#166 - Can DeFi scale without sacrificing neutrality or permissionlessness?

DeFi has always promised trust without intermediaries, but as the ecosystem matures, that promise is being stress-tested by hacks, institutional risk limits, and regulatory pressure.

To unpack whether DeFi can scale without sacrificing neutrality or permissionlessness, Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos, General Counsel of StarkWare, and Jessi Brooks, General Counsel & Chief Compliance Officer at Ribbit Capital, joined the podcast to discuss their paper “Trust Without Intermediaries: A Programmable Risk Management Framework for the Future.”

The paper sparked controversy across the DeFi community, with critics arguing it could open the door to protocol-level compliance or re-intermediation. In this episode, Katherine and Jessi explain that the paper proposes something different.

Timestamps:

➡️ 01:31 — Why write this paper?

➡️ 07:55 — Institutional DeFi and why one-size-fits-all doesn’t work

➡️ 09:43 — Compliance as a commercial choice, not a mandate

➡️ 11:38 — Risk scoring in DeFi

➡️ 15:37 — Technical de-risking

➡️ 18:23 — Optional evolution

➡️ 20:59 — Not protocol-level compliance

➡️ 25:49 — Opt-in DeFi

➡️ 30:44 — Lessons from the backlash and public debate

& much more.

Sponsor: : ⁠⁠ This episode is brought to you by ⁠⁠⁠Day One Law⁠, a boutique law firm helping crypto startups navigate complex legal challenges. Subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠Day One’s free monthly newsletter⁠⁠⁠ for legal and regulatory updates.

Resources:

📄 Trust Without Intermediaries: A Programmable Risk Management Framework for the Future

Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.