11 O'Clock Comics Episode 1024: Thank for Everything, Mike!

0:00I'm John Case and I are the third creator of Fashion and Action, artist on Suicide Squad, Grindel, Dr. Midnight, and you're listening to 11 o'clock comic. Yeah, I probably won't be making it, but if you have something next week, I'm sorry. Yeah. It just should happen about three quarters away through that wind and you'll be inspired

1:06and you'll pick up a slack. And when is your trip Jason? When is my trip? Aren't you going to be missing an episode soon? No, no, no, no, no, I know I know you've got the spring break trips to go down to visit school. That's an April. I'll be pretty much in a week now, but that's not until next month. Okay. Thank you. Yes. That's anything. And you shouldn't say I think because you're going to miss something very cool where 11 o'clock comics. This is episode 1024 and I am Fittsby. You are Fittsby. Man. I am David A. Price. That is true and of course I am everyone's favorite. Gollum, I'm Roger the Homunculus for Gollum, but let him go.

2:14No, you're not. Jason Woo, everybody. Thank you very much, chief graphic novels.com because they're the people, they're the person that bring us together each and every week. Cheap graphic novels.com, O.G.N's, tree paperbacks, collections, bus editions, manga, art books, D.C.'s finest, marvel, avat collections, anything that's a spine and a retail brace is, well they keep the spine, but the retail price is like laughed at, it's, it's much fun of. Like the kid in the back, you know, yeah Max looks at the prices, there's no, no, true expensive. It's going to be a lot cheaper at cheap graphic novels, I can't, the name says it all,

3:14cheap graphic novels, I can't, in addition to a Nick and Dead sale, a black Friday sale which is still going on, they have specials as well. They do have specials. Like, yeah, the breed on the bus hard cover for $80, he has taken you to the stars and beyond. Starland takes you to hell. Starland's other epic creator own series, breed, is the story of Raymond Stoner, a down on his luck ex-soldier who discovers his true heritage. He is the half-breed spawn of a demon father and a human mother. Now, Raymond must defend our world from demonic hordes all while trying not to lose his own humanity collected by a monkey wrench press for the first time ever in hard cover. The breed on the bus contains all three breed series plus a wealth of extras at more than 500 and 50 pages of Jim Starland goodness. Also, Lobos, 20 bucks?

4:16No, no, 80, 80. Oh, okay. Sorry if it sounded like 18, yeah, no, 80. But the next two are much, much cheaper and under $20. Lobo, back-to-back trade paperback for $12.99. If you've ever wondered how Lobo got his reputation as the biggest, baddest bounty hunter in the universe, this book shows you why the laces are in is the last person you want to be on the wrong side of Lobo, back-to-back featured stories scripted and drawn by the incomparable Keith Giffin with his partners in crime, Alex Grant, Simon Bisley and Cristian Alivey, and is a hilariously violent and over-the-top portrait of a crude anti-hero who punches and frags his way through the galaxy. Hey, everybody's got to make a living, right? This Lobo won through four and Lobo's back won through four. And finally, Rick and Morty ate nothing to frick with, trade paperback, only compact comics edition for $7.99, technological calamity and a little interdimensional cable, whoo, interlude from the ball fondlers.

5:16Get ready for the latest offering of Rick and Morty, only compact comic edition ate nothing to frick with. Perfect for long-time fans and those new to Rick and Morty. This is any four-story collection features and all-star talents of Zach Gorman, Kyle Starks, Jennifer Roberts, Raffer Roberts, Zander Cannon, Fred C. Stressing, and Andrew McClain. Collects Rick and Morty from 2015, number six, and numbers 56 through 60. Rick and Morty presents Rick and a box number one and Rick and Morty, Misex PI, numbers one through four. It's crazy to me. Pardon me loves the fact that they're jumping around. Yeah. Let me hate it with the passion. Yeah. I've yet to figure out which is going to get upper hand in the, the, the, kind of, we keep, we keep, you do to the math, it's $7.99 for eight issues plus what's going on?

6:19What's happening? Yeah. No, yeah. Ten in this book. Ten in this, in this collection. I mean, it, it makes sense because there are so many other ways that only has published Rick and Morty where you can just get complete series consecutively. You, you are right, you're, yeah. But this seems to be, I'm not, I'm not really super upset at this trend, depending on if, if, if the format, if the context works, because DC's doing the same thing with the DC finest where they're jumping around like the, they're collecting certain Batman stories or, or, or certain Wonder Woman stories, they're not necessarily going, I mean, they'll have the chronological collections, but, but for the most part, if they're just doing like a, a, a theme with that particular book, they'll, they'll jump around and just make a collection of, they're priced accordingly. Yes. I'm willing to try eight theories that's twand out, you know, 20 bucks or less than a $90 or on us, you know, um, but I'm, I'm still going to buy the Rick and Morty and it's

7:27just complaining about it as well. That's fine. That what, yeah, as we're supposed to do, that's what we do, we complain, but there's really no complaints about cheap graphics, that's calm. Very true true. Yeah. Thank you very much, Max. Love you. Love you. So much. Let's begin. Yeah. I'm, I'm drinking the usual, uh, I'm, I'm guessing that the case was, um, all the same year because this is a 20, 20 as well and it's just straight red blood. Um, of course, talk about Charles Charles, the devil trouble, um, from again, 20, 20, nice. Yeah. It doesn't have a number. So what? That's all right.

8:27That's all right. As long as that, as long as it's a 10 on your tongue, you know what I'm saying? I would say it's a nine. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I too am drinking a little vene, uh, this is from Ant Hill Farms out in Cali. It is a Pinot Noir called the Campbell Ranch 2023 and, um, it's quite nice. Uh, I'm going to let you know what venue is thinks of events because I know you're curious. It says that, uh, yeah, it says that this 2023 Pinot Noir Campbell Ranch is exceptional. It's a stunningly complex flat out sexy line packed to the gills with dark cherry fruit dried flowers and exotic spices. There's so much going on here, the finished lingers for minutes, exceptionally lifted and dripping with texture from the 60% whole clusters in spite of formidable tenons that build with air. This 2023 is irresistible to drink today. Tag. Yeah. Sounds good. Yeah. Real good.

9:28Organic. Yeah. Whatever. Uh, it, uh, it, um, sounds like more than willing to pay though. This will set you back about Fiddy. Yeah. Yeah. That's too much. Do you have any Rick and Morty books that he's Jason? Yeah. So full. Yeah. Uh, this is a delightful red blend from bread and butter. Uh, Napa, California, vented and bottled by bread and butter, classic California red blend with notes of black around vanilla and toasted. Oh, perfect one. Enjoyed with good food, which you really have tonight and company, which I have right now. Oh, look at you. Look at it. Doesn't have to be, but he's very complimentary. Factoids. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. Yeah. Yeah.

10:29Oh, no. Yeah. It's not a game. Uh, before, before we do the game, the game is, the game is in homage to the, to the, to the right. Great, great, great. The game is the, the game is the dessert. We have to get it first. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. We're jumping right in. No, it's getting there. Uh, but unfortunately, the premise of the game is, is, is, it's not sitting well with the game. Well, because of the news that it's predicated on. Yeah. Right. And that is, um, Mike Richardson out of dark horse for 40, three and years on dark horse's birthday. Almost as long as we've been doing the show. Yeah. Yeah. He's ousted as a CEO of, uh, of, uh, the comps imprint. He found it. Yes. And that, it is, uh, Mike probably saw the ring on the wall when the company was sold not

11:34till long ago. A couple of years ago. Yeah. Um, well, he sold the company. Yeah. Right. He didn't, he didn't. Yeah. Yeah. And decided to sell it. So it's not like, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's bittersweet because yes, he, it, it sucks the way that it happened, but he, he seems to have, I mean, after selling it, I would imagine he had made peace with the, with, with, with, with the idea of it. Um, I don't know if, if they figured he's, you know, if he thought he'd be there until the end of time, but the new company decided to do what new companies do after a while. Um, but you're not alone, Vince, because I mean, other creators from all over have, have, um, have been, I only saw one journalist basically try to not necessarily defend it, but just be more matter of fact about it. Look at it logically, whereas everybody else was, has been talking about what Mike means to them and what dark horse is meant to them and, and, and that's where we're going

12:36to do this. But please, and, and, and I'm, I'm, I'm saddened that it happened to begin with, but the fact that it did happen forced me to look at dark horse and think, dark horse has been around forever. Similarly, um, they were a big part of my, at one time I was buying more dark horse than Marvel and DC. So, um, could you have done a better job, a CEO, that's, that's, that's debatable. You know, um, I, I think he did a fine, we, we know who the guy is, right? We know who the, we are aware of the books he published. He, for a lack of a better, um, phrase, he changed his history. Um, I, I have nothing but love for Mike Richardson and the fact that, um, whether there was a

13:41back door deal where he would stay on as the, the guy in light of dark horse or whether he would slowly fade into the background is, is beyond me to understand. But, uh, as a fan of dark horse, I'm a little, I'm a little, I'm a little, I'm a little mess. Yeah. Um, I could shed a little light on the, on the, the, the, the, the, the former, but, um, I think it, I think you're right to say that, that, to me, like, we've to put, put aside the fact that he's gone and like, whether or not it was by design or what have you, because like, ultimately that's for him to decide and know, um, but I'm with you, like, at the end of the day, it's just another sign that we're getting older and that the things that were cornerstones to our fandom are changing if not going away.

14:42Now I'm, again, dark horse isn't going away, but to me, you know, I don't want to be hyperbolic, but like Mike Richardson being gone to me kind of means like dark horse isn't, isn't here anymore. Now, again, like, maybe I'll be proven wrong, maybe they'll continue to put out, you know, interesting books, and I hope they do, but yeah, it just feels like he was dark horse. And like, what an American success story, right? I mean, he, for those that don't know, Mike was, you know, poor kid living in the Pacific Northwest. He, uh, literally maxed out a credit card for a couple thousand dollars to start, uh, just at his own comic store, um, called Pegasus, um, and he just, you know, just a, an LCS. He just started the store and, uh, ran it really well and, and, and grew and then built a chain of stores, which then became, um, things from another world, which again, many of you old heads know that T-Fall was a website we used to gush about. And if you, if any of you crazy go back and listen to the early episodes of the show, we used to always talk about T-Fall sales because they would have these great sales, but

15:44they were like a precursor to cheap graphic novels and to DCB service. You know, they were an online place you could buy books. The T-Fall was a chain that he owned and then he became an online store and then, um, to Mike's credit, he was constantly frustrated with the big two and the way that they treated retailers and the way that they treated creators. And he was like, well, if he can't, you know, if he can't, like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna build a better mouse trap and he started Dark Horse to basically try and be fairer to the people that really drive the industry, right? And he did that and, and, I mean, the rest is history, right? I mean, like you said, Vince, 40 years, there's, I mean, I was looking this week, I'm sure you guys were too. Like, the list of books that they have put out is just, right, it's astonishing. And the thing is, is like, it's not even like that they had, oh, this title or this title, it's that so many of the titles that we're probably gonna cover a bunch tonight, I mean, Dark Horse put out hundreds, sometimes thousands of comics under these, under these properties.

16:48I mean, you know, and, and, and one thing you could always say about Dark Horse, always very, very high quality, right? Like, like, you know, I'm not gonna say I read all the Star Wars stuff they put out or all the alien to print their stuff they ever put out, I would come and go, like, I'm sure many, but I can't think of much of any that I would read and think, well, that's poor quality, right? Whereas, I mean, pretty much everybody else outside of, I guess, skybound these days and they're very new at it, that did license comics, always had a lot of shit, right? Even if they had some good stuff, like, most of it was shit. And yet, Dark Horse's license stuff, which is a big chunk of their history, was always at a certain level of quality. And again, putting aside your personal preferences, whether you like the story, the artist, whatever is not what I'm talking about, but like, it was just super well-produced and cared for. And, and yeah, man, like, like, we're gonna talk tonight about a bunch of the, the books that we think are, you know, titles or concepts that they, that were definitive for us,

17:50but I mean, just an incredible history, you know, and I don't know where Dark Horse's place in history stands with, like, against fanatographics or image, but it certainly belongs right up there with them. Like, however you want to frame it, everyone to rank it or conceptualize it, like, we can't, our fandom wouldn't, wouldn't be what it is today, if not for Dark Horse, right? Like, it's, it's, it holds a piece of our hearts and always will. So. Um, and I also find it really, really strange that the, the most of the comics about which will be speaking didn't originate at Dark Horse, uh, they were the whole, see, I, I, I, I intentionally only picked books that were originated Dark Horse. Well, the, the, the, the second or third incarnation of some of the books, but they flourished under, yeah, I'm not saying you guys had to follow that rule.

18:52I'm saying I, I, I, there are things that I think are synonymous with Dark Horse that I explicitly kept from my list because they didn't start there, but that doesn't not appropriate to bring up the big, the big, big, big ones did. Yes, uh, started to, at Dark Horse. But if I think what surprised some people, yeah, that, that there are a lot that did not. And that's, that's my number five. Oh, wait, and also, um, relative to your point about the business side, like for, for, for those, we mentioned how he sold it, but, but it's important to remember. So he sold Dark Horse to a company called the Embracer Group. Embracer Group is a publicly traded company. It's not publicly traded here in the US. It's traded in Europe, but they're a public company. Um, and I, I talked actually, it's something like, in fact, I think, because we were, when we were doing, uh, articles, we reached the back, when we were doing articles, I wrote up an article about the, actually, the sale to Embracer Group at the time.

19:54But, um, Embracer, um, like was one of those companies that was trying to roll up lots of, of, of IP. So they own gaming companies and tabletop gaming companies and media properties and, mobile gaming companies and, and Dark Horse was one of their publishing acquisitions, but they, they're like a hodgepodge of IP, frankly, a lot of which you would, would not be household names. Like, you would be like, oh, well, I don't even know what that is. But, but like, collectively, they were trying to just assemble as much IP as they could. Um, which, you know, is always a shit idea, right? Like, like, in a, in a conglomeration of random IP is a bad idea from the start, but that's what they were doing. And, I mean, I doubt, I don't blame anybody for not paying attention to it. Embracer's stock is done, but, uh, but, but, um, Embracer's stock is basically lost 90% of its value in the last five years. And for context, the stock market on a whole is rocketed over five of the last five years. So like, not only is the stock lost, you know, nine tenths of its value, but it's lost that in the time when pretty much you could own any stock, other than that, it was making you money. Yes, so it's been a disaster.

20:55I mean, the company is in serious financial problems. They have done massive layoffs and, and spun off lots of divest, they've divested other things over the last few years to try and stay afloat. And Dark Horse was relatively unscathed through that, largely because of Richard Sins' role and from what I understand, the deal he cut with them that gave a lot of the core employees, you know, a period of time, you know, the like guarantees. And that time is up. And, you know, I would say that I certainly don't know like personally to know what his financial situation is like. But I know a lot of people presumed when he sold to Embracer, that he was like, you know, cashing out rich. And he probably thought that too. But the way these deals are structured, most of his compensation was built on Embracer's stock. So it's quite possible that, like, frankly, you know, ended up losing a lot of money in this, like, rather, had he just kept the Dark Horse, right? Like, it's quite possible. I hope that's not true. Like, I hope the dude for all he's done for comics

21:56and is now that he's in the 70s should. I hope he's wealthy enough to just build up the rest of his life. But this was not a thing of like, you know, like selling out to the man and getting rich and walking away. Like, again, he's, he's, he might be walking away, like, financially comfortable, I hope. But he did not get rich off of this. He probably thought he was going to get rich. Like, at the time, the deal was made. I'm sure he saw Holy Shum. I'm rich, but, but they didn't turn out that way, right? Like, like, through, through the fold of his own. I think the only people that get rich on comics, anyway, are the owners for the most part. You know, like, the absolute comics people are doing well. But the other, I mean, they're making millions. They're doing fine. They're doing more. Sure. But DC and Marvel are making millions of dollars. Well, remember, Mike, I mean, Mike is a, I mean, Mike is certainly a, well, I'm like, Mike owns, I mean, because Dark Horse is not in a Dark Horse owns.

22:56Now, Mike was always wanted to be friendlier than Marvel and DC. But basically, the deals, and I know each deals somewhat different. But basically, Dark Horse was a 50-50 deal. Like, if you do a bucket of Dark Horse, Mike gets half of the IP, you get half the IP. So, like, to your point, like, you know, Mike was the executive producer on the Hellboy movies. He was the executive producer on the mask film with Jim Carrey. Like, so he's, he's eaten. Like, he's, he gets, he's an owner. But, you know, I think at least to, to his credit, you know, he's an owner who always believed in equitable distribution, right? Right. Right. And I know that some people are like, well, he's still got 50 percent. Well, he did, but like, he got 50 percent. Like, everybody knew the deal going in though, right? It's not like, it's not like it was like, he tricked them into getting that. And, and you may remember over the years, I mean, we've had talks with, with creators on the show that will, like, do a lot of books of image, and then they'll announce they're doing stuff at Dark Horse. And we'd be like, well, why are you working at Dark, why are you working with Dark Horse when, you know,

23:57you can image, keep 100 percent? Like, Lamir and Kent are two examples. And they were always like, well, because Mike is an amazing person. He's super great to work with. And, you know, there's value in sort of being diversified. And so, I always thought that was really a testament to Mike, because like, why would you give up, if you're a known creator, if you're a Scotty, you know, or, you know, or, or, or, or again, or Lamir, or somebody who's already succeeding in creator owned, why would you go to a publisher that wants to take half? And these guys all did it willingly, and they kept doing it. So, like, that shows you how great Mike must be to work with. Yeah. Right? Because like, it was worth it to them to give up economics to deal with him. So, true that, true that. But, needless to say, it does sting a bit. It does. Absolutely. Yes, it does. So, the task tonight is we're going to each talk about our five favorite Dark Horse titles. And, you know, again, we didn't establish any rules going in,

25:00but I couldn't possibly, like, I wasn't thinking like, I'm going to tell you, like, play the frogs, like, right? Like, like, like, like, like, like, to me, it's like, Hellboys. You know what I mean? Like, like, like, like, like, that's the point. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Because it would be ridiculous to like, just to like, pick a, you know, a volume of these things, because to me, that's not what Dark Horse is about. Dark Horse is about, like, these titles that gave us years and years. It's not decades of stories. Agreed. Right. Um, a first sentence or a story number five? Usually, when I do a list like this, um, my number one is my number one. And the rest is mable. This list is, um, sitting stone. All right. There, there's no moving shit around because, um, I have it to the point of where it means the most. Smith, the number one, uh, the number five,

26:01means the fifth, uh, uh, enjoyed. Must pump thing at dark horse, ah, that is Usagi Yudjimbaus. I love it. From Stan Psychi. I did not start. And I explicitly excluded it because it didn't start there. But I totally think it's fair to bring up. Because obviously, a humongous chunk of Usagi's history has been through Dark Horse. Right. 170 plus regular issues and that's not counting the color thresholds. I think Sakai is one of those guys, they share it to you, that gets overlooked very easily, because he started off strong and just kept getting better and better. And you know, more accomplished. And I think when the words dark horse, when some of the others

27:04those words, it'd be some mind certain series. And Usaki is one of them. Like I can't conceive of dark horse without Stan Sakai. So yeah, totally reasonable to bring it into the equation despite it. Right. So I went with the number five. Nice. King. I, I, you already said you can't be stressed. No, I, no, I'm not, I'm, I'm not stressed. And, and I was, I'm still, I'm still all a bit flummoxed over you and, and you putting a rule on, on, on your list. But, uh, when I was making my list, wait, wait, am I some rule breaker? Wait, what? No, no, no, but normally on vents is always the rule breaker. But normally you're like, you, you would get on my case about putting qualifiers. Oh, for sure. So yeah. So, so, so, so there was too much. So I, I was like, all right, I need to

28:08figure out a way to like cheat, not cheap, but like get some things that would be obvious off of the list because they didn't start there. All right. So there's something I'm sure you're going to mention that I'm also going to say it wasn't on my list because it didn't start there. But I, oh, yes. And I'm not going to say most of, but yes, there are, and, and I realized as I was doing my five, I'm like, Oh crap. Like this actually, this, this is the way this worked just kind of just it flowed and it, it, it, it, it worked for me. So I'm not, I don't have a five through one. So these are just my top five. So I'm, I'll start with the book that I consider the franchise player for the company. And that's concrete. Yes. Paul Chadwick. Paul Chadwick. You've got plenty of, plenty, plenty, plenty of, plenty of collections. I believe it's even coming back soon or there's a story coming back soon. It is, it's coming back. So yeah, it's, it's, I, I was reading some of the stories

29:11through the smaller collections that they'd put out because Bruce Dappell had a few. So I grabbed them. But yeah, I mean, it, it's just I like the idea of concrete about just just just normal schlub who's, who's, who's brain ends up getting put into a, a, a alien rock body. And, Oh, gollum, if you will. No, you go. Gollum or Alma. And, and, and, and go on to, it's right. Our magneto, our magneto. But the, the, the, the stories are, they're, they're, I mean, aside from this big golem looking dude, you've, you've, the, the, the, the stories are pretty much down earth and, and dealing with, with love and, and, and, and, and there's drama. It's, it's different than some of the other Dark Horse books I've read growing up. But yeah, it, it's just, it's one of those there. I'm just like, yeah, I'm, I'm glad this book exists. And I'm glad Mike and the crew

30:18at Dark Horse decided to, to, to let Paul run with it and, and, and grow from near. So yeah, it's, it, it, it, it, looking at everything, it's, it's weird that it would have made my top five, considering everything else that they had put out. But yeah, it just, it, it, as I was finishing the list, it just clicked. Well, it was my number four. So let's make it my number five. For continuity sake. Um, I'm right there with you. Yeah, I, I, it was actually probably the second thing that came into my head when I was starting to make the list. Um, also because I, um, it also is one of the, it is a Dark Horse original thing. And also it, it started in DHP, you know, which, which ended up itself. And again, I, we have a lot, a lot of list to go. I don't, I don't know if DHP specifically is in either of your list, but, but it, it, it, it wasn't free only, almost because to me, like, Dark Horse presents its, like, its own thing. It's almost like already, like, grandfathered into the Hall of Fame. I couldn't make, like, you know, it's, it's,

31:19it's so, it's so definitively Dark Horse and responsible for so much of the other stuff that's, like, we're probably going to talk about that I couldn't, like, include it because it felt like cheating. But, uh, but yeah, so concrete for sure. I mean, I, I, I, I hadn't read a single page of concrete until we started the podcast. And, uh, I think, I mean, I'm going to give credit or credits to you. I'm pretty sure Vince spoke lovingly about it, like, in our first or second year, and then I went and bought all the collections versus history. So yeah, I love it. Nice. Nice. My number four is concrete. There you go. It's on all of our list. Like, all Chad, like, yeah, nice. Uh, thank you for saying everything that I don't have to. You're very welcome. Our pleasure. All right, dad, who's number four? Uh, this is the, the, the, the, the, the qualifier here is that this is from the legend imprint. And I went with Hellboy.

32:25Oh, sure. It's, it's, uh, I mean, we, we, we can go into the whole legend. I, I can't sit later, but it, it's, um, yeah, I mean, Hellboy is, uh, Mike took a gamble on this really not much of a commercial artist who didn't do a whole lot of, who didn't have a lot of sequential comp of work and, and what he did was, was, was for the big two. But, um, and because Mike, I think, wasn't really, didn't think he was a strong writer at the time, uh, grabbed John Byrne to write the story for the first Hellboy mini series. And, uh, and, and, and it, and it's just obviously, um, it, it blew the fuck up. I mean, we've had countless titles, spin-offs. We've had, we've had movies. We've had animated. We, we, we've got, we've got toys. It's, it's just, it went beyond, and it's, it's, it's years old now. And it's just, I'm sure it's gone beyond whatever the hell Mike had thought it would be, but, but, uh, but yeah, I mean, this is,

33:26this is a straight up massive thank you to Mike Richardson for just, and you'll hear that quite a bit tonight. I'm sure, but yeah, it's, it's, um, Mike just offered it and, and Mike said, sure, and, um, that's, that's the rest is, is history. It's, it's a, it's, it's a weird idea too. It's just, it's, it's, it's just do with, with one hand big, and me other, he's got a tail, he's got so sh, sh, sh, shorn down horns. It's just, but no, it's, it's, it's, other people can talk about what hellboy a lot better than I could, but I am, again, it's just something that I, it, for me, it's synonymous with dark horse and I, I, I really do. That's it, exactly. I mean, regardless of where it places in any of our ranks, I think you'd have a hard time arguing that in, but at this point in its history that hellboy isn't the, the things most synonymous with dark horse, because it's born and bred and then it's been, you know, it has, it has been a consistent, important, if not the most important source of, of, of sales, notoriety, and, and creativity

34:29for the company for what, 20 years now? I mean, I don't even remember when, when, 30 or Jesus, it's, it's their, it's probably 30 years old. Holy shit. That is crazy. Okay. And, uh, um, I mean, you know, this credit, he, um, did something to his title character years ago. Yeah. And, yeah, ever, ever since has been expanding. Yep. The, the hellboy universe with characters other than hellboy. So it's like, it's like, uh, they're still hellboy stories being told, but they're, they're flashbacks or old stories, or, or, remember when typegills, but, um, he's creating the stable of new characters as well as, that tried and true out by NBPRD, that it's just like smart. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

35:31And it's, I mean, and we've had, there, there were a ton of, not a ton, it is the, as far as I'm concerned, and as far as I can tell, um, the last front cover comes back for Sin City. It's the last living legend. They don't use the imprint anymore, but it's, it's the, it's the only legend title still in existence, still being, still being made, the story still being made based on based on that imprint. So that's, that's, that's, that's longevity right there. That's a long stretch. Yep. Yeah. Um, my number four probably no surprise. Do you guys, uh, black hammer, uh, Jeff's, Jeff's universe, um, which, which I always like, I feel like he's ended it like three times now in the bread of back. So I think it's technically over now, but, I don't know if it's really over. Anyway, um, but yeah, you know, I, and, and as, as we were making those, I realized that you can't so much of, of my adoration for Dark Horse is also evocative to me of my memories of our show because, um, I've, I've, I've remembered when we had Jeff on God,

36:36probably 15 years ago, probably for the first time, and we were talking to him about this stuff, and I remember we're just like shooting a shit riffing, and he was talking to us about how he loved classic superhero comics, prickly DC. And, and again, this is so long ago that we were like, oh, no shit, really? Because he wasn't doing anything other than his stuff at the time. And he said, yeah, you know, I'm gonna, I've been working, you know, I may have some things in the works of DC, and like we're gonna, and, and at the time, this was like breaking news, and we're like, oh, get out of here, like, you know, Jeff, like indie guy's gonna, gonna do superhero comics, how fun, and, you know, he talked to us with us, so passionate about how, how these characters meant so much to him, and he'd love to play in those worlds at some point. And then, of course, he did. I mean, Jeff has written a lot of great, in his background, you know, he's written a lot of great stories for DC, directly, but, but this was to me the culmination of, of the two sides of Jeff Lamir, you know, the, the creator-owned guy who wants to have full control of his own ideas, and, and what happens into these worlds, and build big worlds, but then also has this, you know, unabashed love of DC silver and golden age characters, and that's what Blackhammer is. It's his, it's his ability to

37:40amalgamate the two things he cared about, and to find his career into one thing, completely his own. And, and I, I adore, as you guys know, everything about Blackhammer, all the mini-series, the one-shots, I just, I think it's great, and it's been like one of the more fulfilling pieces of my reader, my reading over the last decade, so easy pick for me. I'm surprised it's only number four. Hey, it's a long night. It's a long night, dog. I am too. Number three. I, again, not a character that started at Dark Wars. I believe it was Camico that had the first Grendel story. Yeah, but Warchild started at Dark Wars. Yes, I think it was ten issues. Yep. And then you had Grendel tales in the rest's history.

38:46Again, one of those titles that immediately conjures Dark Wars, whether or not it's, it's started there. I think Mike was extremely savvy in, in getting Grendel. I don't, I can't, I can't put all the blame or praise at Mike's feet, because Diana, Diana Schultz, is Matt's sister-in-law. So I'm pretty sure she had a really good, oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, but he couldn't say no. He could have, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, what the hell did I want that for? It lasted for the issues at Camico. Yeah, for it, it's actually at Camico and why the hell did I want

39:48to pull the shot? But he did. He did? And not with the title character intact, either. Well, I'm jumping ahead, X amount of years. What? What do you mean? Oh, yeah, yeah, it's a Grendel poem. It's not Grendel. Okay. But when you, you slowly sink into the Grendel's tales, it's like, oh my god, how much better can this stuff get? Like, it's so good that in, he didn't know that at the time. He just had, uh, Jim's agreement by Matt Wagner, you know, this one working on, um, what do you think? Yeah, I'm polish. Why not? And the rest is history. Like, the Grendel

40:51still is showing them a dark horse. Where it's, it's one of the most titles that when you say dark horse, I see a Grendel. Yeah. And just like with, uh, with Usagi, I'm not mad at you for that. Like, I, again, I, I explicitly didn't include it because to me, I mean, it started at Camico, but I agreed with what you're saying. And, and especially ironic, because a hundred percent of my Grendel experience as a reader has been through Dark Horse, right? Because I didn't read it when it was Camico. I read it because I became friends with this Jamaican named King Dap, who loves Grendel. And I'm like, well, I need to get smart on this. And so I bought my first thing I've read of those, those dark horse digest omnibuses that he put out the compendi, you know, like, and, and, and that's probably how anyone that's read Grendel in the last 20 years is almost assuredly read it through Dark Horse, you know, because obviously most of all the reprints that are in print are from Dark Horse, even the stuff from Camico. So I agree, like, it is absolutely definitively a Dark Horse thing, even though like, it's also not, right? Like, it's fast. Like, he just speaks to, you know, and, and part of this maybe is another feather in Mike's cap. Like,

41:56Mike had like multiple avenues of, of, of value as a publisher. He brought over lots of manga to the, to the US and kept it in print, right? Probably most notably lone, lone wolf and cub, but like lots of other stuff like berserk and drag an empire, right? And like, and, and then he had a lot of stuff that were started elsewhere by other companies that either went to funk or had struggles. And then he not, not only brought them aboard, but then he became their place for decades. Like, he, you know, he gave them a stable place to be. Usagi and Grendel probably being the top two of that. Then he had all the license stuff, which again, I mean, you know, what are we, we're talking at least a thousand comics if we're talking about Star Wars and aliens and predator and great terminator? Like, it's at least a thousand, right? If not two, three thousand. Um, and then obviously he, there's the, then he had the, the stuff that that actually originated at Dark Horse. So incredible and incredible, like multifaceted publisher, you know, who didn't just have one trick? If you were that. Yeah. Yeah, it is. Who's your number three debt?

43:01My number three would be one of my all-time top five, maybe top three, anthology series. And that has to be Dark Horse Presents. It, it, it, it, it, it, it, it introduced the adhp is just something that, I mean, yes, you already mentioned concrete, but it's also where since city began, that we, we, we got aliens, cereals throughout the bar, the bearwood show. I mean, it was, it, it was a fantastic anthology. It was perfect for the time. Uh, it, it was, you, more often than not, if, if every, if every serial in an issue was an embanger, most of them were. You, you, you, you got a very great hit rate with, with, with DHP, um, some creators that, uh, that, that, that, I, I'm so familiar with, uh, completely new to me and, and that I became fans of right after that. It's, um, I was so happy when I found those, those early trades of, uh, or, or the trades collecting the

44:06early issues of, of the series, uh, a few years ago. I just, DHP, when, when, when, when I think of doing an anthology, doing it right, it's, I, I tend to compare almost all anthologies to dark horse presents because it's, it's, it's, it's, it, it, I know that it, it tried to come back with a volume too. It was like, it was, it was, it was almost like a square volume book. Holy shit. Um, yeah. But there was the most, I don't know if it was the most recent one. I know they, they, they had one a few years ago. I know Neil Adams had a story in it. Um, it just, it wasn't quite the same, but, uh, remember they did the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the second most successful of the, I mean, nothing compares to the original DHP run, but, uh, was the MySpace dark horse presents. Right. And you had like, right. Graham in there, you had the Fabio, you had the, you had the, uh, um, umbrella academy in there, you had a bunch of other stuff. And, and, and it's like, it speaks to Mike always trying to be, take chances and, and be new, like, be, to be able, like, like, like, dude partner with MySpace, which again, we laugh about MySpace now, but at the time, MySpace

45:10was like the hot social media platform. And he, you know, and he started, like, trying to make comics with that. And it, like, you know, and I, I mean, I don't think of what lasted maybe two, three years, but, but yeah, 2007 to 2011. So they got four years, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My number three, and, and you guys can tell me if you think this is cheating, but I don't know, it feels different. That didn't get, uh, is BPRD. I view that separately from Hellboy. I mean, it is all obviously. Oh, that's BPRD. Yes. BPRD certainly is born of Hellboy. So if you wanted to just say Hellboy and include it all, like that would be fair play too. But like, I have read more BPRD comics than I have Hellboy comics. Yeah. It's, um, beautifully. Yeah. I mean, and we're talking about again, like well over 150 issues. Like if you, you know, pulling all the things like the Abe Sapien and the, you know, and, and like, you know, all of the minis, like, so, so, and I've read most of that. I have not, I've probably read like half of Hellboy, but I've read almost all of BPRD.

46:13And, uh, yeah. So I just, I felt for my, for my list, I wanted to have it separate. Kudos to Mike for, for, for tapping some phenomenal creators working on. I mean, he has artists like Ryan Suk, James Henry. I mean, they've been some, Dave has been some fantastic artists on the BPRD stories. Oh, for sure. Tyler Crook, Stephen Green. There's long, on and on. Yeah. Nice. All right. Vincent and Silver Metal. Big two. Number two. Number two, um, I'm of a different mindset. I don't believe that you can extract the BPRD. Okay. Uh, uh, I'll tell boy. I think they're one thing. Okay. And my number two is Hellboy BPRD. Because Hellboy's reasons for BPRD is easier in virtually. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Again, I, I, I'm not saying my way is the right way. I was saying, I don't meet my head, but yeah. And that's awesome about this list. It's entirely subjective. For sure. Yeah. Um, and there, there really isn't a wrong answer. Um, it's, it's

47:20for some people that BPRD is separate from all boy, you know, um, and that is perfectly fine. But for me, if I, it's my list. And in number two is Hellboy, uh, Slash BPRD. Nice. Uh, who did have a start in legend. Um, there are some, uh, Darker's Presents appearances. But for the most part, um, he appeared exclusively, uh, for the most part in main series. And that's why they say the Hellboy model. Yes. Yeah. Because, uh, he did his, his own thing. And he didn't have to keep track for that. It was his 61 or 72. Uh, it would be a four or five issue or at the most six issue mentors. And it's, it's like, okay. You know, this is comfortable.

48:31This is nice. And then you had BPRD, which went on for hundreds of issues. So, you know, there's that as well. BPRD with a long time. Yeah. Oh, yeah. A long time. Yep. Longer than the original that, uh, was inspiration. For sure. Yep. You got that right. Um, my number two is, is a homegrown title started off in the Mayhem mini series. And then eventually spawned off into its own mini series. And then a sequel and then a movie. Uh, it is the mask. Um, it is, hands down. And it is, it, this is a character that was created by Mike Richardson. Um, and then, John Arcoody and, and Doug Monkey are the, um, Keith Williams are the creative team that,

49:36that brought the character to life. Um, if you only know, if you stayed away from the mask stories in the comics, because you saw the movie, they are completely different and separate entities. The, the, the mask movie is very exaggerated. Um, it's Jim Carrey amping it up. And it's great. It's, it's, it's a fun movie. Uh, it's, it's, it's a fun movie. Um, I think it's our first movie. It, it, it, it's, it's fun. And I enjoy the movie. Uh, but they take massive liberties from the source material. The source, the, the mask comic is dark. It's, it's, it's, it's much more violent and not the cartoony exaggerated violence. Uh, it, it's, and it's, it's beautiful. Early Doug Monkey is, is just, it's breathtaking to look at. I love those old books, love those old stories. I have a beautiful page that I picked up from Keith Williams at New York Comic Con a bunch of years ago. Um, and it's massive. It's like 14 by 17 because I guess Doug didn't

50:39care to cut off the edges. It, it's a great series. I, I think the series is, is a lot of fun. Um, um, by the original creative team though, they, they, they, they, they've tried to go back to that well a couple of times in recent years. And the, the idea, the germ, if it is still, still there as far as what, what, what the conceit is, but it just, it, it doesn't have that, that spark. And, um, which is unfortunate. But, uh, those, those, those early, the mass, the mass strikes back, if, if you can grab those, grab that on the bus, um, before the, the, the, the, not necessarily the, the animated versions of, of those stories from the mass cartoon, but, uh, those original Arcoody Monkey stories, um, I think you'll have a lot of fun. And it, and it's also, it's, it's, it's of its time. It's, it's, it's from the late 80s. So there, there are, um, here, you're not, it's set in that era, which is fine. But, um, yeah, it, the, the mask is always something that,

51:40that just brings a smile to my face whenever I think about it. And, and, uh, it, it's just something else that I got to thank Mike for. Respect. I would have been baffled if it was on your list. Um, and as I think you know, I've never rid a single page of it. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I think he's hated it. I do. Yeah. Me too. Me too. Yeah. So the fact that you have a pressure on me to try it, believe me, we're also going to read it there. Um, well, my number two, as you may have guessed, by the way, I was saying, I, I mean, BPRD's, it's own thing is Hellboy. Um, so I, I won't, I won't, uh, the paper at the point. I think we've already covered a whole boy and BPRD reasonably well. So, uh, yeah. So that's, that's, that's two that have been on our list. Concrete in Hellboy. Uh, all three of us picked concrete and, uh, all three of us picked Hellboy. Yep. Okay. Yep. So number one in this huge, uh, gulf between number two and number one.

52:40Number one will always be being number one. It's what I think of when I think of Derrick Horse. Um, it is the, uh, it has hosted Black Cross and Trecker and Concrete, Mr. Monser, Aliens, Predator, Roach Mill and the, and the, greenie, uh, the American, the aerial list by Matt Wyder, uh, Eddie Campbell's back is, um, the Max, uh, Birds of Nexman, Art Adams, Monkeyman, Brian Nexist, Jude Hammer, the, you and Damon, Moeys, George Roskey, Hellboy, Shannon Willis, too much coffee man. Uh, most notably is their birthplace of Sin City by Frank Miller, uh, Eddie and so much more. It is, uh, Derrick Horse

53:45Presents, which, um, I'm specifically, uh, the, the Incarnations were good, but I'm specifically, you know, yeah, do Jake. Yeah. It's one is 1986, two thousand. Yeah. Which is quite, no doubt, quite a run. You know what? I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm altering, I'm altering on the fly. I'm going to make my number three Hellboy BPR D because it's two and number two will be BPR, uh, DHP because like I said, I could like, DHP DME was like, so obvious that I was like, well, it's like sort of a fruit of, it's like the root of the tree, like it bore everything else we might talk about. Yep. Oh, I thought, well, I don't want to include it because it's sort of like a cheat code, but your guys both positioning on it has made me think I, I feel dumb not including it. So mine is now concrete, black hammer, Hellboy BPR D, DHP because it, it, everything you guys

54:46said I completely agree with. So I feel stupid about that on the list. Yeah. GG rules. Age gone long. Isn't such a bad thing. It said, he's certainly not for something that's a game like this. I agree. I'll remember that. Okay. I will. Well, I already picked DHP because he's, he hates it and he made it as number three. So, um, it was just the third one I said, it's not, it's not technically my third choice. It's just the third one I, I, I mentioned. Oh, right. You didn't rank them. I forgot. Right. So, uh, except for that. I think I know what you're number one is, but, but you should. It's surprising. Uh, yeah. This is, this is the, this is under the passing the baton category. This is, and this is also one of my all-time favorite, this publisher is half of my all-time favorite crossover series. My number one, published by Dark Horse. As Vince already alluded to and talked about short, but a little bit, is Grendel.

55:48The, um, not only, as Vince said, did the character, did the concept, the franchise appear, or the property first appear at Dark Horse with, with the Grendel war child, um, and, and, of course, years after the events from issue 60 from the Camico run, Dark Horse also went back and reprinted those, most of those 60 issues, as many series based on the Grendel from those stories. So, the Christine Spar double series was, was a 12 issue mini series. The Brian Lee Sun was a three issue mini series and so on. So, whichever, however long the arc lasted under the Camico run, that's how many issues you got in the mini series. Um, and then Grendel Prime still is, around the kicking to this day, we had, uh, we had a recent Grendel mini series, uh, the year two ago. Um, it's, it's just, I, it, obviously I've, I've always been a fan of the character,

56:51it didn't matter where it was going to go. I, I, I was surprised at the time that, that one of Matt's properties went to Dark Horse and the other one to image, um, but it, it makes sense for both of them, the way everything is, as, as ended up. But yeah, it's, um, Grendel is, is obviously, near and near to me, it means something to me and, and, and the fact that, uh, that, that Diana and Mike and Matt all, all figured, Dark Horse was a fine home for it, it's more than fine. It did, in a great run, they've had, they've had the Grendel on the booze, the Grendel tails on the booze, they, they, they've, um, Matt came back and did the, uh, another story with Hunter Rose that ends up also, um, filling out the, the, the double by the deed storyline that, uh, that, that, that they repackaged and, and, and, and retold. Um, yeah, it's, it's, uh, while it did not start

57:55at Dark Horse, um, it made a beautiful home at Dark Horse. I'm, I'm glad it's there. I'm glad Dark Horse is able to, because you sure as I won't going to be able to get them from Camico, so somebody had to be able to. That's fact, sure. So thanks for that. But, uh, but yeah, absolutely, if, um, if there was one book that I could think of that, uh, that, that, that wasn't, that didn't premiere that, that wasn't launched at Dark Horse, but, but they very well taken care of it from here on out, uh, Grendel is my, um, is my passing on the, on the torch. Okay. I'm, again, not surprised at all. Um, I am a little surprised. I'm the only, that my number one is, is acting, was not even on any, either of your lists. That, that is surprising to me. Um, um, but, um, my number one is Sin City. Uh, I, I, yeah, I, I, I, fucking love you guys know, I love Sin City. I think it is for me personally, and we talked

58:57about this when we did it deep dive on it. Like, to me, it's number one, perfect comics. And, uh, for new listeners, I don't mean like, it's the, the most perfect comic ever. I mean that like, there's a very small subset of the tens of thousands of comics I've read that I consider perfect comics, I think Sin City is part of that. Um, I also, for me personally think it's my favorite Frank Miller art. Like, I just think it's like, it, it, it just fills me with absolute all and joy every time I look at it. I probably reread it like four times, which again, you guys know, I'm not a huge, huge believer in rereading stuff generally, unless it's something that's an absolute favorite. Um, I think it's just an amazing, amazing, uh, work and, and regardless of, of whether or not you think it's Frank's best or third best or fifth best, it's still fucking hall of fame, not rush more stuff unless you're out of your mind. And, uh, I just fucking adore it. And, um, to me, like, when Frank goes off into the great beyond, I know he'll be most remembered for D.K.R. and obviously the Daredevil stuff's in the mix, but, but my favorite

1:00:00Frank thing is always going to be Sin City. And, uh, and there go. I had to be number one on my list. So I knew somebody was going to pick it. Um, it, it's, I, I do, I think it's a great series. Um, and the reason why it didn't make my top five is because compared to everything else on the list, I have, well, for the mass is just a real affinity for it, but everything else on my list has just been a lot more prolific. And, and, and that shouldn't be a deterrent or, or sort of, but, but yeah, when I think about what, what I've, what's brought me the most joy, what I've always enjoyed, what I, what I, and I, I bought, I, I, I've, I've, bind darkwurst presents when during that whole serial. And the, um, I got the, one of the first trades when they collected it all, um, and it's fallen apart, but it's, it's a, um, it's a great series.

1:01:00It, it should be on your list. It should be number one on your list. I, I absolutely get that. Um, but yeah, it, it, it just, it just missed making my list by, by, by this much. Sure. And it's crazy. I mean, it's actually crazy how much overlock we had collective because fucking darkwurst has got 40 years of, of heat. Like, we, we didn't, I mean, we didn't mention, I mean, hard boiled, uh, madman. I mean, madman was probably like number six on my, you know, like, um, my management, the goose price. You know, again, I'm not an air price. And then let's have fear agent. No, see, that was an easy one because, um, darkwurst only published, like, maybe a fifth of, of fear agent. It was, it went to image, it was image, then it went to darkwurst. Oh, that's right. That's right. I forgot. Yeah. Yeah. So that was actually an easy one. And again, I didn't include anything that started darkwurst. Yeah. So that's why I didn't have grant. I didn't consider grand on it. Consider soggy, even though they're absolutely worthy, worthy additions. But like, we didn't talk about the goon. Now, I'm not an Eric Palfan,

1:02:03like, who doesn't do it for me, but that is a beloved book by many. I mean, for some, for many people, I think including Felix is one of like, throw time favorite books. Um, we didn't talk about an umbrella academy, which again, I think is fantastic. Um, Harrow County 300, uh, empowered, which I think is, you know, probably like, doesn't get the, but I, I mean, I think it powered terrific, um, ghost. Oh, I have, I, you know, I have a comics greatest world. If we were going to 10, I would have had comics greatest world. I had nexus. Um, shout out to Tana. I, I had to put LaGuardia on there just because monkey me and an O'Brien roach mill. Um, the Martha Washington stories. You had the department H, um, the fifth beetle. Yeah. Shout out to my dad. Flaming character showed people's dark horse. They had a great call there. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, uh, next man. And then again, we, we, we really have given short shrift to the adaptations because so much of to like, like, I mean, um, we, we mentioned star, I mean, they've had, dark horse had the Star Wars

1:03:06license. Uh-huh. From 19, what, 89 until Marvel took it back. Like, I mean, they had it for 25 years and they put out thousands of Star Wars comics and they were good. A lot of them were good, man. Like, they're really good. Like, and if you think about like, and I know Star Wars nerds are going to be Star Wars nerds about like, what, what's in canon, what's not, et cetera, et cetera. But like, if you just like view all things Star Wars licensed as being part of canon, dark horse zones, I mean, dark horse has way more Star Wars canon than anybody else, right? Like, I mean, they, like, just in terms of volume, they have way more of it than anybody else combined. Um, um, um, you know, Conan, dark horse had some amazing runs on Conan. Um, Chan, Tarzan, uh, probably my favorite, um, license work, uh, or I should, I mean, it's hard to say, like, we're too old to say like the all time favorite, but like one of my favorite license, uh, works ever was, was, was

1:04:10dark horse's work on Buffy. I thought it was an incredible adaptation of, I mean, I read a good chunk of that. Firefly, uh, fire, yeah, well, I include, right, like all the, I mean, just, uh, all that weird stuff. Um, uh, you know, I, I wasn't as much like the, the, the, the manga stuff what didn't mean as much to me, but like, berserk and avatar, last airbender and local club were, were in our massive pieces of people's fandom. Um, uh, like, deeper cuts that mean a lot to me personally, the cosmic detective, uh, three story and department H like all Kent stuff, you know, Kent's done most of the stuff at dark horse. Um, and you can go on and on. I mean, there's, there's literally hundreds and hundreds of other things you could, you could highlight. It's, uh, it's just an incredible and incredible run. So salute. Yeah, they, they, they, they, uh, dark, dark stern, Mr. Monster, um, you got, uh, there was, um, in Boris the bear, which I talk about whenever I can't, yeah, it's wild. I mean, even if, because even if you go to, um,

1:05:15I mean, yeah, you can go to any, any site and just ask for a list of dark horse books and you'll get one, but even if you just go to dark horses site and go to their about page to find out about the company itself, they do have, they, they have a slew of titles up and down. Yeah, the sides of the history and at the band, and it's, it's, so you just look at that and just be like, yeah, okay, I read that, I read that, I read that. And, and it's just, yeah, they, they, they, I mean, we've, we talk about comics all the time. We, we, we talked about different publishers. We know publishers put out a lot of books, but I mean, it, it's amazing how many things that, the dark horse has put out that, that we've all read. I mean, I can't really say the same thing about only or vault or boom, but I mean, I can look at dark horses list and be like, yeah, no, I remember that. I remember seeing that. I read that and it, it's, yeah, that's a thing. I think that's well said. It's like, like, lots of other publishers have had absolute heat, but like, a small percentage of what they've put out is going to be memorable to me, like a decade later, you know? But here we are talking about that, like, like, dark horse has dozens of books that I

1:06:18not only read from them, but still recall vividly and hold the deer to me. And like, I think the only companies, and I know it's not a competition, but like the only companies I could say are in the same like stratosphere in that regard are Marvel DC, image, and phantographics. Like, that's it for me. Like, there's, like, there's no, those are the only four publishers that have had more collective meaning to me than dark horse. Like, we're as much. So I think the dark horse is the anti-marble. My criticism was the anti-sandly. If, if Marvel ever got their, their hooks into your rosky and mobius, and they did, at one time, Stan would be charmant from the rafters. And the greatest, just the greatest writer of all time beats the greatest artist of all time.

1:07:23And you need this. And my criticism was just like, yeah, we've published them. Right. They were darker. It was that thing. You know, like, under almost understood, where you don't, to his dashboard, I guess, because you don't get that today. It's either the greatest thing ever, or it's talked about, where Mike Richardson just frickin' publish it. Yep. Yeah. Well said. Yeah. There you go. Thanks, Mike. I help you get, again, we don't know the stipulations of the deal. I help you, uh, let's, uh, his feet, and does he wants to do? But they're at that, exactly. Well, yeah, whether that's Paul Skommisson, or not Paul Skommix, I'm not suggesting that all

1:08:30the artists and writers and different creative go with him, um, suggesting that he's happy. That's it. If this was a top 10, where would Berserk, would Berserk even be on your list, Vince? Oh, yeah. Yeah. It'd be up there. Berserk would be, uh, I don't know. I don't have to think about it. Ten is a lot harder than five. Yes, it is. You know, yeah. Berserk would be on there, um, cats would be on there. Uh, there'd be a ton of, of, uh, even Star Wars, what I've read of Star Wars stuff has been really good. Bro, like, a 90-year-old republic. Yeah, the way they expanded on it. I remember I've a lore. Yeah. Yeah. I bought, um, I remember I bought, uh,

1:09:31wasn't even that, uh, oh, my, uh, not my, uh, uh, low star, uh, my car. Oh, right. Yeah. Vince, right. Like, right, like, Volan star is the Texas one, right? Yeah, my car. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, my car. I remember buying the complete night to the old republic run from my car. I'm going to show it back in the day, like, and then hammering it and just fucking thought it was incredible. Like, thought it was great, man. Like, just, uh, like, uh, the whole thing just was like, like, yeah, Yandersma was like the art, like, like, it was on a lot of, like, I just thought it was great. Like, just so much goodness, man. So much goodness. Yes. Um, legends is even better. No, really good to. Yeah, for sure. Really good to. Yeah. Um, again, for a good dark horse. Yeah. For sure. And I would dare say, like, I've read more, I don't know if that's true. I was going to say I've read more Dark Horse Conan stories than Marvel. That's probably not true, but like, I've read a lot of Dark Horse Conan stories.

1:10:32No, I mean, the Conan, look, the Conan license is bounced around way more than some of these other. Yeah. I, I think the, the Conan would definitely make my top 10. But like, like, like, the Becky Cloon and stuff was all Dark Horse, right? Like, I mean, like, right. Yeah. And like, the, the Carlos manual stuff, right? Like, that was Dark Horse, I think. So like, yeah, like, I, I, I dug a lot of the modern Dark Horse, uh, when they had the Conan license, I think they did it justice too. Yeah. Uh, again, uh, and the fucking Simon, the fucking Simon's in, uh, alien John, like, I mean, that's, wasn't there like a, uh, wasn't there a, um, John Byrne did the aliens. What does Simon's do? Didn't he do an aliens? No, yeah, Simon. Well, Walt did like an adaptation, um, that I think was like a Marvel graphic novel, but I'm pretty sure Dark Horse was Marvel. Yeah. Yeah. Um, it's, cause it's all dark. The original, it, yeah, the original alien, uh, Simon's it did for Marvel. And then it was, I, oh, no, it was originally

1:11:36published in Heavy Metal. 1970. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I guess it was part of the world, or the Dark Horse. Yeah. As soon as I, I remember this from Dark Horse, but it was a heavy metal. So, okay. All right. But other way, like, again, like, like, like, like classic, classic stuff, man, I mean, um, uh, just, uh, yeah, salute, salute. That luch, regional class. Absolutely. So what else we got, fellas? Well, we know what we got it. Dap, we got it. Like, dude, I am, like, I've never, but I've never seen a psychiatrist or psychologist, never seen a counselor. Uh, don't be an asshole. And, uh, and, and, and again, and no disrespect to anyone who chooses into it. My, my, my, my, I guess some of this planning on being a psychiatrist. So, um, I just haven't done so. But, uh, after closing the book on beneath the trees where nobody sees where I just bring, I was like, Oh, Horvath has some shit going on.

1:12:40I was like, Horvath, who seems like a real mild, married, married, like, pleasant, dog, man, as dark-fucking issues, dude. Like, he has got some issues, dude. Like, yo, that, if, dude, that was the darkest fucking comic I've read in a while. That is, it was absolutely desolate. Like, it, what, like, like, it kept getting worse. I'm like, it's got to ease up, right? Yeah, we get lots of stories in comics with the anti-hero, right? Like, we love an anti-hero. Well, it just isn't general. We love anti-hero, right? We love Tony Ciprono. We love, you know, like, we love this, the assassin that you were for. Like, it's, it's, like, it is a classic storytelling trope. And, and hell, had a blector, like, we, we're, we're not even a first to rooting for a serial killer. But, like, this fucking sequel was fucking, bro, was like, let me literally burn things to the ground. Like, I, I was like, you have got it trolling me. Like, Samantha may be one of the most cold-blooded

1:13:48sociopaths I have ever read in a comic. And yet, it's a Richard scary bear. Like, it's fucking twisted on another level, dude. Like, this, this series bored me at first. Yeah, because it's like, okay, like, he had a really cool idea. We all were into it. We all go, like, understandably, like, dude has, you know, big commercial hits. So they say, do more. It's a comedy do more. And I was the first thing. I'm like, eh, like, you should have just done the one series because it was awesome. And like, now you're trying to go back to the world. But, like, I gotta say, by the end of this, I was like, okay, you did have something more to say. And you are fucking sick. You need help, dude. Like, you need to work through some issues. Or maybe this is you work through some issues. I need to, I don't want the issue came out this week. So I'm trying not to spoil anything. But I, I so wanted, as I'm reading it, I'm like, they're gonna stop her.

1:14:51She's going down. This is the whole, like, this is, this is too much. She's going to have to, someone's going to take her out. Maybe, maybe she's going to escape the basement before the building burns and, and, and she'll come back. But I like, every time I turn to page, it just, it keeps getting worse and more, more fires and more people and, and, and oh, here come, here's somebody's coming by just to talk to her for a second. Oh, shit, now they're on the floor because they've got a screwdriver in their neck. I just, I'm like, this is wild. This was as, as mellow. And like you said, as the series started. And I was just like, I'm not, I'm not really feeling it. Like, why is this six issues? This is going on a little long. And, and, and then we get here. And it just starts on page one. And it doesn't fucking stop. And we get to the end. The last two issues to be finished, like, fucking six were like, I was like, okay, like, I, normally, by, like, normally, I'm like, oh, man, like, this mini series went on for too long.

1:15:53I got to say, in this one, I was thinking that, but then five and six, I was like, I respect, like, okay, like, you, you got me. Because like, like, she, she is like one of the most sadistic cold-blooded people characters I've ever read in the comic. Like, it's, it's, it's, I mean, she is a pure, like, text book. No, I mean, it's a sociopath. She's super cold. Yeah, literally, like a, like, literally, like, literally, like, literally, like, like, does not care, and I Yoda about any other being on the planet, like, does not care. I was like, wow, like, wow, like, you, you're just getting it. Like, you're killing everybody. Like, you're literally just like, I'm gonna get you to, I'm gonna get you to, I'm gonna get you to, I'm like, oh, my god, like, fuck. And like, this bitch had the entire town wired with explosives. Because she knew some day she might have to escape. Like, what? Like, like, the chick is like,

1:16:53fucking next level sadist. I'm like, yo, all right, salute, salute, Horbath. Like, I, I did not think you had this in you. Like, I, like, respect. Like, I, that's all I gotta say. I'm freaking insane. It was crazy. It was crazy. It really was. Like, definitely, like, a lot of miniseries, I feel like, don't stick the landing. This one, this one, like, went from, like, eh, to, like, totally, like, okay, let's go. I'm gonna go, bro, like, respect. Like, you, all right, man, you had a plan. Then you execute, like, I got much love for it. He's like, oh, you thought this was boring at the start? I'm gonna show you. I mean, can I, I'm never going dinner with you. No, no, definitely not. I'm be like, no, I'm good, bro. Yeah. Oh, you're having sweet breads on the menu? No, that's all right. Or like, if he's like, yo, let me, uh, I'm a syndrome. I'm, I'm, let me get your address. So, of course, I'm a card list. I'll be like, no, I'm good. Really good. That's a cool pack. We're good. No, man. I don't celebrate this dog. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. These higher smoke rise community up in flames.

1:17:55Unbelievable. It's a fitting name. What the hell? Why not? Oh, my god. You know what else I like about it too? I did really get the sense that he was burning it down. Like, you're seeing, like, all right, I, I cashed in on the second go around. You know what I mean? Like, like, it wasn't like, like, it would be really hard for him to ever tell a story in this world again. Yeah. Yeah. And there's, I mean, there's, there's the possibility of maybe a one shot, but yeah, if this is where it ends, I mean, but yeah, like, I'm just saying, like, I felt like this is part of the plan was going to be like, okay, like, you guys go to me into doing more. And like, it made me happy now. You guys were into it. And like, but like, yeah, like, I hope now you're sad. Like, I don't care what you wish for. We're good. I'm going to, I'm going to make more context, but it's not going to be about this. Please, please don't make it about this. Oh, my god. Yeah. What's your events?

1:18:58It's thinking about all the joy. This immense is as virtue makes me glad you for it. But again, I was like pretty lukewarm on it. Like, like, forges in. I'm like, uh, yeah. Like, I got a feeling super super lit. And it was like, you know, everybody was like, you know, it was fuzzy. Everybody thought it was fun. Never like. And I was like, okay, like, and I can't, I wasn't even mad at them. I can't want them out mad at the guy. Like, like, you know, his first comic is this huge hit out of nowhere. And it's unique. And everybody's talking about it. So of course, he's going to go back to the, like, I would do the same thing. Like, why wouldn't you? It's changed to make money. But I was like, but it didn't land. And then I'll suddenly I'm like, I re I retrench. I retrench, sir. Your third act was fucking lit. So, and very dark, very, very dark. The human, as we were talking about the human condition, when we're talking about, like, Richard's scary looking bears and birds and stuff. But, yes, but the human condition, Horevath has got some really dark things to say about it. Yeah.

1:20:01But what do you have bright and light things to say about Vince? I don't know if they're bright and light, but they're things. The first thing about which you encounter this book is it's a slip case solution. You know I love a good slip case, A&M, beautifully designed by the out slip case is drawn by Stuart Kenneth Moore. Oh, it's our boy. Yeah, and the interior slip case, the cover of the actual book book book is drawn by Jerry

1:21:02Ordway. Yeah. And would it not stop it seriously, are you in the nuts? No, there's no, yeah, okay, there's, there's, it is Chester Gould's Dick Tracy, 1941. Oh, I was not expecting that, interesting, and yeah, Stuart Moore did a cover for, I mean, Kenneth Moore did a cover for Dick Tracy? He does the two way wrist TV, a handheld thing, and it's die cut, so it looks like a die cut. It looks like a five folder, and am I going to have to buy Dick Tracy, because I love a die cut. It is beautiful, and Ordway does Tracy and villains, and Chester Gould draws the sidebar

1:22:09of the nurse, and the mall, and the thugs, and that is a cool stuff. Yeah, and it's surprisingly cheap, it's, it's, David Mac does the back cover, I think the dots was chuping. If that was a four color process, the dots were a lot smaller. I don't love David Mac's beginning, but he did a decent job on the back cover. It's from Clipper Press, C-L-O-V-R, and I guess this is the first volume of their slip case Tracy's series, and they could have charged, I mean, from me, to say this, but they could charge more. It's only 30 bucks, well, it's the only 30 bucks.

1:23:10Yeah, after the discount, it's a lot cheaper, and it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, is, um, 60, 60, I'm just, yeah, I'm, I'm 60, and you get, you, you, you reach, be civil, yeah, your average Chester Gould takes on Tracy, whether it's, it's shootings, their stavings, their burnings, or the light chrysan, or, but, you know, people are dying all around him, and they look at Tracy like he's superhuman, like, oh, my God, it's Dix Tracy, it's only two, no, it's not, it's Dix Tracy, um, yeah, I guess it would be redundant to be labor, at the point, to say, it's Chester Gould drawing the, the, the

1:24:12character, um, and, and, and writing the character that, that made him house a name, but, uh, it's, flawless, literally, your mileage, Ray, Jason would probably, I think there's a 50, 50 chance to, that Jason would be, it's this properly not, but, uh, I, I love it. I, I, I think it's incredible, it, because it happens so fast, like, uh, Tracy's stuck in a snowstorm for a couple of weeks, and then catches the flu, he catches the flu, that's a major, uh, sub-lot, it catches the flu some time, and goes to a men's club, and go, and gets

1:25:17into another paper, because he's, he's imprisoned within the, uh, the, the, the, the, the, the, the sweat box, and as somebody dies, I, I won't, again, I won't spoil it. Somebody dies in the sweat box, and it leads into another story, like, almost immediately after the ending of the first story, and the ending of the first story is, is, uh, it's brutal. It, it, it, it, again, if it was published today, it couldn't be published today, because people would be up in arms. Not only does the, is the, the person like shot, uh, you know, it being green, sicks a doctor who treats, uh, on the lamb, I guess, perp-trish, um, and, and, and pays,

1:26:23legal representatives of, of the law, pays them off to help him in his, his flight. Like, that today would be unheard of. And here, you had it in a, a daily strip. It, uh, it just, um, it's amazing. The, they say that today is more open, um, honest time for creation. I disagree completely, where, um, that's what it was. You had people that would help the crux. You had people that would look the other way, and make some money of, um, of this misfortune, where, where today you have, it's, it's almost boring. You have strips that are just like,

1:27:26I feel that it's in many times. Like, it's not, it's not tracks, it's in me. Whether, yeah, just a good talent, like it is. And I love it, it's, I do. Whether it's the original incarnation from Chester Goode or the Mad Cave or the, you name it. I loved it, Tracy. Um, again, your mileage may vary because he'd be a little, Tracy could be a little cold. But the, the dudes are, uh, a perpetrator. Of course he can die. One die. He, uh, he could save his life. No, I'm not gonna do it because I'm takes racing. You know, uh, uh, it, it's amazing stuff. I had such a good time. And, and that's not all the, when I say the first

1:28:30story line, the first story line goes to like 10 pages. If that, you get, get the Sundays, you get the dealies, uh, then, um, it picks up immediately thereafter. It, it, you know, and lots into another shoreline and another one and another one. And it's just, Chester Goode, I haven't fun with the facial features. Cause that's basically, it's like this, the equivalent of the Star Trek nose. Right? Uh, you get to out, someone was an alien based on their, their nose in Star Trek. They're in those other fucking brow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's kind of what it's like in Dick Tracy, where, um, the, the, this person has to be a criminal because they look so weird. Yeah. They're so, they're so strange looking. They must be, uh, uh, uh, uh, our first

1:29:36story. That's, and sure, the in nine out 10 times the are, you know, but the, what brings them down in the, in the end, is it, is it their lust for money? Is it someone associated with the, the perpetrator? Is it Dick Tracy? But still, a lot of times, he, he, he, he, he takes the, the, the roses from the, the, the public as the one that brought the person out. But for the most part, he, he's not the person does it. It's a person associated with the perpetrator. Um, again, I, I have nothing, it's the most boring view ever because I have nothing bad to say about Chesterworld or Dick Tracy. Nothing. You could talk with art, the storyline, the, the, the, the,

1:30:41the composition, the, the way he spots blacks, uh, it's all perfect to my eyes. Again, the boring. I know. I, I, I agree. It's boring, but it's, it's the truth. It's, it's perfect comics. And I, I think that, um, I'm not speaking to Jason because I know, uh, this, and get, it's, it's no slight towards you. I know you're not going down, down to this. Yeah, to happen in the hand, maybe. I used to read Dick Tracy in the strip every day when my father would bring the paper home. Yeah, I think, I think gold isn't an amazing illustrator. Um, whether, uh, it doesn't matter whether it's, uh, two gun or physics or is there the boring stuff

1:31:44where Tracy's just stuck in the path or the chief, like, how boring can you pay? But at cool to hand, it's amazing stuff. Like I could read it forever and never get tired of it. And I'm glad that Clover Press has launched the series because it gives me something again to spend my money on. Um, Clover Press is also, uh, I did not get it yet. I will. Well, it's also launching an amazing Spider-Man daily collection. Uh, I believe it stands for other Larry. So at art, so, um, you get stand for writing it, Larry, we're drawing it and it's amazing Spider-Man. And it looks like we're gonna shoot the, um, it looks like Vermita.

1:32:46It's one drawing, but it's not. I don't think. I think it's, it's, it's literally where dead Clover Press is also doing that. It's like keep your eye on Clover Press because they're doing good things. Yeah, you're not wrong. Yeah. Um, I know the, uh, the, the Spider-Man collection was, um, was a Kickstarter, but yeah, it was, it was nice to see it. I ended up talking to myself out of it. I, I was tempted, um, because it is only like four volumes or something, but, uh, I, I do like, I do like what Clover's doing because they've got all the art books too now. They've got, um, they've, they've got one on, um, DNA. They've got one on, uh, why not? They've got one on David Mack, but they've been putting out some really good art books lately. Um, they did some stuff. Yeah, I'm, I'm impressed with Clover. And they gave us Artillery in the Pirates. They did. And, and I have to,

1:33:53guides that, um, claim that, oh, it's roughly cheap. And it's like 180 bucks. It's a, what? 180 dollars. Uh, I could buy, well, wow, I think that's not a thing. I'll check it by for 180 dollars. That's why I don't own many arts editions. I got to say, I think they're too expensive. Like 180 bucks. That's crazy talk. Agreed to disagree. Yeah, well, great. Uh, you do you, but I think that if I could get 10 bucks, I've digged Tracy, drawn by Chester Gold, but the same price as one edition of, I don't know, four and a half minutes. Like, I'd like his work. Uh, like, again, I'm going more and more,

1:34:56more fond of, I mean, it says work. It's still only one, but I'm sure he feels very gratified at your approval. Yeah. Sure. But again, it's just a matter of, of, um, logistics, whether it's, it's 10 Chester Gold, which is perfection in car name, or it's one art edition. Like, I think the, the, the choice is clear, but you should, you, you'd sign ice running your money. You know, um, for me, there is no better than Dick Tracy, Chester Gold, Club Repress. 1941, 42 and 43 have, are you been solicited? 42 is on the books 43. Maybe,

1:36:00maybe, maybe you may be able to add it to your order, um, presently. So do so. It doesn't get any better than this. Can't get better. It's not get better. It doesn't, it doesn't. It's, you're joking. Of course, but in my way, it does not get better. It's pretty much the, up there with the bus. Yeah, the best. I love it. Totally. Some case that could cover beautiful cover art. Like, uh, extremely beautiful, each year is what's not to love? Toast macos. Yeah. Yeah. What's not to love? Yeah, she, you know, yeah, you're joking, but you're speaking my

1:37:06language. That, that's me. It is amazing. I'm going to tell you down. I'm coming around that bend. And I'm bringing two for two guns. And you really, really cheap one in, in, uh, um, because the, the sensors didn't permit, you know, um, it doesn't, don't tease me thing. That's just like with Amperella. Like, show me the nakedness. Show me the fucking. I don't, I don't, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Vampirell should never, ever, ever be naked. No, I know where you stand. That's why I don't like that. Yeah. Again, it's just a matter of taste, but they're, that there were, I think there were, there was one issue in particular, but there was one or two issues where Vampirell was totally naked. And I would tell you, hmm, like, no, you know,

1:38:13no, but I prefer the sizzle to the, the steak every time. I'm all about that. Roastman, if all you, if you do, again, oh, oh, yeah, you know, you know, there are millions of comics out there that, that do have the steak. So the fact that Vampirell should have steak is, it's kind of, oh, it should be what she is. It just doesn't appeal to me as a result of that. That's fine. Yeah. Show me in shadow or, or, or, or, or three quarters perspective, whether, just don't understand how an alien sexy succubus wouldn't be fucking that's all. I don't, those make sense. It's a conversation for a much longer episode,

1:39:18for the Roastman. There's been to be like, I'm tired of you. Can we move on? No, of course not. Um, again, there are places to go, thanks to C, that don't leave much to be an imagination. Yeah, you know, I think that Braille is not one of them. I get it. I get it. Yeah. Especially, you got something like Druna out there. So I mean, you can see it all there. Yeah, or Pillow fight. I'll be it carefully positioned. Yeah, Druna was censored as well. In their, Druna's mad, mad, mad, mad, hard. You see Shaft in, in, in, in plus repeatedly. In the original Druna, the, the, um, pace of boders, position, the dialogue balloons, and the, uh, the narration captions. Right. We were gifted with, we were gifted with the

1:40:22answer. Oh, yeah. If you wanted to go that route, you could, but the original was censored. And, um, I prefer the original. If I, one of your first vince's chased everybody. Now, if, again, if I want to see the original, I could see it. And it, it, it doesn't, it had to experience for me at all that I get to see all of it. You know, it, it, it wasn't, and he had, and they're not great stories. That guy could draw, they're not, that guy could draw a crazy, um, and, and that's what I'm here for. It's the drawing. Now, you can make, you can argue to the point that, well, is it the peanuts and the vagina, uh, him drawing? Yes.

1:41:23It is. I just don't need to say it all. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm all enough to know. Thank you. But make it a, hey, questionably aged, uh, manga character, and you're all about, you're all about those freaky as we can get it. Yeah. It's funny. It's funny how we all have, uh, again, like, we all have pretend, but I'm with you. Like, as you know, when, when I randomly get domino conditions where someone like draws over the titties, I'm, what the fuck are you doing? Like, that's not my girl. My girl should not be dressed like that. Like, she should be chased and completely caught. Exactly. I get it again, and it's, it's, it's. Droona should be getting plowed. Like, that's the purpose of droona. Like, droona is, the whole comic is droona having sex with different creeps. Right. Right.

1:42:28Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. The whole point, like, the last few monorah books by You know, I've been his non-poor stuff and they're like, they're okay Monara porn comics are way better. It's his way better. He's just to have one fun with him like I agree. I agree. Yeah. Yeah But my little Monara is an impeccable dress Absolutely. Oh no doubt. Yeah, of course. Of course So where where they choose is to draw porn or or not is Beside the point the point being the guy can draw. He very much had yes. Yeah, that is true. That is true What else did you get people? Yeah, they come What else we got?

1:43:28The the because Vince got me to read it And it it wrapped up a little while ago because it it Let into KO number four, but DC KO night fight. Oh was a Was a really really entertaining mini series and and even though it does tie into KO, which I'm not gonna talk about The fourth issue in particular because every every issue was Bruce dealing with What the What the box was trying to show him As far as alternate futures and and so he had to he had to in in the first issue He was dealing with the diggerason who has now bat is now batman and has an army of robins the second issue he was dealing with Jason Todd and in the the third issue and Well and the fourth

1:44:29He is in a Reality in a future where Everything's pretty much nice and chill. Gotham is is clean. It's it's it's the one where where Damien is batman and everything is Titan right plays looks great and Everybody just looks happy and content and Damien has a son named Alfred So Bruce is like, holy shit, I'm a grandfather and and it's just it's it's a really It's Bruce dealing with the idea that There's no need for a batman that is no need for him to be batman and he and and with his grandson and his family intact He doesn't he doesn't want to leave this place, but But the art of apocalypse of course is like yeah, no that that's the way we're doing this so He he has to he ends up fighting he takes on Damien one-on-one

1:45:34But he he can't Beat Damien even though he has in the past and Damien's like yeah, well that was a boy And he's like yeah, well that boys know it all attitude was a superpower and he came pretty close to kick in my ass a couple times, but This was You you you had them fighting for a couple of pages and And then the The the heart was never going to Even if even if Bruce did not want to leave if he did everything in his power to not leave this reality The this world still would have been destroyed But but the whole the the batman Past you want to call it that the final test And then it leads into the fourth issue and then I know I think we just had the fifth or six issues just come out, but Yeah, yeah, okay, and with that pretty sweet Ian Bertram dark side variant that I saw but the I did this this was this was just this

1:46:38This fourth issue I think was the best one out of the four I Dan Moore was also He he kind of especially Alfred Alfie he He ended up the the manga aspects of it because I was got the big ol' eyes. He and Grandpa were watching Dragon Ball Z It was it was very It was a It's not a rougher style. It was a looser style than than I'm used to seeing from Dan and But that also worked with some of the more manga anime type aspects of the art on on some of the pages But this was this was solid. I really I mean, I got to go back and and read for I got to get caught up on K.O. Because even even boss battle I I want to read boss battle because of every character That's in that because Samantha from beneath the trees is in that issue and you've got so many other

1:47:41Independent characters In this issue fighting DC characters, but But no this this I've been I've been sitting on this for a while because they said it came out a while ago Just didn't get a chance to to catch up on it, but um Yeah, I even even without the connection to K.O. Just just reading this Batman story and him dealing with his sons Because I'm gonna call Dick and Jason's sons as well the This was this was a fun many series and and because it's more it looks absolutely amazing But yeah, they there was it was a good creative team and and Joshua Emson was was the writer, but yeah, I Even the first page it's it's drawn it's drawn by Alfred age six my daddy is a hero my daddy is my hero and it's it's basically It's a really crammed version of of Damien's origin and And it's it's cute, but no it was it was a fun issue. I thought I thought the miniseries as a whole was was pretty because I wasn't

1:48:47Obviously, I mean Batman gets taken out in the first issue of K.O. And it's like well who the how how you why would you do that? It's Batman, but of course obviously it was because they could give him a force you fucking miniseries where you could have a side quest before that fight But but it was still it wasn't it it didn't read to me like like a cash grab which was like Hey, here's more ways to get money out of you and because you're gonna be a bad. I mean it was it was very was yes That is what it is that that I understand that that's exactly But it didn't as I'm reading it. I didn't feel like I was getting taken advantage of so It was I thought the fourth issue really Really made the the miniseries worthwhile nothing else it screams of the fever Implicit in the communist industry because DC has their own thing going on with K.O. and all the associated miniseries and tie-ins and blah blah blah

1:49:57but it never ceases to amaze me the speed at which the theory continues because Over it's jump to you know to put a a fine point on it IDW is doing the exact same thing with the turtle characters at at That DC's doing with with the kale and and and normalize their thing too where it's a Marvel character fighting Another character whether it's a Marvel House favorite or with it an independent Character it never ceases to amaze me how quickly a Company with swiping idea from another publisher

1:51:00Like it's not even at this point. It's not even delivering the point. They're just taking it IGW is just taking the idea from DC and it's not a novel concept to forget it's been done before but um It's something sells Chances are very very very good that there will be another company that does the same exact or much Similar very similar idea at their publisher and it's like When we're gonna speak up You know I can you don't have to buy it don't but

1:52:01the the Anybody can look at it and think Well, that's just a dishy DC kale and knockoff Like I don't know man like DC kale was a knockoff of a knockoff Again, yeah just the champions like it is he's right. I mean, I'll be honest. I mean to me You guys started my DCK on my deck just goes like it's like oh my like it's it's it's literally like you don't That's what it says. It's a shit. Oh, what's I mean it's like it's yeah, I like I think everything I hate that comics. Yeah, it's literally everything in that comic book again. Yeah, I too But it's it's just it's very frustrating and and um We're dealing to me that an IP will get Quelled because it sucks moving some copies They're not losing money on um

1:53:03At the different culture Whatever I you're monitoring me very but um We see that happen every day and we don't Do oh well, but just how it is, you know, that's the nature of the peace the A company it's gonna take um and a service IP and and we do it because it's making money. Yeah, probably um It's gonna make his money probably not but um I can't you won't Chits are very good you won't lose money on the you know but Wouldn't we kind of Like this battle like this thing one don't kind of say like enough to know listen expecting marvel and DC to give you new ideas

1:54:08Expecting to bang your head against the wall knock at a concussion. I can't yeah if you want new ideas like To talk about other publishers, which we do I'm just saying but like None of us should be reading in 2026 marvel and DC expecting to be blown away by no idea like that. He's not what they're about And again, we've been looking I mean like I mean we've been glazing DC for almost two years now like absolute fucking firing again like That I'm so I'm not like hate. I'm just saying but like I don't Ever pick up one of those two logos and think Are it surprised me give me something I've never seen like if that's not what it's about right It's more about like comfort food like give me something I'm very comfortable with in a cool way That's more what I'm like right, right, you know I and again the books are not cheap. They're five bucks in pace You know The yeah that sheep In comparison to a graphic novel or uh, uh, you know A slipkiss edition

1:55:09But I consider five bucks to be high-end If every damn good to be five bucks in issue That's why I'm not reading a lot of the big two because five bucks is is I think Ridiculous I recently read read read then no Miniseries Uh, I think I think tourists use Because I know absolutely nothing of the character and um Knowledge basically death or or or or or how Be like it Seeks the void not existence Would be much more preferable if everything around it died and um

1:56:11seeks to make that happen and it's just like okay, so This is the character that That is so revolutionary like What would you what do you talk about it? It's been done for eight for decades In another characters but it's said in a way That oh, it's a god of the semblance and it it's it's it's seeks to To nullify null nullify existence like So what It's searching for a spear of it's it's arch nemesis the the the It slots you'll base character that That is it's it's a tithesis and it's just like well, yeah, we found this I mean time and and and in putting the Thanos as the big bad

1:57:19Absolutely Further emphasizes the fact that this is not a new idea It's not but for some reason This character has as I'll be it more so then than now as as on on Right I said I think segment does a beautiful job Um, I also read the Marvel tales vision of um Which equals this use of venom and blah blah blah and uh But it's nothing do It isn't It's just the same multi-mold repackage in different format like you said Reach that but that's a sad make it not good. No, it makes it good But it's it's not relationary good. It's not

1:58:24So different that that oh my god They they put comics up on a on a um a lift and are submitting the guts and decide that this will work really really well It yeah better people than yourself. I've tried it and um Done the same thing So you Not the first buddy And I'm certainly won't be the last But Did I have a good time with it? Yeah Sure I a decent time with the arts good The sword line I forget the word um the sword line It's decent enough where yeah, we kept it reading but relishing No, I don't think so And I think we're like she said

1:59:27So uh pointly and succinctly I think we're past that I think it's it's a it's a point of um what gives us joy and and what doesn't If not the joy then keep reading it for sure Yeah Absolutely take up. Huh there you go I'm looking at the clock and that's hard to remember when you start Uh, we're two arms into it, right? Yes, sir. Yes Um, let's bring it on. Oh Okay Yeah, um, please leave it some review Whether you uh Where do you listen? That's the uh whether it's a star review or after I actually type words Leave some reviews somewhere

2:00:27Um, it thank you. It doesn't have to be Glowing and it's something that that Unfortunately Matters these days The algorithm controls everything Uh, I'm for like I said, I'm savior It uh, yeah, it's such as it is um It please Don't pay retail For your your favorite ocean's Ditions or manga or treat paper acts or finest or or epic collections go to sheepbreathschnels.com Because state gives you everything that you buy That isn't a floppy And a lot that is Uh, for lesson retail far less for you cheap graphic novels.com and Again check out a patreon two two cheers very simple five dollar ten dollar we we we have got the trim the fat

2:01:37Um, and and may accessible to everyone um patreon.com foretouch 11 o'clock comics check it out in travels This I realized this is a big ask Because this uh came up in 1991 Back back backwards Jason was uh was still full in yellow bro. I was in high school. I was in junior high I was a junior in high school relax This is is is uh number two A published at eight ninety five patreon It's four hundred and two pages Yeah, this is gauntlet number two Exploring the limits of free expression

2:02:41And uh, it is the Stephen King special Uh This one of Satan Considering it stands. I guess the stand came out and uh, excuse me, truncated to form The steve came south decided that The stand should be close to four hundred pages shorter because uh There were certain things the market could bear and pressing it as a I don't even know how many pages it was. Let's just say a nine hundred pages uh A thousand pages For examont values with far preferable Then published a fifteen hundred

2:03:42page work Banking the day. So it was published as a Truncated version first and later it was published as an expert Tated version and The Person who wrote this what colleagues It prefers the latter And it'll tell you why News and King buying with a fear of ours guide Stephen King collectibles Civilians beings artistic influences Archive King with Ansgar the first image is by Alan summa And I went out with the sister

2:04:46Yeah No Yeah What you get you get news you get Inference on the mpa you get two-life crew um A group of rebabbers in here um Such a ship and the visual arts It's some debates some fiction some some Other stuff, but this is a comics Podcast so um you do get a section and comics as well And it has an interview with arts pick of them I guess when when um oh yeah

2:05:46When when brought you uh Number five. I believe in number five The my answer work is this is what it's um um Well see you soon so um Pardon me You do get an interview with arts bring them in where he um Approached the publication of raw In in a novel way where the uh extreme penises which he Abruptes which he considers boring And old that and I can agree if them in the most part um he he self-sensored them Instead of um

2:06:48Publishing in the work with the wrecked penises he published the work In world number five with uh boxes Covering the work penises So he's saying something he says he's saying like um we want to thank the Distributors and the retailers who are far more at risk to be um um The target of censorship laws than the actual publisher of the book And I grew that and I don't agree that back grew that more um where I think it's a novel idea That it does make the the the work sent out as as It's so bad out there that self-sensorship. It's preferable

2:07:55To releasing this work pristine And that's a lot like how bad was it in in 1991 We're pretty bad dude. Yeah, we're a publisher. I had had a Um think about waiting a minute We're getting out of this we don't be worried about But the people that salary issue they do I have something to add risk um In the addition of that Do you get uh Kevin Halton Which uh that who does an article called comics new adult art form It's the same old same old Like fast uh push the boundaries of what can be shown in comic books

2:08:57Tempestial and art um And it's pretty shocking But it's not it's potty bagged and was labeled as as as extremely graphic in In rep Didn't have anything to worry about either you get um hot box The long time the wrong place which has a story of rape Which uh the tables are turned on the attackers And the censorship that um A rose that would the blatant cries of garbage Among other things that um Arrows from that you get um steepest that No stranger comics pubs no stranger to

2:10:01uh Tebo Teaves a word Um that it is expected of a It comics uh looking at the fluturifying of evidence Uh f u l c i and they spelled it wrong here Um and rest of the does and uh original strip Called behind and behind so it's addition to getting Sims gang and and uh news and uh Again and exploring the limits of free expression Is a massive issue um there's some comics and um Admittedly not finished with it uh it's one of the gala issues that you didn't have I built at 20 some issues um

2:11:01I got this on eBay That uh it Bring it today Makes me both extremely uh Wish That it was 1991 again and glad that it's not But anyone was a good year My paint pan was strong The concessions all about Is it And now all the one star room story means Uh, I guess so I guess so Uh Yeah And something about Art and the self-sensorship Of a same really speaks to me Um And multiple of us again

2:12:04We can talk about this At con or at You wouldn't work together Well Much Much Deeper than we can show but um The fact that you had a publisher Seeking to minimize the effects of Publishing something speaks to me on at so many levels that um Because You have your publisher that cares And you have your publisher that doesn't care And you have a million variations in between the two Um some care of a certain point Like, well, you know, you bought it It's it's on you And now it's not only on On me

2:13:04It's on the person that sold it to me Right Now looking at this stuff It's like This is what they were in sense about It's not even Well in in the case of there were The pants It's very explosive But in the rape It's it's really not that Explicit But It's devastating The outcome of the story Where I want to spoil it because they reprint it It's exactly as printed in this issue Um Why was calling it Not a target Maybe there were No one else Uh but anyway Call it number two

2:14:04The Stephen King special Uh He's filling me with with much joy And and a whole lot of Trapidation because I think we're heading there By March uh more and more every day Yeah I was going to say there's still limited quantities Left you can get this issue for a hundred bucks but The company's website is an AOL address So I mean I did sure if they were around I did not pay that No no I paid 15 bucks and change For uh 895 shipping was either Minimal or free Yeah, I did did not pay I again, I'm what's out looking for a precinct copy

2:15:10so And back up he's not It's it's it's a very fine plus at the most I mean, he's these pro and condobates Some say I'm laws and publishing the names for victims. It's it's it should should should should should Women's name Names be published I don't know. No, I don't know. Not the victim. No, it's it's not anyone's business Right, you know the the rapists. Yes. Yeah, 100% yeah Um, I didn't get to that Peace yet, but I'm not Got a cruise to look forward to so Yeah, that's for some nice light reading on a cruise. Yeah, very light. It's like but it's harrowing because it

2:16:11It's censorship of any kind Um, I'm easily my my hacks of hackles are raised. Yep. It's about where it's like and no censorship is wrong Then again, you get the names of rape victims and it's like oh, but In this case, I would say a censor the names. Well then you you're uh, educated censorship and and you're not wrong so What's to say but if if the names are never released That's not being censored if you release the names and then take them back You redact them that's censoring but understanding that they're victims And then if the names are never released until And even in in in a private setting in in in a closed courtroom if they have to face

2:17:14Their their attacker That's one thing that's but that's also that's a closed session. I don't I if if the names are never released You're not censoring anything That's the way I look at it, but but once I understand but you you did rape somebody yes And and therefore you And you have you you have the right to to face your accuser, but that's you have the right to face your accuser I don't have a right to know Right Yeah, the person who's doing the accusing But in in in in retrospect it becomes a faceless entity Like you raped somebody okay That that that Effect him is a thingy feeling a person whether They exist as a

2:18:15Uh, a fault, you know Excuse me, a flescious entity or are they actually have a name that's where the problem rises And that does it do any good to publish the name? I don't know I don't know I It's actually don't think it's anybody's business, but in the other hand it makes the the act all that more real I think I said I have not read it yet So we'll take yours okay Yeah, all right I mean I choose this is a very good My opinion on it will not change. I do not believe That it doesn't any good To pin point the person being raped

2:19:18Bolsae Bolsae Hi in your travels um the last chapter of um I don't know if I can call it the first arc because they'll be back in a couple months with number seven But escape number six. I'm not going to go too deep into it just um Just to save it looking in your travels right um It's uh it's it's I wasn't sure how Milton was going to Pull off what he's attempting to pull off uh when I got to the end of the fifth issue um But Milton is is face to face with um with With the person who uh Well There's an interrogation and uh and and it doesn't it doesn't look good for Milton

2:20:21uh But things do kind of have a way of uh of working out for our hero it seems But this was uh this is like I said it's it's um I believe the trade has been solicited if I'm a majority has been so uh if you weren't reading this um Now you'll be able to get those six issues but uh This was um I yeah, I'm still talking about it. You know, they're more time comic, but yeah escape number six uh by recommender They know kuna. It's um it it's there's some fantastic panels. I mean that's for nothing but there he There are some some pages and some panels in the six issue that just look absolutely amazing. There's uh Just some explosions. There's some quiet moments. It's it's it's I mean these six issues have been Extremely well-paced well thought out not that that she's prize anybody, but I mean from From the opening salvo and series started and then uh the the quiet moments while Milton's trying to recuperate and and a kind stranger took him in

2:21:24um and then leading up to this it's it's been it's been a roller coaster um But uh but yeah I'm looking forward to picking it up again when um When it returns, but yeah in your travels check out escape word up uh and keeping with our dark horse theme tonight um Uh, my inner travels is a book that actually doesn't come out until next week So it's embargoed so I I wanted to I couldn't get into the plot with y'all But I want you to Make sure you do pick this up if it wasn't already on your radar Uh because it's a book that's near and dear to my heart on many levels and that is kaito 84 Which again comes out next week by dark horse kaito 84 is a Usagi o'jimbo story, but the significance here is that it is the first ever Usagi story that is not written by Stan Sekai. Yes, the first ever

2:22:25And it is written by my friend Zach Rosenberg One of the one of the founding partners of the artist bullpen Art collective known Zach for god probably 15 years now And I remember at heroes last year Zach pulling me aside and saying Woodrow You're not gonna believe this, but I just had a meeting and I'm gonna write a Usagi comic and I thought he was like Out of his mind. I'm like, oh, yeah, okay, dude sure. Yeah Um, but sure enough. It's actually happened uh Zach is writing it and Jared Colum who is one bullpen is drawing it and this is just one of those wonderful things of like fan-fick passion turned into reality because Jared who's art I love does these amazing uh watercolor paintings and commissions he many he's done many many watercolor paintings featuring Usagi It's kind of something he's known for just because he loves the character and uh and basically Zach pitched Stan um and and dark horse the idea of Jared's

2:23:28showing Jared's work and saying hey imagine if if Jared actually could do Usagi for real for real and and that's what kaito 84 is kaito 84 is a story of an and uh a modern day relative you know a generational uh successor of of the of the main Usagi uh in set 1984 Tokyo and uh it's fantastic. It looks great. It reads fun it's uh it's wonderful and uh I highly highly recommend it both for the art and the story so please do check out uh next week not this week next week kaito 84 uh it's a five issue miniseries by dark course written by Zach Rosenberg and beautifully painted by Jared Colum nice nice all that stuff uh do do do do diligence because he loves it and second night all right

2:24:34haha day uh one more time with the hell all right keep my shorts david you're good night I Was great. What we can do as in the sound part Yes, do it I Look free Joe Delph David I Guess who gives yeah, yeah, why not? Yeah, but we're the pretenders members good like it. Yeah, free show shelf Yeah I will love you so much come back next time so much We'll miss you next week Vince I'm sure you will Big fat

2:25:37Don't get lost at see bro Nah Enjoy the comedy there was a good comedy on on on cruises after like None of jazz from my liking. I'm not surprised That's it. They do have a lot of comedy, but What they have is is I'll be honest not very good Well, I've only been on one cruise probably only cruise will ever be on Hello Hello, yeah Oh, that was it. I said I Probably the inlet cruise you've been on Yes, and I enjoyed the comedy. Yeah, well, that's it for that one