went into Macedonia that I might

15:41have charged some that they teach no other doctrine. Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions rather than godly edifying which is in faith so do. So I feel strongly that it gives heed to questions, to speculations such as, you know, you're saying, well, maybe kind of conclusory, well, Jude quotes this and there's nowhere in the Bible that says Jude quotes it. There's lots of different ways that you could come to something that similar or the same information like the Holy Spirit. Well, he said he's quoting Jude. He said he's quoting Enoch's. I mean, that's right. He doesn't say he's quoting the book of Enoch. He doesn't say he's quoting Enoch's. He says Enoch said things. Right. Okay, I hear you, right? Okay. So what you're saying is Enoch might have given the prophecy that Jude is referring to and it's a legitimate prophecy, but it just happened to also be incorporated in the book of Enoch

16:44later on. So it's a coincidence that Enoch actually made the prophecy and also is put in the book of Enoch. Okay, I'm not going to dispute with you about that. I will say this though, giving heed to myths and giving heed to fables means believing them. Nothing heed doesn't mean letting them go into your eyeball and enter your brain and like any other thing. Actually, I believe we can read the book of Mormon. I believe we could read the Quran. In fact, many Christian and Paul just have I've read parts of it myself. It's a lot of reading, so I haven't had time to read the whole thing, but I'm not, I don't think it's wrong to read those, but if you give heed to it, that's a different thing. Giving heed means you're believing it. Now I've never recommended that anyone believe the book of Enoch. What I've said is reading it doesn't seem to be problematic if you know that it's not the Bible. Just like if you know that the book of Mormon is not the Word of God, it doesn't hurt you to read it unless it does. Now if your mind is weak, if you don't have discernment, if you're prone to be deceived

17:51by it, well then stay away from it. Don't go, don't enter into temptation to deception. When I read from the book of Mormon, which I know to be false, I don't even have the slightest temptation to believe it. So I mean, maybe some people are so gullible that if they read anything that claims to be a thought to it, they just buy it. I would say to people like that, don't read anything but the Bible. However, it'd be a strange thing if we made a rule for all Christians that they can't read anything except the Bible. Can't read the illiterate in the Odyssey. It can't read e-suff's fables. It can't even read Pilgrim's progress because it's not the Bible. But I'm not, that's not where I'm at. I've got no problem reading those kinds of things. Now if you do, then you probably shouldn't read them. When the Bible says, don't give heed to those things, it means don't believe them.

18:54That's giving heed to it. He's not saying, if you're in the presence of someone who's saying something that isn't the Bible, hold your ears with both hands tight because you don't want to hear those words. That's not what Paul has minor or anyone else in the Bible. Paul quoted from Greek poets and Greek philosophers in his preaching. But quotes are in our Bible. He quoted him in 1 Corinthians 15. He quoted them in the book of Acts chapter 17. He quoted them in Titus chapter 1. So I mean, those weren't the Bible. They were pagan. They were pagan poets. But he found something in them with quoting. So I mean, I'm not trying to say that I'm right and you're wrong, but I mean, you can disagree with me if you want to. It doesn't really alarm me at all. But just to clarify, I don't think the verse you used makes the point that you're trying to make. I think that if you read the book of Enoch or you read the book of Jubilee's or you read the book of, you know, first and second Macabees, you know, these are not Bible, but I don't

20:00think it's hurt people to read them unless they think it is the Bible. That's the problem. If people think it's the Word of God and it isn't, then they're being deceived. And I would say if a person is prone to be deceived and they're not very strong in their faith and not very intelligent, not very discerning, then probably you ought to limit your literature to those things that don't have any possibly deceiving you. Thanks for your call. All right. Let's talk next to Abby from Oak Grove, California. Hi, Abby. Welcome. Hi, Steve. Hi. So my question is, or what are your thoughts on like medical medical malpractice and asking them to remedy the medical issues that came from the malpractice? Man, necessarily or more like not asking for money, a more so fixing the medical issue that has been fixed. A problem, yeah. Yeah. Well, okay. I'm not against, I'm not against holding doctors accountable for mistakes they've made,

21:06especially since they get paid a lot for it and because they, the one reason they get paid so much is their paying malpractice insurance companies. So because they do sometimes get sued. Now I've never sued anybody, even the guy who, through his accidental or through his car was driving, accidentally killed my wife back in 1980. I wouldn't sue because I just thought, well, he doesn't have the money. Now I've never been in a position to sue a corporation. In 1 Corinthians 6, of course, we're told not to take each other to court and that Christians should settle their differences through arbitration with a Christian tribunal. But of course, a medical practice is a not necessarily Christian, not brothers, it's not that we're penalizing them per se. I mean, we're holding them accountable to be sure. I think that, you know, if a medical doctor is doing irresponsible stuff and people are

22:11getting hurt and even if it's you, they got hurt, you can be concerned that he, that he learned, not do that to people and hold them accountable. So now, like I said, you're not trying to get rich off them, which is good. But if you're trying to get into repair of the problem, I'm not sure I'd go the same person if he showed incompetence, but it might have him pay to have some competent doctor fix it for you. But, yeah, I don't think you're wrong headed to hold a doctor responsible if they were plainly, you know, in the wrong. And you've suffered at their hands. I don't think they necessarily did it on purpose, but because of them, that I guess not taking the necessary precautions. A lot of things happened at the end of the day. I have kidney loss and I'm suffering with that besides other things, but that's the

23:14only thing that I guess could be fixed. And I just, I've been churling with that. I'm not going to want the money that's as like that. Right. You're not trying to get rich off. Yeah. I think, first of all, you paid him for what he did, right? And then again, the wrong thing. Okay, well, you paid for a service you didn't receive. You paid to have something fixed and it didn't get fixed. So to require them to fix it without further payment is, I mean, that's perfectly just, I think. Okay. Thank you so much. All right. Sorry about your medical issue there. Sounds good. Nightmare. All right. Thank you. Come less. Come less, you. All right. Let's see here. We're looking at a hard break coming up here. I don't know if I should take on one of the other calls before the break. Perhaps we will not. We have another half hour coming up so everybody who's waiting online, we will get to your

24:15call in the second half hour. And right now I'm looking at one open line. So if you want to get on in the second half hour of the program, you can call now at this number, eight, four, four, four, eight, four, fifty-seven, thirty-seven. And we'll, like I said, we have another half hour coming up, but there's a break impending. At this time, I want to just remind you that the narrow path, which has been on the air daily for 29 years, is listener supported. We have no commercial breaks. We don't sell anything. You can't buy anything from me. I have books that you can get an Amazon, but you can't buy them from me. I won't sell them because we're not a business. And we are simply a ministry and we give out the Word of God freely we've received from Christ and freely we wish to give. But we do have to pay for radio time. You know, the radio stations are businesses that need to pay their bills and their employees

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26:17You can also donate if you want from our website. But our website actually is just loaded with resources that are all free. As I say, we don't sell anything but we should go a lot there for free. Like 1500 lectures. My lectures, verse by verse, through the Bible. My lectures on hundreds of topics as well. I've heard there's about 1500 lectures there. They're all free. There's other stuff there too. You should check it out. It's thennarrowpath.com. You don't have to donate. Just take what you want. That's at the website and we're glad if you haven't. You can also donate if you want. Thennarrowpath.com. I'll be back in 30 seconds and we have another half hour together. Don't go away. Small is the gate and narrow is the path that leads to life. We're proud to welcome you to the narrow path with Steve Greg. Steve has nothing to tell you today that everything to give you. When today's radio show is over, we invite you to visit thenarrowpath.com. Where you'll find top, political audio teachings, blog articles, verse by verse teachings, and the archives of all the radio shows.

27:19Studies, learn and enjoy. We thank you for supporting the Lifters supported narrow path with Steve Greg. Welcome back to the narrow path with radio broadcast. My name is Steve Greg and we're live for another half hour. Taking your calls if you have questions about the Bible or the Christian faith or a difference of opinion from the host, we welcome you always to call. The number is 844-484-5737. And our next caller today is Mike from San Diego, California. I'm Mike. Welcome to the narrow path. Oh, okay. I just wanted to agree with you actually and I just had a comment about celebration where you know, they say you know, once you're saved, you should see a change.

28:23And I was completely excited about going to church. My sister bugged me and I finally took the plunge and went. But the one thing that I struggled with, and it's just, I'll try to make it church as I'll talk all day, but they go, you know, you'll be a new person in Christ and I go, man, I was looking forward to it. I go, gosh, this is great. And what was funny is that I didn't realize how quickly that was happening. I go, you know, my dad bought me a Bible. I was going to church. You know, I didn't see the little stuff. I probably had a drinking problem. I bought the store, the large name menu. That was just me. And I started going to church. I go, man, I'm still doing this stuff, swearing drinking. But it took me maybe a couple, three months and that kind of went away. But I looked back and I go, I go, you know, almost right away, the fact that I was attending the church, I'd darkened the door of the church. I was going to church. That was something. I mean, I didn't see them. I was thinking that they go, the new person in Christ, I was doing something big. I mean, the big stuff kind of did happen after a fashion. But I didn't see, you know, I'd have a Bible note. That was me. I'm still here in the church.

29:24So I just thought it was, it was kind of neat. When I hear people's testimonies, you guys touch them at that thing, lastly, I love hearing people's testimony. And I mean, I think it's a common thing. I know this. I know it is like people dotting their salvation. But I totally get it because I mean, here I was going to church and I was becoming the new person in Christ right away and didn't realize that I go, you know, I'm saying this thing. You got them. Yeah, I know very well what it's like. I've seen many, many lives change like that. I myself changed tremendously, especially when I got baptized in the spirit. I was born again as a child. I mean, I came to Christ as a child and baptized for my 12th. And I never walked away from Christ. But I did get filled with the spirit when I was 16. That, you know, like you said, changes happen without my necessarily even, you know, consciously trying to make anything change. It just, God changes you. And that's why it's so important for people to make sure that they really are converted when they, when they believe they have been saved because conversion will make changes

30:26in your life. Now, if you think it's going to make you perfect overnight, you're going to have to be, you're going to have to realize that that's not necessarily the case. In fact, it isn't the case. It may change many things dramatically overnight. And other things that for some people change quickly may take a longer time, but, but you will change. Your orientation will be toward God and the things of God instead toward your flesh and the things of the world. That's one thing that is, you know, part of convert, being converted. And then, of course, the habits you do, probably over the rest of your life that you'll probably begin becoming sensitized to habits that need to change and that God will change as you allow them to do it. Well, thank you, brother, for your testimony there. I agree with you. Thank you, my friends. I appreciate it, bro. God bless. Okay, we'll talk to Troy and Hampton, Virginia. Hi, Troy. Welcome. I see. My question is about whether there's a balance that needs to be made for churches that are

31:34welcoming to centers and tax collectors while also being a holy congregation of believers and reason I asked is that my church called itself a church for the un-a-church. You want me to hear, be welcome, even if you don't believe. You want me to bring your gay friends, your non-believers, assuming the strategy is that, like, once they get in, we can work on it. And I just love to hear your comments. Well, you know, there's two different ways that the church is viewed by different people. One is it's kind of a religious meeting that's a big tent that welcomes everybody in. And especially eager for non-safe people to come in so they can be evangelized. The other is the biblical view of the church. That is, it's the body of Christ. The church has made up of people who have been born again, their disciples of Jesus, they gather in order to be edified, to be instructed in the way of life, to exercise their gifts

32:39and ministry to each other. It's a Christian society. It's not for the unbeliever. In the New Testament, the church was comprised only of people who had surrendered to Christ and been baptized. And where now his baptism was the entry into the church. And if they weren't baptized, they weren't in the church. And if they weren't believers, they weren't baptized. So in other words, the church in the Bible is the body of Christ, which means every member of it is part of Christ. The spirit of Christ is in every member of his body. And every member of his body obeys the head. That's the point of being a body. The head gives you instructions and you carry them out. And that you become the vehicle for the operation of what the head wants to do on earth. That's what a body is. And so the church in the Bible is not a big tent religious meeting.

33:40That, a big tent religious meeting like that is more like an evangelization effort. It's like an outward commission, a crusade, perhaps. Now, can a church do both? Well, I think they can, but one of the problems we have is the biblical idea of being a church is kind of unfamiliar to a lot of people because of this cultural idea. The church is just the building on the corner, who holds meetings on Sunday and bring all your friends, bring all your unsafe friends, maybe they'll get saved there and stuff like that. Well, that's not what a church meeting is, but that's what we think of church as in many cases. The church should define itself as a body of believers, who gather specifically for the edification of one another and the building up in the instruction and the mutual ministry one to another. That's what the church is. Now, a church that is that can also have meetings scheduled for evangelism for outreach.

34:43I mean, supposing a church owns a building, for example, most of them probably do. Well, one could have their church, let's say Sunday morning or any other time during the week, they could have their principal church gathering at a given time and have another time schedule a meeting where bring your unsafe friends, we're going to evangelize. This is not going to be a church meeting. This is going to be a evangelistic meeting. There is a difference. In the early church, they did their evangelism outside of the church. And when people got converted, they baptized them and brought them inside the church. That is normative because if we don't do it that way, then the church just becomes nothing in particular. Just as I said, a religious meeting. In other words, church then becomes defined by the building and the meeting. Whereas the real church is defined by the people who are Christ's body, who are doing the will of God, and meeting together to worship Christ from a pure heart and things like that.

35:44So, I mean, if the church is simply an organization that owns a building and has scheduled meetings, then that's not really what the church is in the Bible. The church is a family. It's a society of obedient disciples is what the church is in the Bible. Now, I would prefer, if we're going to continue to have evangelistic outreach in the churches, to not call those meetings church because that gets confusing then. If you call a meeting that's got half unbelievers in it, a church meeting. That's stressing me very confusing. I would know what the church really is if that's what you're calling it. So, I'm not against, now by the way, if an unbeliever is more likely to come to a meeting on a Sunday morning than some other time during the week, maybe the church should have its church meetings on Saturday night or Sunday night or midweek or something like that and have this Sunday meeting just be called outreach.

36:46This is our outreach meeting. There's nothing in the Bible that says church has to be on Sunday morning or any other given time. So, if the unbelievers never going to come to the building unless it's a Sunday morning, then I guess a church could decide whether they want to redefine their Sunday morning. But it should never be thought that unrepentant sinners who have not embraced Christ or not used disciples somehow belong to the church, they don't. They're outsiders. They can come in by repentance and salvation, but they don't belong to the church. And so a church says, well, we're a big, we're an affirming church for the unchurched. No, there's not a church for the unchurched because if unchurched means people who aren't infallible the body of Christ, well, they don't belong in the church. The church is for believers. Now, by the way, there are believers who don't regularly go to a church meeting,

37:47not because they wouldn't, but because they haven't found one that really works for their family or whatever, or suitable. But the point I'm making is if the unchurched means people who've been staying home all the time avoiding the church because they have no affinity with it and they have no interest in salvation or following Jesus, well, those, there shouldn't be a church for those people because then the word church becomes highly compromised and no one knows what it means. I think we should get back to the time where the church means the body of Christ, the fellowship of the saints and church things are done there. That is, the gifts of the spirit, the feeding, the teaching to observe all things, the Jesus commanded, these things are supposed to be done in making disciples. And I believe that it is supposed to be reserved for some other time. So, anyway, I mean, if the church is saying, well, our main church meeting is sunny morning and please bring as many unbelievers as you can, well, then when you're going to have a real

38:48church meeting, if you're sunny morning, is it time when you're reaching out to the unbelievers, when are the believers going to be fed? When are the believers going to get together and do what the body of Christ is supposed to do? This is something that, I don't know, how many pastors have talked this through because we have so many traditions we follow, we don't even ask whether we're doing what the Bible teaches to do. Anyway, those are my thoughts on that. I appreciate you calling. All right, we're going to talk next to, excuse me, the longest. It's going to be Lorraine from Fairfield, California. A lot of California colors today. Hi, Lorraine, welcome. Hello. Thank you for your ministry against the... I'm assembling believers were Jewish when Jesus was very young. He was a Jew. And my question is about John and Jesus' time in the wilderness. Why did John in his youth go there and did it have any reflection on Jesus

39:5140 days there? I started a study in March today and we briefly discussed John's time in the wilderness. Supposedly, he was out there for 30 years. Well, you're saying why did they do that? Are you saying this is somehow connected to you, mentioning their Jewish? Are you saying that it seems strange that they as Jews would do that? Or is it strange that they didn't do that? No, but I mean Christianity was a... So I'm assuming John was raised Jewish too? Of course, yeah, his parents were priest. His father was a priest and his mother was descendant from Aaron also. So he was born in a priestly family. And under the law, he would have served as a priest also when he would turn age 30. But he was called to a prophetic ministry. And at age 30, he began to preach more like a prophet than a priest. They were plenty of priests to go around. They had

40:52played a time to rotate them in the temple and stuff and what they did. But yeah, John was born of a priestly family and would be a priest. Ezekiel was that way too. Ezekiel was born a priest, but at age 30, he was called to be a prophet and he happened to be a babbling where there was no temple to serve at. So he didn't have any priestly duties to do there. But yes, occasionally, somebody a Jew would have a special calling, a prophetic calling or something like that. Jesus, of course, being the Messiah, was kind of that way too. He was called a special prophetic messianic calling. So both of them had reason to separate themselves at least some of the time from ordinary society to cultivate their relationship with God. In John's case, John lived in the wilderness in order to illustrate something about his ministry. A lot of prophets in the Old Testament had to do things, symbolic things that were kind of a picture of their message. Hosea had to marry a woman who's unfaithful and then take her back to illustrate God's taking back Israel after

41:57she was unfaithful. Jeremiah put an actual ox yolk over his neck to say that, you know, if Judah was going to go into Babylon and bear the yolk of bondage there, there's a lot of these prophets had to do unusual things. He secluded a lot of them that illustrate their message. In John the Baptist, he was fulfilling Isaiah chapter 40, which says, the voice of one crying in the wilderness, preparing the way of the Lord. So he went out in the wilderness as a voice and was crying out in the wilderness to call attention to the fulfillment of that prophecy in Isaiah 40. We know that that was central to it because that prophecy is quoted in all four of the gospels about John the Baptist. So, anyway, Jesus didn't spend much time in the wilderness. He did fast for 40 days before he began his public ministry, which illustrates the need to be in the presence of God and be filled with

43:04his presence and so forth before you go out and in society to try to reach people for God. Anyway, I don't, you know, the Bible doesn't say, doesn't tell us all the reasons they did that. But there were Jews, I mean Elijah did the same thing. Elijah lived in the wilderness. There were lots of prophets, Neil Testament, who lived kind of separate lives from ordinary society because society was corrupt. And John the Baptist and Jesus did that too. John won Jesus. All right, thank you. All right, thanks for coloring. Let's talk next to Neon from Paramount, California. Neon, welcome. Hi Steve. Yes, I am into numbers and I know the Bible is into numbers. I know the number 40 now is important. So my question to you is in the book of numbers, for you, why is the most important verse you see in the book of numbers?

44:06Well, I've never been one to pick out individual verses from books and say, this is the most important verse in this book. I've known people who do that. I know there's a school that teaches through the Bible and the students are encouraged to find a key verse in every book they study. First of all, I don't know that any of these books were written by authors who planned on there being a key verse of their book. I mean, it's nice if you could find a verse that can summarize this, everything in the book. Sometimes you can in a way, but I don't think that's the way the Bible is written. I don't think the Bible is written. First of all, the Bible wasn't even divided into verses. So that was done later. So it wasn't as if, you know, the writers thought, oh, I hope people memorize this verse and recognize this really important one. I believe that there, I believe there's a multitude of very important verses. Numbers, of course, may have a larger number of verses that aren't very important to us because it's got chapter after chapter, which have merely the census numbers. You know, this tribe

45:10had this many, this tribe had that many, this people, you know, over 20 and under 60 or whatever, and so you've got a lot of data there that isn't particularly spiritual in nature, but you do have interesting important stories there too. I think the stories in chapters 11 and 12 are pretty important. I wouldn't pick one verse out of them, but I do think those are pretty important. Also chapters 13 and 14, of course, when Israel turns back from the land and has to wander for 40 years in wilderness, that's pretty important. There's just, there's very many important parts, and then there's, you know, interesting other kinds of things too, like I think chapter 5 and 6 if I'm not mistaken, are the ones that have the Nazarete vow and that kind of stuff, the leper, procedures and so forth. Anyway, I, no, I don't know one verse in any book that I say,

46:16oh, that's the most important verse in the book. The truth is, I've gotten a lot out of many of the verses in every book, so to qualify one is, you know, this is the best, it's something I would not be in a position to do. There's too many of there that would be ranking up there for me. I appreciate your call though. Let's see, a Roderick from Everett Washington. Welcome to the narrow path. Hi Steve, thank you for taking my call. I'm the guy who called last time about the Whistling Song, and thank you for waking me up every day. I got that from my alarm clock. So, do you have a question? Yeah. My question is, I don't know if you know about Amir's Tarr Fari from the Behold Israel. So I think they, he has a million followers, and then my question is about, he's still insisting on that the Israel of today is the chosen people.

47:19What's your view on that? Well, he certainly not alone. That's fine. That's fine. Yeah, I don't know him or his ministry, but he certainly is not alone in his assertion that the nation of Israel today is somehow God's chosen people. What do I say about it? Well, I say I can't find that in the Bible. Israel was chosen to be sure, but sometimes when we talk about something being chosen, we think of that as strictly they were chosen for salvation or chosen for special privileges, special to be above other people, you know, in stature and earthly wealth and so forth, or in heaven. When God chose people, it means He chose them to do something. There's something He had for them to do. It's just like when we, the word elect and choose are the same words in the Greek and the Hebrew as each other. He elect. When we elect a president, we're not just, we're not

48:24just affirming him, we're asking him to do a job. If he's not going to do the job, we'd rather put somebody else in there. Israel was chosen for a job. When Abraham was first told about this, in Genesis 12, 1 through 3, there were privileges of it. He was going to be a great man, and God would have his back if people cursed him, God would curse them, and if people blessed him, God would bless them. Those are good things, but his purpose was to become the father of many nations, and to bring forth a seed through whom all the families of the earth would be blessed. Now, according to Galatians, chapter 3, that seed was Christ. It is through Christ that all the nations are blessed through the Gospel. Now therefore, Abraham was chosen for that purpose to bring forth the Messiah to the world, and his offspring eventually did. While they had not yet done this,

49:29this was still their mission. This is what they were chosen for. But when Jesus came, they fulfilled their mission. At least part of it, the important part was that they brought them to the side of the world. The second thing they were supposed to do was embrace him, to accept him. Now they didn't do that for most parts. Some of them did. The ones who did, are what we call the faithful remnant to Israel. They became the followers of Jesus, and later they were called the church in the Bible. But they still are, they chose them because they are now continuing to bring the blessing of Christ to the nations. All the families of the earth would be blessed in Christ, and the church is the agency through which this would be done. It cannot be done through Israel. It cannot be done through Israel, because Israel does not receive Christ. Only those in Christ can carry out this mission. So, you know, some Jews are Christians, and along with us Gentiles,

50:29who are also in Christ, they make up the church, the body of Christ, and they're doing the work of Christ, bringing the blessing of the gospel to all nations. The Jews who are not Christians, they're not bringing the gospel to anyone. They don't even have any received at themselves. They're just like any other nation that rejects Christ. Now the Bible indicates that there's the same penalties for those who reject Christ, whether they're Jew or Gentile, and the same blessings for those received Christ, whether they're Jew or Gentile. Paul goes into that in Romans 2 verses 5 through 10, where he makes it very clear that, you know, the same behavior will receive the same judgment to the Jew, and also to the Gentile. He says, because God doesn't have any partiality, and so God doesn't have partiality toward one race, so for another. He has partiality toward Jesus, and those who are in Him. So, you know, when you say, well, do you believe that the nation of Israel in the Middle East today, that's the chosen people? A chosen for what? You know, God, Jesus is the chosen one,

51:37and they haven't chosen Him. They haven't accepted Him. So what possible service would God have for them if it doesn't involve them being saved in part of the church? Now, every Jew on the planet, including those in Israel, can become Christians. They can follow Christ. That's what they should have done back 2,000 years ago. That's what relatively few Jews have done throughout the past 2,000 years. Fortunately, their numbers have added up to the probably hundreds of thousands, if not more, but the majority of Jews simply don't receive Christ, and that would describe the ones primarily who inhabit the Middle Eastern country called Israel. And, you know, if a person doesn't receive Christ, they don't have any status as chosen. What would be chosen for? God has one mission on earth, and that is to redeem all people in Christ, and the Jews who don't believe in Christ are not involved in that mission, and there's no plan B mission for them. There's no additional kind of

52:38mission that God's concerned about. So, you know, it has nothing to do with their race really. I mean, this is not something, I'm not saying something bad about Jews. The same could be said about the Irish or the Chinese or the Nigerians. If they don't receive Christ, they've got no role in God's purpose in the earth, and that includes Jews who don't receive Christ. They're not any different. And that's what Jesus said. That's what Paul said. That's what the whole Bible teaches. Anyway, I hope that's understandable. All right, we're almost out of time. Maybe I can just take a little bit of time with C.J. and Plymouth and Michigan. Really about a minute. Go ahead. Yeah, I was wondering. There's so many pastors that teach that Lucifer was the most beautiful angel, the leader who worshiped heaven, had all these privileges, and he ended up being Satan, but I can't find him the Bible. So I can't even. Yeah, Lucifer, first of all, if you have a King James

53:40version or a new King James version, you'll find the name Lucifer. In one passage, Isaiah 1412, if you don't have those versions, you probably won't find the word Lucifer at all, because Lucifer is not actually a name. Lucifer is more like a title. It means shining one morning star. It has those kinds of meanings. Jesus is called that too, by the way, in Revelation 22, not because it's a name. It's not. It's a title. He is the King. He's the glorious one. He's the illustrious one. Well, the King of Babylon was called by that title in Isaiah chapter 14. He is not identified with the devil anywhere. The word Lucifer is not found anywhere else in the Bible. Besides Isaiah 1412, and then it's only found in a few translations like the King James and the New King James, which failed to translate it. Modern translators have done what should have been done in the first place. I'm out of time. Sorry to say. You're listening to the narrow path, our website, the narrow path.com. Thanks for joining us.