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enhanced tools
that you know
more grown-up children uh... have have uh... you know some skill at
so i think it's important that we uh... you know define our terms here and
look at what is actually being said and
and uh... advocated for
uh... cloudy do you think i'll adjust the point out that it the incentive is
towards
less information in this country and i would cite the policies around broadband
specifically i think it was this week or last couple weeks that
uh... the fcc rescinded their gigabit
uh... speed
uh... goals or that was from a previous administration what's up with that
because it it
unfairly um... you know marginalized slower products
and i think that trend overall
it is
all about
a keeping the populace as idiotic and stupid as possible and be making as
much money
uh... splitting up and dividing
broadband into tiny or in tiny or in tiny or slices and the only time you ever
see congress passed anything
is for bumpkins out in rule god knows where
they never want to do anything for broadband in the city or in in populous
areas
because those are already captive to the the cable providers
and entrenched telecommunications
business plans that just want to keep charging people god knows what for like
crappy dsl
and and and don't even get me started on why we don't want an educated populous
but i i think that
lot of all is that might be or uh... an aspirational thing for our country or
we might
have a sort of
historical
mythology around
education as a priority
the de facto situation is that's not any interest of business and our
uh...
or form of prosperity here straight up
like why would you want intelligent voters
not in this country
definitely don't know what i'm not you can
they can you
part them with their money easier you make them vote against their interest
easier it's all
well documented so anyway that that's my point with that
yes sir it might be uh...
sweet direction for another country but that ain't this country people
go ahead and i'll move on
yeah well i i think i think we could honestly spend hours on this particular
issue
and i don't really think anybody
including us fully understands the import of any of these policies that are being
made
i think i was totally right to compare this to something like a public good
right like broad banner public education
because that's
how south korea seems to be looking at the use of a i
whereas in the united states in the new york city in particular we are essentially
asking the question
whether our children are ready for a i are we ready for this can our kids handle
the use of a i systems can our teachers
use and regulate the use of a i systems
whereas on the other hand south korea approaching a i as if it is some kind of
public good like broad band
is asking a different question they're asking whether
their country
in their country rather can anybody
afford to be left without a i access
so it really is in an access
issued here
and the policies in new york could unintentionally
be creating more of a digital divide
you know we have the access problem in new york city as well still between
people who have access to the internet people who don't have access to the
internet people who rely
on link n.y.c. kiosk to have access to the internet and do their homework and
and many places is a real thing can i just ask you what could the policies in
south korea unintentionally result in
well i think that could only potentially result in a lot of things
it goes back again i think to what kyle is talking about what you're talking
about if we
over rely on a i systems to do everything for us we essentially dumb ourselves
out
we become meet puppets
for large language miles that they themselves
you have have their own by us their own racism their own tendencies their own
fallacies inherent to them i think it can be incredibly dangerous to over
rely on a i systems in fact
i see all the time
in in my law practice i feel most of the time these days that
responses i get from counter parties are all generated by large language
models at least in the first instance people are over relying on these systems
it's so obvious
and nobody
is is is having any kind of original thoughts anymore
and i think that we're all dulling our intellectual instincts down i think that
we also have to think about
who benefits in the systems i'm i'm not criticizing this policy in in
New York city simply because i'm not a big fan of this mayor
i think it frankly is probably a good policy overall but it's something that i
think none none of us including the mayor himself
have any idea about the long-term implications of this
i i think it's this is a changing system in fair and changing technology nobody
knows long-term implications because this has never happened before well exactly
but what we do know is and we have to think about is who benefits from this
and and this is why i think the more time is probably a good thing
overall because the the business model of these a i platforms these days is very
different from the business models that have been dangerous to society in the
past they are not the model of surveillance capitalism whereby
our data is collected and then monetize and then sold to advertisers
the model for a i businesses these days is a reliance model
it's almost like an analogy you can make to a drug dealer
where the first couple of hits are free and then you have to pay for the rest of
them they want us to over rely on a i systems to do everything they want
artificial intelligence to be part of everything we do to consult them when
we're changing a light bulb to consult them when when we're mowing the lawns the
consult a i systems when we're doing our taxes etc so that we rely on them like
we rely on electricity and we pay them over time like we pay the electric
company that's the business model is to get us hooked
and i think the south korean model benefits those platforms directly by giving
access to an entire country to get hooked on this without having a proper
educational support in place i would just add that you absolutely i i i have
the same concerns that basically they could all your conversations could get
immediate don't do not fool yourself for a second that all your conversations could be
completely locked away as they rebrand or re re skin whatever tool you're using
as something that you must subscribe to and all of a sudden you don't have any of that if it's
not offline already and you're using something that is essentially in the cloud you're already
at their mercy they just haven't pulled the rug out from under you the other thing i want to
point is a fantastic example of the kind of atrophy that you're talking about is mapping and GPS
fantastic phenomenal tool but overlcience on it has made people unaware of what street
they're on or where they are or how to get somewhere without it and i think that's a terrible
side effect of what is a fantastic tool for traffic updates or navigating in unfamiliar areas
or making car traffic car travel more efficient for a business and other things but people not
knowing how to get places without it is a terrible terrible side effect that i think that most
people might not realize has happened to them i can't finally come to save my life i don't know
what's wrong with me that rapid did you have something odd that you you would test about it during
a conversation which is that this is the first time a policy like this is being tried in this country
so uh... yeah we don't know for sure how it's going to shake out but it's definitely going to be
interesting to keep an eye on and see how this goes my alice i'm going to be the final word in this
because we have a couple other stories yeah sure i mean i think what our listeners should take away
from this in my opinion is that you know there are a lot of so-called experts about AI out there
that they claim to know the harms and facts of these particular systems but we have to always
keep in mind that this technology is so new so changing so evolving and so innovative and so
ways and also so helpful to society that nobody is really an expert in any of this nobody knows
the long-term implications of it there are no great great no great bords at all when it comes to
AI it's not like cyber security where people have been practicing in this field for 30 years and
quite literally do have long great beards when you're talking to them there's plenty of them these
these crazy hacker conferences that we all go to but um... you know here i think we have to be very
careful of anybody who claims to have that kind of long-term wisdom because it just does not exist
okay moving on what do you guys think of the flock camera ban on highways yeah so uh... apparently
local law enforcement agencies are are are revoking all previously issued approvals for license plate
readers in them various rights of ways uh... there's a recent exponential increase in deployments
of law enforcement cameras as well as concerning reports of misuse data privacy concerns and
surveillance schemes that merit immediate action to preserve citizens sovereignty and quality of
life you guys think this is a good move
yes
uh... the absolutely i
i'm glad that
flock cameras are rolling back
yeah i was enjoying seeing what people were starting to plan for helene
the
uh...
and i think that people are
attempting to be
their attempting to arrange people on charges of
like criminal justice for
interfering with flat cameras and the grand juries are refusing to indict them
because
no one seems to mind
damage to flat cameras to the point where you
like people are alibi in folk
no like people are getting fifteen alibi is for destroying flat cameras
now they don't have to with if if if they're banned they don't have to destroy them
exactly right and
so can we can we agree as local policy this is a good move
hands down
i think it's a very good move
everybody
yeah one hundred percent
well then move to florida because that's where it's happening it's not happening
here
i want to have here but for some reason uh... florida has come out against
rock cameras i would i did not expect to see this the governor is actually
signing off on this
wow so if you can get uh... right wing uh... republican state uh... to ban
something that we all hate um... boy it must really be awful
you know it's um... and and and how do we get that here in the work
it is interesting to see you know this this being one of those issues that sort
of crosses uh...
party lines and uh... right or left wing or what have you
because uh... basically everyone
i think uh... good a good amount of people on that on various sides of the issue
are coming to the realization that
this is not a great idea it's not working it's being widely abused
um... there's still like uh... you know
police officers talking their ex-girlfriends with these things
um...
and it's uh...
it's also just been
spotlighted so much in not just programs like ours but like the mainstream media
has picked up on this and is really gotten the word out
and that i think helped a lot of people start thinking more critically about
these things whoever is here is typing please stop
i think or need
i think one thing that is going on in new york that we could take uh... uh...
uh... as an example is the uh...
the way that people um...
destroy their license plates or otherwise obscure
the printed side
and i think like
unless these things actually get addressed
you will have like mass actions and i think it would it going a step further
don't destroy the good side flip it over turn upside down spray it mat black and
just have it on your car but
have everyone just with black license plates that are basically a legible
stuff like that
i think
as a uh... uh... an action on a particular day
or uh...
as
away of
dissenting
from places that will not
listen to people
are the right move and it makes it unenforceable like the whole idea of a
license plate is this
common understanding that
well we should have these but if people stop agreeing
to that sort of social contract because they know they'll be abused if they do
present their license plate
then how do you enforce that you're gonna arrest everybody on the road
because i see plenty of messed up license plates they're all over
it's a common thing in the city
and in the wider state and there are just so many more people
in a big city like new york and in a populous
uh... part of the country
that
how do you even police that
like you know the social contract breaks
i think people need to stop breaking their license plate but just
just resisted completely and those are the types of things that will maybe
get some attention
but without any kind of like
rational kind of
hearing and and social buy-in why would we participate in the plates in general
on the subject of police
a large number of people who do that are police
oh i know yeah and i and uh...
uh... a lot of the reasoning behind it is not so much uh... anti a flock
sentiment but anti
paying any kind of toll sentiment
uh... so that's why you see a lot of uh... damaged plates around people do
yeah or like put in your trunk
you know it was a great and it's in your car yeah the leaves they got the
leaves you know or they basically just grind off the reflective paint
all that it's all it's so pervasive and incredibly hard to police because
you get a certain threshold of people doing it it's just like what are you
going to do and what really is the penalty
if your license plate isn't visible like okay are you your licenses suspended
so you're going to suspend ten thousand people licenses
i mean i i don't even know what the penalty is but i i suspect it's not a
felony
i mean are they gonna make it a felony to not have a license plate
what they don't know that's a good question what is the cause like if
if the the cost is less
because it's a minor infraction and everyone does it
how do you pick who to everyone doesn't do it i would beg the different
a lot of the damage plates in new york uh... and i don't think they're all
like backing in the trailers and stuff
yes uh... who's got their hand up at all it's good
yeah i i mean i think
what carl you're you're driving out here in the reasoning behind why a lot of
people do this is because
not only do they want to get out of paying various tolls and things that are
that are billed by
license plate readers etc
but i think it's fundamentally
about not wanting to be tracked
and with these flock cameras i think the primary criticism here is that
what we are essentially doing is turning driving or the road network into this
massive warrantless national tracking grid
that is searchable by police
and i think that bring us
right back down
to terms that we can all easily understand
uh... it is that this is a metadata issue
you we leave metadata in so many places all around our lives
our digital lives
we left metadata when we connected into signal tonight to to access the show
anybody who's downloading the show will leave a bit of metadata
on the twenty six hundred
website if they're downloading it through the paper we don't keep that data
we do not keep logs
just a little
you you shouldn't i'm glad you clarified that
but apple will certainly have met a data about anybody who downloads this show
as uh... some kind of
you know as a podcast after the lot of cost here on wba i which everybody should
support by the way
so the the issue
here is that
you're turning every single journey in your car a physical thing that you're
doing in your life if you're going to work if you're going to the doctors
office if you're heading to a protest if you're heading to
and abortion
clinic if you're going to a religious service if you're going to the supermarket
right every single one of those
events in your life is now tracked in time stamp
that you crossed this invisible line at this particular date and time
and then you crossed this other invisible line at this particular date and time
and you're leaving all this metadata around
from your physical life
there's something inherently wrong and disquieting about that i think to
ordinary citizens you don't have to be a hacker or technologists to realize
that that's wrong
and i'd i love that we realize that florida
is right
leading to charge in this particular legislation well now technically
it's the life of your car
uh... because uh... they don't know who is driving the car at that point that's
true that's why you get a red light camera or i've been with pleasure to have
read my camera tickets
uh... it's uh... it you don't get points because they can prove it was
actually you driving the car but you do get the ticket
so that's that's a big thing there and also you know
how else would you
run something like easy pass which has been around for decades
uh... and uh... you have to collect all somehow
you know unless we're advocating not having to all which i don't know how
that would work
uh... but uh... people
like to have the the convenience of driving through and not having to stop and
give some guy money
uh... and uh... and and and so things down so it's uh...
it's a question of convenience for those but what what i like to say is uh... you
know when you just take a trip to the supermarket
it's a good chance of lock cameras gonna grab you license plate there
and those something more about
at least your car and probably you go ahead rob
yeah i mean to go back to what i was saying about the social contract of a
license plate
like i'm i'm i'm all for people who are doing
unsafe things behind the wheel of a car being
found and punished for it
and when we
you know collectively came up with the social contract of the license plate
generations before any of our times
uh... it was understood that you know if somebody sees your car doing something
it shouldn't
they can uh... alert the authorities or whatever
that was long before we were
faced with this uh... scenario of that data being met a data that's locked and
kept without any without any oversight without anyone's approval
and without
basic security as the issue with this data being abused for stalkers
uh... has already shown us
the thing is already being misused it's already insecure
and uh... you know
it's uh... it's provably just a bad idea to have it uh... being run away
it's run
and i think that's also kind of relates back to
the a i policy
in the new york public schools
because everybody's it who's like let's roll this out as much as we possibly can
and then to find out that it was not
necessarily the panacea that people seem to think it was going to be
and so i do applaud
when people can see past the salesmanship
and take a moment to think about the potential repercussions
of a massive system rollout might be
to take a moment and think about it before then having to
hastily try to refold the map as it were
and you know ring doorbells uh... you know recording everything going on
front of your door
sounds like a good idea first but then when you realize the cops are tapping
into it and sparring on everybody
not so to get idea
out
in in terms of other states adopting this as well i think it actually could be
somewhat simplistic as well because it it this comes down to a states rights
issue
this is not a federal issue here this state owns
or controls
the highway right of way
and any of these automated license plate reader systems that are placed on
highways
that have to be given permits so any governor could then direct the state
transportation agency whether it's the d.o.t. inflars department transportation or
i i i
sometimes same thing here in new york
it's only really no with the state agency is but whatever it is the governor
could
direct that
there be some kind of study into the permits that have been issue already
and could revoke permits for any kind of automated license plate reader or
give some kind of ban or moratorium
or rather institute some kind of ban or moratorium
on the particular permits being issued
so uh... i i see this is
politically really simple for any other state to accomplish similarly to have
florida stumps
watch read that we look at florida as an example of something good by this
particular case i think that is no denying it
yet it not
yet exactly our right every now and then i just think it as uh...
you both pointed out uh... robin
angula all of us are realizing how maybe
maybe this thing that we might have grisled that it all out there there they
don't want their license plate seems that maybe it's more recognition of the
operating conditions and we ever thought i i didn't realize i might be coming
to that
at the end of a conversation here
but it truly is i mean if the car isn't using telemetry or your phone
something uh... uh... fixed on the side of the road
i mean
there really
it isn't an equated thing as well pointed out of like yesterday here and it
honestly is kind of quaint when you really add up the amount of systems
trying to you
we're gonna have to leave it there which we have more time we have so many other
stories to talk about as well but uh... the hour goes by so quickly we're so much
to say
uh... rob i believe you have an announcement this week for people listening
yes indeed this friday twenty six hundred meetings are happening all over
the world
go to twenty six hundred dot com slash meetings to find one near you
or start one near you
here in new york at the city we're building fifty third electing ten
this Friday evening where it has been since nineteen eighty seven so definitely
uh... fun to stop by and uh... say hi to all the hackers
but uh... we are at a time
now
you can write to us
oth at twenty six hundred dot com
no overtime this week
but next week hopefully and next week of course on wba i at seven p m
and stay tuned to wba i and give to wba i dot org
good night everyone
all you've been on the past
and it's going on the real
and you can't come back
can't come back again
and you start freaking down
in the old rain
or you can't hold a fake strain
or a fake strain
and your lover is going to wait
don't make you feel sad
and you're going on a journey we're into the land
and you start freaking down
because you're on the street
and you're jumping on
you're just jumping on the bad string
jumping on the bad string
you've got to go on the land
stuck in no man land
and nobody on your way back
and nobody going to land you was helping in
and you start freaking down
and you go to the sound
what you hear that the fast train
and you keep on moving
onto the sound of the wind
or keep down in your
do you really know how you feel
then you start freaking down
or to the pain
keep on moving on the bad string
move on the bad string
well we're over the land
next thing you're out of your mind
and you're out of your step
and you go with the key quell
or there's no way to go
in the street and scroll
let's keep on moving
on the bad string
move on the bad string
you've got to go on the land
stuck in no man land
and nobody on your way back
and nobody going to land you were helping in
and you were out of your
do you really know how you feel
then you go with the fast train
or you go with the way back
and you go with the key quell
or there's no way to go
in the street and scroll
you go with the fast train
or the down the bad string
or the worst down the poor lane
or the down the bad string
or the down the bad string
or the down the bad string
or the down the bad string
or the down the bad string
or the down the bad string
or the down the bad string
somebody let it happen
I can't understand
going through this reason
or the bad
or the down the bad string
or the down the bad string
or the down the bad string
going nowhere
oooh
sorry
What do I have to do?
The food I love for you.
What do I have to do?
The food I love for you.
I give you my love, I give you the best.
Anything long to believe you know I give you the right.
I'm coming off.
I have to do.
The food I love for you.
What do I have to do?
The food I love for you.
Oh, what do I have to do?
The food I love for you.
I give you my love, I give you the best.
Come on away if you know I give you the right.
Now come and watch.
The food I have to do.
The food I love for you.
What do I have to say?
The make it come back and stay.
What do I have to say?
The make it come back and stay.
You give me nothing for heart and Ukraine.
You keep it me in awe.
I love you, try it.
I'm coming off.
The food I have to do.
The food I love for you.
What do I have to say?
The make it come back and stay.
Oh, what do I have to say?
The make it come back and stay.
I want you to know I know.
I want to say something.
I want to say something.
I want to say something.
I love you.
That's it.
That's it.
That's it.
That's it.
That's it.
That's it.
That's it.
That's it.
You close your eyes.
This is your baby.
That's it.
That's it.
That's it.
That's it.
That's the first time.
Yeah!
Yeah!
Yeah!
Yeah!
Hey.
Hey.
Yeah!
Yeah!
Yeah!
Yeah!
Yeah!
Yeah!
Yeah!
Yeah!
Yeah!
The End
The End
The stars are so bright,
and with the right,
and with the right,
always open the heart,
always open the heart.
And with the right,
always open the heart.
The End
The End
The End
The End
The End
The End
The End
The End
The End
The End
The End
The End
The End
The End
The End
When the light is shining,
The End
And I am certainly happy.
The world is beautiful.
If a chamber of happiness is red,
the world is beautiful.
If happiness is red, the world is beautiful.
Always lost in and always straight.
So is right.
So is right.
And where the joy is born, when I come home.
Oh, life is so beautiful.
I have right.
I have right.
You have to have your beauty.
Understand.
You see, you are not here.
Let me live the old man.
Always together, and always together.
So is right.
My heart.
So is the world, when the happiness is red,
the world is beautiful.
And I am certainly happy.
The world is beautiful.
If a chamber of happiness is red,
the world is beautiful.
Then I speak, and I mention.
I am certainly happy.
I have right.
I am certainly happy.
Nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing.
Without love, you ain't nothing without love.
I am certainly happy.
I am certainly happy.
I am certainly happy.
I am certainly happy.
I am certainly happy.
I am certainly happy.
The cremation of the Flag was not closed yet,
as sat doğer of the Land of the Sea tells comment.
It is Everything,
then.
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
