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0:00indicate very clearly this community have existed long past the destruction of 1695. And despite that destruction of the main settlement in 1695, people have never stopped drawing inspiration from Palmaris, especially after Brazil abolished slavery in 1888. What would you say with the most important moments in the legacy of Palmaris, Maria Fernanda? If you want to think historically a little bit since the late 19th century the discovery and the publication of the documents that were relating to Palmaris, brought a lot of scholarly and a lot of public attention to the site and to its inhabitants. And this really, really helped to better understand the history of enslavement and of the lives of those who fought for their freedom for so long. So a few moments that are really important, you want to think of how the history of Palmaris inspired movements against Brazilian dictatorships since the mid 1960s. And I do think that it's no coincidence that in 1986,

1:01that was one year after Brazil returned to civilian rule, that Palmaris and its surrounding areas were declared as national cultural heritage and that Zumbi was proclaimed the national hero. Another important moment for me happened in 2007 when the state turned a portion of the site into a touristic park, which is now visited by thousands of people, especially during November 20th, which is the National Black Consciousness Day that is commemorating Zumbi's death. And what I saw there and what would you would see there if you were in there in that day, it's just hundreds of people that are climbing up the mountain, they're gathering in the park that was constructed at the top, they're celebrating, they're dancing, they're doing capoeira, almost aching a sort of pilgrimage to honor Palmarinos and their lives and their deaths. And by 2017 was another important moment when I had already concluded my field research there, but the area was proclaimed as a cultural heritage site by Mercosul,

2:07which is this out the American trade block. And at that time, some expressed their interest to nominate Palmaris as part of the inscriptions in the UNESCO World Heritage List. And yet the descendants of Palmaris and other similar settlements in Brazil still face a lot of legal challenges when it comes to securing legal titles to their lands. Tell us what the main challenges are, Maria Fernanda. What I found through my research when I was conducting field work there was that there is this paradox with Banmaris in the sense that despite of the importance and the visibility that it has, contemporary of our Brazilians and some of them are actually Maroon descendants themselves, have a very precarious and difficult existence. And what my research found was, though by law, this Maroon descendants are entitled to own the lands they occupy. In reality, securing these land titles is extremely difficult and extremely time consuming.

3:07So just to give you a few ideas, for instance, in 2018, there were roughly 3,300 communities that were officially certified as contemporary Maroon descendants in Brazil. And from those, almost 2,000 had initiated petitions for land titles. In 2018, the state of Alagoas, where the Palmaris heritage site is located, only one of those communities had received this official deed. So it's problematic not just because they're complicated and long administrative procedures. That's not just the problem. Instead in Brazil, there's a very strong political opposition from powerful downowners, from agribusiness, from developers to this land entitlement process. And very sadly, in the past few years, it's been worse. And there's been a constant stream of legal attempts to restrict the rights of Maroon descendants. And if other rural poor communities as well, to own their lands.

4:08So it looks like Palmaris is set to remain a beacon of hope for many Brazilians in marginalized communities fighting for a better life. But what does Palmaris mean to you personally? Let's start with you, José. For me, Palmaris represent that sense of freedom. It represents this constant way of searching and looking to gain our freedom, from the point of view of the African, the Caribbean slave. But today in our society too, there are still very many other things that are connected with freedom. The right for education, the right for job, the right for justice. So for me, all of these elements are elements that that Palmaris represent. Petri Palmaris? Well, for me, Palmaris is an inspiration since I was a youngster, because it represented the possibility of a society of people living together

5:14in some kind of cooperation, not only war, in some kind of affection, and not only hate. And this is very important in general, but especially today, considering the state of the world with wars, social and racial violence, in the world, but also in Brazil. So for me, it's inspiring to consider that Palmaris may be inspiring us to a different way of living. Aren't you Maria Fernanda? Oh, for me, Palmaris, the story and the histories and the people are just fascinating, and not just because of its past. I think it's because of what has become today in Brazil. So for me, coming from Colombia, that's a country that shares a lot of Brazil's racial discrimination, and a lot of the awful legacy of enslavement. Palmaris reminds me how we can not only change our future,

6:15like Palmarinos did, but that we can also change our past. And what I mean by this is that we can change our collective heritage, that we can change our historical monuments, that we can choose different heroes that can be more representative of who we are as a nation. So Palmaris for me, also as a heritage scholar, as an anthropologist, even as a Latina that lives in the United States, it speaks of inclusion of black history. It speaks of the power of diversifying our collective heritage and our memory. So Palmaris is not just a place where we can go or read about to celebrate our past historical events, but it's a place that's shaped actually how we define Brazilian and Latin American heritage in history. And especially for me, it's a place where we celebrate black lives. And we celebrate them not just in the past, but we just celebrated today in the present. And for our future. That's a great place to end this forum from the BBC World Service.

7:15My thanks to all three of you, Maria Fernanda Escajón, José Lina Nafafé and Pedro Palofonari. Thanks to the translators, Clive Woolis and Stuart Schwartz. And I'll leave you with a quote from the 1978 manifesto of the Brazilian Unified Black Movement about the Black Consciousness Day. We, Brazilian Blacks, proud of descending from Zoom B, leader of the Black Republic of Palmaris, which existed in the State of Alagoas from 1595 to 1696, defying Portuguese and Dutch dominion, come together to declare to the Brazilian people our true and effective date to 20th of November National Black Consciousness Day. The Day of Death of the Great Black National Leader, Zoom B, responsible for the first and only Brazilian attempt to create a democratic society free in which all people, Blacks, Native Americans

8:22and whites achieved a great political, economic and social advance. The Day of Death of the Great Black Consciousness Day. The Day of Death of the Great Black Consciousness Day.

9:33The Day of Death of the Great Black Consciousness Day. The Day of Death of the Great Black Consciousness Day.

10:33The Day of Death of the Great Black Consciousness Day. The Day of Death of the Great Black Consciousness Day.

11:33The Day of Death of the Great Black Consciousness Day. The Day of Death of the Great Black Consciousness Day.

12:33The Day of Death of the Great Black Consciousness Day. The Day of Death of the Great Black Consciousness Day.

13:33The Day of Death of the Great Black Consciousness Day. The Day of Death of the Great Black Consciousness Day.

14:33The Day of Death of the Great Black Consciousness Day. The Day of Death of the Great Black Consciousness Day.

15:33The Day of Death of the Great Black Consciousness Day. The Day of Death of the Great Black Consciousness Day.

16:33The Day of Death of the Great Black Consciousness Day. The Day of Death of the Great Black Consciousness Day.

17:33The Day of Death of the Great Black Consciousness Day. The Day of Death of the Great Black Consciousness Day.

19:03the Day of Death of the Great Black Consciousness Day. The Day of Death of the Great Black Consciousness Day. I can't believe it. I'm going to go. I'm going to go. I think it's too late. It seems that my helmet is too heavy. I have to go. I have to go. I have to go. I have to go. I have to go. I have to go a few steps. I have to be free. A lot of time is detto long. I know that. It's better pretty better.

20:05I have to go outside. I will go outside. Yes! Please leave a comment below. Thank you for watching.

21:23Oh

26:53Yeah, we're still staying. I think that's right. The Paradezo. London Feast. It's going to be a bit rusty on the stairs and in the red room. Maybe everyone is in the big hall to do the flowers. And I think it's going to be a bit busy. A lot of tattoos, minor injuries. It seems like a new lighting parasite is coming in.

27:58And that the rest is in the basement. The red room is almost empty. Ballonet. Ballonet. Flowers. Flowers. Do it again. Live in the wreck. Patapoo. Kuyakasha. Parasito. Wow wow. Blue smoke. No sense to do that. Blue smoke.

29:18Stop. Stop. I couldn't touch you. And I was over here. Stop. Stop. Hey, you're in the wreck. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop.

30:47And I love those stars. There's always an unexpected signal. And the two are always through. I was really surprised. Beautiful days. It's coming. The Muskers finish on the pitch. And we're going through. And the most positive, elegant, elegant, excited.

31:48It's really bizarre. I'm going to try it again for a year. On this sort of, you're right, it's been 40 years. For a year, it's been 40 years. Yes. Yes. Yes. I think it's a bit of a trolling performance. But I've got a lot of things going on. And I'm really looking forward to it. Maybe one or two of them will let me hear it. Then we're going to play a little bit more. But I'm going to talk a little bit about staccato. Short, staccato 7. Yes. I'm looking forward to it. You're still in to win. I don't know if you're still there. But we're still broadcasting live from the television in Amsterdam. Here's Reja Patpou, inspecting the scene together with Gap and Gap.

32:53And the bands are going on. DJs are going on. On all floors of the building. It's OK. And we'll see how far we go.

34:39It's hard for you. It's OK. It's OK. It's OK.

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48:29. . . . . . I would say they are like a mixing program here, where from not all the dark is a darker cop, very light. But yeah, that's the most successful event we've ever had. I thought so too. In the meantime, I hope you're all well prepared for this event. Where did you come from today? It's a rattle. But it's clear that it's all over again around Amsterdam. And that's a step to me, very positive. This is the best event.

49:33There are people. Yes, I know you're missing the whole night. And we are still broadcasting live from the television pop tempo. And we don't stop till the end. We go until the end. Don't stop till the end again, I love you. That's right. That's the only thing we can do. We are going to send a message from Amsterdam tomorrow. They are going to do more experiments. Of course, they are good other DJ centers. They are going to do a great job. But what do you expect from the experiment? We have to start. My staff is back. And we're done. Dear people, maybe you're still listening to me.

50:34We are broadcasting the whole night here from the pop tempo in Amsterdam. If you have any questions, please let me know. Once a year, there's a very big party in the honour of a small village, former village, now inhabited by artists. And they give their 40th anniversary party, the 20th of December, each year. And it's a full programme, about many acts, music, theatre, theatre, theatre arts, and radio, of course.

52:07And tired for healing, healing moment, healing the world, healing, healing the world. A very sincere look, and we know all people. Healing the world is necessary once in a while, maybe more a while and a once. But that's for insiders. A lot of dancing again.

53:27Yes, that was Eva. We are going half and half now. All right. I don't know if you have been to a great club party, but probably party organized.

54:44The last news if I was serving as the very last news for the party in Lisbon, Portugal, beautiful city. It's an amazing city. Dua Pelé. Mark.

55:47A long time ago. There are other men's legs. Marco and men's legs. Choco, choco. Choco, choco, choco. Ah, ah. Duapale.

57:22oh oh oh Oh... Oh... Ah. Ooooh! Through the trees, four moons, We only start to work. We only start to work when there's no money. We only start to work. We only start to work when there's no money. We only start to work. We only start to work when there's no money. We only start to work. We only start to work when there's no money. We only start to work. the word.

58:24Hania na, Hania na, Hania na, Hania na, Hania na, Hania na. Hania na, Hania na, Hania na. Hania na, Hania na, Hania na, Hania na.

59:33Hania na, Hania na, Hania na. Hania na, Hania na, Hania na. Good job. It's a special thing to say. What is the question? What is going on?