10 KILLER Photography questions!

0:00Nick you know when the camera my factories come out with new firmware like Sony and Fujifilm up to do on a regular basis Do you normally update the firmware straightaway or do you hang on a bit? I hang on a bit normally for a few years because I think you'd have to be in the idiot to do it just before a pressing Need or anything like that. Why why'd you ask? Well, you're talking to DD to the room there really that's exactly what I did before we Started recording this podcast not camera So I have a roadcaster to which I use for for podcasting and it said the firmware is you for updating so I said Yeah, why not and then I've just spent the last half hour trying to make it work again It wouldn't come on. We kept saying power supplies are wrong power supply So if you're listening to your road sort it out. Yeah, not not not a good idea Just right to compensate me for my time of just sitting here waiting for you to keep rebooting and that kind of thing I look forward to your your claim on that. Yeah, good luck on that one. Yeah. Yeah, multinational Australia company. Yeah, we're only kidding road. We love your products We both use road bikes and road headphones and everything else if you want to sponsor us We're we're very open to doing so as well. So how are things? Yeah, good. Yeah, very good

1:01Yeah, back refreshed from a holiday although we did end up buying trying to buy and sell the house boss We're away. So that was fun I didn't know in holiday, but it is easier when you do all that with some cock the free cocktails in your heart and I'm gonna yeah, yeah, I think I could cope with that as well. Should we start the show? Let's do it You're listening to the photography pod a show for both working professionals and enthusiast photographers alike and here's your hosts Steve Vaughn and Nick Church So again welcome to the photographer with me Steve Vaughn and me Nick Church So we were we've been traveling a lot in the last couple of weeks. So you've been away in holiday. Where did he go? Went to Antigua, which was beautiful. Yeah dawn dawn's family or her family's from there Her brother still lives over there. So we called up with him and yeah, it's nice. It really really beautiful place

2:02I'm pretending not to be jealous right now. Yeah. Yeah, I'm saying not to be jealous Well, the worst bit. I'd say the worst bit was the flight coming back. You know the jet lag direction. Yeah, and horrible Do you know what flights? Should I think if I ran a flight company or an online company First I take off is the reclining seat option because it's just there's no need There's no really it's just impacting someone's life behind you So this girl in front of me came right back and it was quite small anyway. It's a virgin Atlantic I don't buy a segment for a gym because I don't think they're gonna sponsor a podcast Funny enough now and it was pretty small anyway. So I've got I seem to have long legs from hip to knee Yeah, I'm six foot, but but just it all seems to be in that thing So my knees were already jammed against the seat in front and then this girl kept pushing back So I was pushing forwards. I'll be ended up in about a two-hour battle of kind of me pushing forward. It's her pushing back They're in her family. They know mom and you know, I say girl. She was about sort of 20 But her mom then they both started having to go at me So it's not quite an air-region student, but it wouldn't have been far off

3:04You know, I do the same thing. Yeah, it's nearly I can always go and take because she and my women economy class here I'm nearly always the first person has that round different to me and you say we're tall You know, you're trying to eat you dinner in about sort of a three-millimeter space, aren't you? And then it's right for you and you try and get up and go to the loo and yeah, you can't when you don't Yeah, I agree come the revolution. You can't even get sometimes get the champagne flute to your mouth Oh, yeah, you know, that's terrible That's the ultimate ultimate sort really isn't it really sir? I've been on me travels as well So I've been in the last couple weeks to both Paris and Amsterdam with my sales training business that I Increasingly focus on these days, and that was nice. It was on the Eurostyle actually have to say and then it was it wasn't business class But it was like the one up from the The sort of standard class so you do get like a little meal and drink it was nice. Yeah, I mean, I'm sitting down on the Eurostyle's four and a half hours When you think to fly there is only like an hour, but then you're going to drive to the airport Mess about the airport for a couple of hours. Yeah pay a fortune to park the car

4:05It was actually really quite nice because I could sit and work and do stuff on the way So we're and I'm off to Singapore on the Sunday shooting the warders and get worse in the Middle East What a jet satter. Oh, we know. It's my last one though. We're privileged to be in company of effectively, you know Needle musk type character. I don't know about that. Yeah, I don't know about that. It's nice when the customer's paying for it I don't have I do have a couple days to hang out in Chinatown. I do a bit of photography as well Yeah, looking forward to that. What camera are you taking? That's a really good question We could do the whole show on that really probably a seven c two. I think yeah, and the 40 mil Do you mean sams a seven c? No, don't mind. Well, it's your business. Yeah, the sams is the future facts 100. Yeah, yeah, I just Just fancy taking the Sony, but probably just the 40 mil. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a focal length Yeah, it's a nice lens nice the little stubby gel entry spoke about those before. They're really nice lenses So yeah, I think I'll probably go with that and of course next time we do the part I'll tell you I probably took a rock sack for the gear But there we go So because we've been so busy dear listener

5:06We were kind of struggling what to do for the show today in terms of how to entertain your earholes and your eyes if you're watching us as well So I'm going to do a collection of songs So Cune Nick on the guitar requests. Yeah, yeah, no, we're not doing that. You're policing though Um, what we do is what what what people increasingly do these days when they don't know what to do about something on the needed idea We asked chat GPT I said to chat GPT we host the photography pod. We're looking for a good sort of spiky theme for the podcast and it came up with tend controversial photography takes So that's what we're going to talk about for the next Next 45 minutes or so and we don't mind the environmental impact for using chat GPT for this It is constructive and creative absolutely and it isn't us creating Characters of ourselves. No, another another dimwitted I'm a walking caricature

6:14So yes, are we bare no responsibility for these topics, but I think we are interesting topics to curve to say good set topics I think they're wide-ranging and I think if we had completely lied about it and said we'd thought for a few hours about Let's get some really good questions to get I think it wouldn't have been far difference You probably wouldn't do that. Yeah, so so let's get's get going So the first one is and I really like this one controversial photography take number one most photographers would improve more by studying art than buying gear Disgust mr. Nick Church Yes, that's good good one. I think I would agree with that I think there's because if you consider an artist then it's equivalent to saying Once you've got your paints and your brushes that you're pretty much all the way there and in fact that's not the bit It's all is it you you can use anything to do what with this it's I'm sure if you're listening You're you're a accomplished artist that use a high quality grade brushes of paint. You might differ of that Well, what but what I mean is you can use your fingers you can use any form of medium to do your art And so I don't think it is the most important thing. I think having thinking about

7:17light and form and structure and composition all those things which you can do Even without a camera in your hand you can just be looking as you're walking around thinking well that looks really cool And those skills then really build up and that's the thing that when you do get your iPhone If it's an iPhone you've got a new you do start to get much better photos than if you you know If you hadn't thought about that and just get your iPhone out and look around to see what's take it's going to be a bit disappointing Interesting. I mean, I'm I'm It was crap at art at school. I still have I couldn't I couldn't draw a stick man probably I'm a scientist my background. I got into into photography for the technical aspect my wife Samantha The other half of San Francisco photography is an artist. She draws very well She paints animals and things not actually paints the animal when she paints pictures of that Yeah, because that's that's found upon these days isn't it to go into this really? Yeah, I'm sorry Dash and they were up to paint over it. Yeah, but she's gone far better I for things than I will ever have she'll compositionally see things at weddings that I would never see Sometimes you might get the exposure wrong, but that's fixable It's something that the the So it's like that. Yeah gone the photographer released online courses has this underpinning elements really that

8:21The thing that makes great photography is all those things it isn't just kit and getting your exposure settings great Because those things are really easily fixed Because it's it's just learning stuff and seeing things and thinking like a photographer an artist is something There's a bit harder to to teach and so that with that course I do try and do both of those so you end up with all those technical skills But also some of the tips and tricks that all us for professional photographers used to capture those scenes Yeah, in photos And if you need to the podcast by the way next talking about his academy, which we all say more about during during this podcast It says here's an idea for instance. You should go to more museums in YouTube And now I'm a YouTube addict I spend way too much time on YouTube But I think that's a great point actually and there's a Joel Merrill, which has got an exhibition coming up in London Which we both say we fancy to go into yeah if we can but that's a photography museum Would you ever go to an art museum Nick? Is that something you'd ever do? Yeah, I do. Oh, yeah often Yeah, I don't run the RWA in Bristol the rawest film in the academy say Yeah, they're quite you know, I'll go there often if we if we went to London last time we went to see done the

9:24Tomaclick the Tomaclick Expression so we always do one photography thing and then one art thing so that's that's how we kind of We're going we're going way to the same place because otherwise we'd be in different directions all the time so Yeah, and there's a really interesting Instagram account where it's called and I would have to put in the show notes What it's called, but it's something like understanding paintings and it shows a very you know famous that they it's typically fine art paintings sort of Italian sort of Renaissance sort of painters You know sort that that realism genre, you know, and it's it zooms in to various different bits as you scroll through the caracel on Instagram And explains what it means and and you can really see there's you what looks like a nicely painted picture has got real strong story elements behind it really quite emotionally pulling story elements That and it's a really good way to sort of look at painting And understand a bit more about what's actually going on with which which is something that that I probably need to improve on it It makes you think when you look at paintings after seeing this this channel I'm going to start looking for those themes a bit more often, you know, and it's that's a great idea

10:27I was frantically googling why you were talking that because there was a TV or a number TV series on BBC Two BBC four perhaps about art history And I can't remember his name and again, I put it in the show notes, but he was a he's a professor of artistry in the UK Got a Hungarian name like Valde Mayer Valde Mayer I think something like that. Okay, and he's quite a sort of short sort of Stout guy, so he's probably that way any kind of waddles around but he but he the way you may be presented I got absolutely hooked on you know the The Renaissance or if you're American the Renaissance Yeah, and and him explaining those things and I know nothing about that but I haven't somebody who Took the time to explain, you know, what was going on in this painting the background to it What was going on at the times? I found a fascinating and I think I could get into art from my history Yeah, absolutely Because it is a bit of a it's quite hard to get into isn't it? It's something that can be bit impenetrable sometimes especially more abstract forms of art where it just It's hard to see what even you're looking at sometimes and and having a bit of direction

11:29Especially when it's from someone Instagram. So you're not having to sort of be patronised by somebody And I think I'll watch me sometimes. I'd feel a little bit sort of I don't I'm not worthy kind of thing Yeah, totally yeah totally get that and it it really goes through the scene and What's happening and what's led up to this this painting being created and there's loads more than I Considered, you know, I knew there are painting real scenes But there's little elements like someone in a doorway and it's you know It seems on their face and shows that that person's we disappointed about what's happening and and then the story builds a brand Yeah, fascinating. So it will definitely revitalise my View on going to see art and try and look at it in that way without me having to ask Dawn about it Which she would have you know gone through detail about those things, but this I could I could pretend I come up with it myself As I said, I was in Amsterdam last week and the hotel I stayed in right central at Amsterdam the The decor was sort of wallpaper and as if and it was if somebody had peeled away from the wallpaper and there And there was wallpaper behind it, which it wasn't this how it was made to look but the wallpaper behind was of

12:33Pictures of the Dutch masters Okay, you know the great artist together the name after them really, but I thought it was kind of cool the way it was was done really So I think that that was my my way into art and photography really was going to Amsterdam in the digital TV Industry because there's a big show out there could I be see Um at the REI you know, it's a photography show sized exhibition But all of digital TV stuff and mics and cameras and platforms software codex all kinds of things And so I would always go to somewhere like the rights museum to see the Rembrandt pictures And that has definitely you know, that was the first time I've been to a gallery on my own I just thought let me go to a gallery and actually look at what you know look at some paintings And I found it a really emotional thing and you know I was sort of You know Tearing up but looking at some of these Rembrandt paintings which I still do now And that has definitely informed when I and this was before I started photography This is that definitely hasn't formed my style of photography, which is quite dark Lots of gyroskuro, which is the you know, using sort of little pockets of light

13:36Yes in shops and things like that, you know, they're Rembrandt lighting being a good example of that And yeah, so it's definitely informed that and that's Without that I would almost certainly have a very different style I think if I'd not had that before I started doing photography So there's definite benefits to you know looking at art and and you know art history Did it whether the actual I think that might put if I was told that it's getting to talk to him Be good sort of you need to understand art history I think I might have been more put off by that. Yeah, perhaps. Yeah, I think I did that way because I like history I've always liked it always liked history So the history was going on at the time which would inspire the artry. Okay, well interesting Let me know what you think about that one dear list But that's got us off to a an interesting start Number two, again, this is definitely going to be controversial And I'm not sure either of us have really qualified to answer this one. We'll be able to go to street photography has become repetitive Well, I'm certainly not qualified to do it because other than Understanding and even teaching some extent the theories behind street photography and now you can start So it's not something that I practice often on my own. So I'm far from an expert

14:38So what are they talking about Somebody walking through out of a shadow with an umbrella. There's a lot of that isn't there really yeah So I follow a lot of street photographers. I don't claim to be a great one. Don't I enjoy it But you do get a lot of here's a picture of a random person walking through a pool of light Under a bridge in London kind of thing Yeah, it's nice, but is it in regional is it different? I like anything with photography just like we've on the previous question that Jack GPT served us up about art then there has to be some sort of story there has to be some mood or message being communicated through that and that's Absolutely it if not more so the case with street photography that it should be creating humor or irony or Pattern or or geometric shapes or something like that and it and I've done this with with classes before sort of going to Bristol and And done a classic shot of somebody walk, you know with red jacket Walking past a blue bit of background like Kroge of our background a backslide going to a red bit You know just that those contrasting colors, but it's there much of a story being told there possibly not But it's you know, it's on the way towards that that kind of street photography idea, but

15:43Just doing that alone. I don't think makes a street photography Image particularly engaging. I put one on my personal Instagram this week, which I think you liked from a Photography in London a couple years ago and it when the the murals on the wall it was an advert I think in a store and and it was a couple of you know larger-than-life faces looking out And there was somebody walking in front of the main looks like they were looking at the person Which was you know, but it's not original It's not the thing about that that's remotely original at all really I think there's there's two sort of approaches to street photography really the one is you walk around a lot Take lots of photos or look for things and you just get lucky Something amazing happens in front of you there and then and you just get the photo But that's obviously completely how you could roll really isn't it really yeah, that's just you know I've spent days walking around London and nothing to remotely is interesting is happening for me Or you see a pool of light or you see Something that's of interest and you say right. I'm gonna stand here for an hour or whatever Wait for somebody to walk into that light or wait for somebody so that

16:47magazine is directly above their body So it looks like their head of the magazine is actually their body that kind of thing really and that's probably easier to do in that You can actually set that up. Yeah, it's more precise isn't it? It's a bit more precise and it is easy It's easier to do because if you rattle through 100 photos as that person will say you're gonna get one where the timing was just right But and the other the other type that I I find very engaging is that almost confrontational Style where there's that there's that photographer with it. It's it. I think New York It just goes right up into people's faces before they've even had children to be aware Yeah, and and sometimes they're completely out of focus or someone's out focus right the foreground and there's and they're really engaging and it It's not telling a single story as such but that you can really feel life because it's life being captured Before anyone that scene has our chance to React in any other way Yeah, there is an exhibition on at the Martin Palm Museum We've been able to go to a foundation sorry in Bristol Obviously Martin passed away a couple of weeks ago, but he wasn't I don't you but you call him a street photographer

17:47He was a you know social observation of a photographer rather than just a street photographer But here's pictures always had a story. Yeah, there was always a reason for the photo You know, it wasn't just you know, here's a here's a cool scene with nice lighter whatever I think also and forgive me. I have my dear friends at Fujifilm for saying this, but I think there's also a Trend that says street photography is a Fujifilm camera with a cool film simulation loaded That isn't true. There's a street photography to me. That's just you know using Camera profiles to make pictures look interesting. Yeah, look nice colors. You'll be saying I think I think that method of Take a street photography to show life and almost document history Which is a bit more like Martin Palsworth, isn't it? Showing a thing and another person that's brilliant at this is Peter Densch Agreed and like so photographing I think if listen's not for me Peter Densch's work going go and see it there's a whole series he's done on Brits the Brits abroad type shot see and and

18:49You know results like black pool and things in the UK and showing a particular portion of a British culture And it just does it brilliantly and it's you know the colors are quite slightly faded so that it feels very nostalgic it and and for a lot of us that have been to those places When we're younger you feel like the photo could have been taken when you were there there then so yeah Really love his work as well. Agreed. Yeah, and I think I mentioned before on this podcast one of my favorite photography books All time is the doogie Wallace hens and stags in black pool Well, he's been to probably a couple years hanging around in black pool photographing hennights and stagdows or bachelor parties for the for the Americans Which if you want to see the low points of British culture welcome to the UK that's the book divine so Yeah, I mean don't you know who are we to say what street photography should be shouldn't be To me street photography spending a day walking around against some exercise and if he has nice pictures then so be it really but yeah I can share his the process. It is the process and if you're like it's like fishing Isn't it people enjoy fishing without catching anything because you're being more mindful

19:49You're spending time thinking about you know, you're not strolling and things and street photography Even if you don't get lucky with any any scenes particularly you've spent a few hours Looking at light looking at different angles and scenes and what might happen and so even without capturing any photos your Skills in those areas having proved super point throughout that super point All right number three. I'm not sure if I understand it's actually here The best camera might actually be the one you don't think about in other words do small cameras often produce better work Do similar camp simple campers don't oh, I see what it means So basically ones where you don't have to spend half an hour trying to work it out to switch it on and what many is to press yeah I guess and you're not funny around with lenses maybe I mean the the extension of that is is presumably an iPhone You know is it saying the an iPhone if you're not spending any time thinking about it You can just get out and not think about how to take the picture. Yeah is there benefits to that I don't know I think I don't certainly don't think there's any harm in taking photos with an iPhone if you're No, of course doing street photography and you're and you're finding these moments then

20:52As I think street photography with all the grain sometimes slightly out of focus it lends itself to actually not having Necessary having the best kit and two grants but the lens is on the end of it, you know, so and also not does Fafing about really I did when I was walking around and a bit of time in Amsterdam for But look I got a couple hours to go. I did have a walk around I didn't got a camel with me, but I did get my phone out and and for once I mean it's a lovely day today now as well I should say but if I'm once the sun was shining and there's some nice light and shadow and I was Playing around with the iPhone playing around with the exposure slider but the whole experience is just Terrible really just doesn't I just don't enjoy it. I don't know about you I mean if I want to take a picture of the grandson quickly the phone great, you know But to go out and take some photos on a phone. It's just a whole bunch of experience Yeah, I don't I think it would like we're in antique. I did shoot I took some photos of XT5 I also took plenty on the iPhone, but the iPhone ones were very much What this is a lovely scene. I've got the camera with me. I just want to remember it in Like I said before nice use the wide angle lens on the on the count on the phone

21:53It is pretty dramatic and it does show you know It does show that and they are quite serviceable pictures If I was doing anything more intentional light going out specifically to take some photos I definitely wouldn't do that just with the phone because I know that if I did find something I'll be a bit disappointed that I didn't have my camera with me. Yeah, I think that's right Yeah, I don't know you see these things on you know social media and I guess I'm an Amazon These sort of grips that make the phone a bit more like a camera. Have you ever used one of those? Blue tooth handle and a shutter button. Yeah So I can't see the point really like it made on now, but they like it and they're selling one. Yeah But just I just don't get the point really. Yeah, and they too lens it you know extra snap on lenses that will Yeah, give you a wide angle and you know, I think they all look pretty terrible. Yeah, get a camera. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay Number four, and I definitely agree with this one. Social media has made photographers less patient It's certainly yeah, I would say so as well. I would agree with that. You won't wait I think the social media has become very

22:54immediate and the quality of an image that you post social media seems to be less important than it was maybe five years ago Yeah, and certainly you know, we're we're seeing a lot of reduced traction for just posting photos on social media full stop So you do need to have Reels and video ideally and it doesn't really matter what whether it's a phone you see You know hundreds of thousands of likes on a Real It might be really entertaining, but it's just shot on a phone. You can see it's poorly lit It's they've not considered any anything to do lighting. They're using the iPhone Microphone even though it's a distance away. So it's not really clear But that doesn't seem to matter in terms of whether people are gonna like it and ultimately the people like it because Instagram are feeding it to them So it clearly doesn't make any difference to Instagram's algorithm about who's gonna see that post all that who knows how that works Of course, yeah, yeah, I mean Instagram has long since used to be a photography Social media. It's it's it's social media and the photography is incidental really I'll think about this to this morning actually when I think about what we're gonna do today really where do you put your photos?

23:55Where do where do people who want to show their photos to other people? Where do you put them these days because Instagram isn't the place anymore? I see a lot of people using Facebook some people see this flicker don't they mean flicker was designed for that and it You know even had extra features they started adding extra features like comments and you know Confessions that could happen around a photo Um, but I don't know people that and many people that use it regularly But then I don't know many landscape photographers, you know, we're not in that I'm not in that kind of community Maybe that is more popular with those but it's not that you have to share your photos I mean, I you know, I don't really often don't post any pictures of mine that I take anywhere when I'm paying pictures The actor taking photos and the fact that I like a photo is good enough for me I don't need to get the depth of me hit from from somebody I'd never met before liking a picture on social media But I know a lot of people do yeah, yeah, I could see one that would be So many people are looking for that incident here to looking for that extra validation I've done something right and very spiky when they get some negative comments of course as well And in fairness to Instagram that is a bit more of a return to type isn't it?

24:56That's how the platform started I can remember when I first started using Instagram which would have been 2015 or something like that when I started taking photos It was much more tricky to upload decent quality images from my DSLR Than it is that it was designed really to just be a you know, taking shots with your phone camera Put your filter on there Yeah, you had to go through I mean nowadays you can just select your camera roll to but you still have to Upload it to their first try and find the damn photo and then and then post it that way It was much harder than that originally and I think they did resist people making it really easy to do that for quite a while Before you know before being you know coming to that and they maybe they're going back to perhaps they're realizing that Maybe people should be using Facebook for that maybe they want people to use Facebook for that and using Instagram for more immediate Condoms like you know authentic real moments and footage rather than curated stuff. I don't know We don't ask me about the tiktok because I'm way too old to think about tiktok. I don't understand tiktok

25:59But you want tiktok? I have quite an occurrence, but yeah, I don't I say how to use it I came off twitter quite a while ago because it's a cesspool of people shouting at each other. It's a great Yeah, yeah, I used to I used to twitter Yeah, the same way. Yeah, I used to use it for publishing photos and things like that and no I can't You know, I think if I the problem with something on twitter if you just do that and don't engage anywhere else No one's going to see your pictures. This usually starts to look around for it for other places to engage You're in a cesspool again, so it was it was definitely improvement for my mental health to get rid of Just delete that. I must admit though. I do have threads the The sort of meta version of a sort of twitterist bridge and I do occasionally go in there I have to smile at the post that was in there today, so who's a the post of I always say his name, but let's say quite a young chap who's obviously met a lot of money I think in property in leads and it was him and his sidekick had basically paid 150k to rent a private plane to get out at a Dubai And basically the post was saying this is what money gets you, you know

26:59When you got money you can do all these things and the comments below were just fantastic Non-repeatable of this podcast a lot to fall into words, but basically, you know Well, I had that thing did you see Steve? I I do similar thing on facebook and look through it and if there is really horrendous racism Or homophobia I can't just I can't not say anything I feel it's my fault I call it and I think people should stand if you're going to say something viral Then you should you know if it and if somebody like me saying what's your data for this point you're making And if then that's a reasonable it's not just slinging, you know, we're saying that I'm not just being offensive and calling them names I was asking for some data That person then went into my business page and gave me a really foul review saying that I'd Something no way. Yes And they'd gone down a line of the classic trope of something to do with Nick Church was looking horrible man looking at young girls at the All day through the wedding. So they just made up some

28:00Nonsense thing and I'm curious why is it that they always go to that is the thing that really that should be more worrying But that's their first thought about how can I insult this person? I know I'll make some kind of really horrible comment about you know children Have you got it off? Have you got a deleted? No, I've reported it I reported it on the plus side. I did put it as a real on Instagram as well and it was my Best performing post by about Thousand percent so like 37,000 views views on it. You're right though I got called a notch on on a Facebook post the other day when it was a Aston Villa Suddenly my football team. It was a developer villa group and so many posted this horrendously racist England Should with the villa badges are over there. I said that you know, I think it's very fancy and I got called a notch Yeah, that's a group. Yeah, it's a fireplace social media What it's a it's a necessary even unfortunately in our learner work, but it's it really is a fireplace. I mean this is off topic a bit anyway But the I remember one that my kids used to use a few years ago

29:04I don't even know if it's a thing or is it be real? Have you heard of that? Yeah, it's a social media. It's like Instagram as far as I can tell I didn't ever get an account the idea is that you post on this you have to post the same time every day So you get like a two-minute window and it's so it's all about not creating You know, it's just you have to take a photo and you can only use your camera And it's take a photo about what you're doing today So where are you and if you're just sitting having a coffee in front of the TV That's what you take a picture of and it's it's about showing your real life rather It's just trying to counter this idea of Influences creating and curating their own life to make it and to be something completely different Yeah, so that's quite interesting, but I don't know if people carry on using it I'll have to be very very boring if I do that If it's a very boring photos of me do very boring things But I thought it might be quite good if if if it made you know, I was thinking if I did use that and the last four days I'd posted Me just sitting from XL or Lightroom working It might make me think do you know what I'm going to go for a walk today and do something a bit different And it would actually promote something

30:06Promote doing something a bit a bit different rather than trying to artificially create this different life that we have Don't absolutely a life. It doesn't exist. All right number five We've had this kind of one similar before which is a different good point Most photography YouTube channels are a bad gear because creativity is harder to teach Is the Nick Church photography academy owner? Yes, well that is basically the reason there Razon Dattra for the Nick Church Creative Academy is that Trying to learn photography via YouTube is tough because it's unstructured You're learning about settings and random things and you you that there's that's not the most important thing It is important But not as important of all those things I mentioned earlier like you know finding light and how to find a mood and what's the purpose in that photo and those things are really hard to And it's hard to teach that when you've got a CF content anyway because Who's opinion you listen to because it's really hard to know who to listen to that so that's why that photographer Unleashed course that I've launched is Basically combining the technical side of photography and camera selection and lens selection

31:07And also the secrets that we use to create meaningful communicative photography Which is two separate things so yeah, so I hope that continues to be a really crap way for people to love photography because Keep selling courses I guess they're the ones that people watch the most of the best performing podcasts ones are the ones where we've got So in geary you like lenses or cameras in the title They're the ones that people get the most because unfortunately that's what people yeah I think that's and that's certainly if I need I had on my motorcycle helmets over there. I had a friend over yesterday. We were trying to work out head to get the Consystem connected for the riders And that's a classic just go to YouTube and just find a video where it does it You know, that's and that's a perfect I think it's a perfect platform for that And if it was to find The best lens that in this budget or the best 85 mil lens like I watched a great one a few years ago, but the best You know, it it a review of I think it had like 10 or 11 85 mil lenses for Sony

32:08And they were sort of you know doing pros and cons of all of them And it was fascinating. It was a really good input But if it was if it was to take an 85 mil lens and try and communicate how you use that to do to create the best photos That's much more difficult to do. Yeah, and it probably wouldn't be as popular as a Video yeah, ironically wouldn't it wouldn't be you're right about it being great for finding out to do things I fixed my dishwasher is that it was a YouTube channel It is great for that really but probably I'm from being honest I mean, I follow lots of photographers on YouTube and we are on YouTube for the way to listen as well Although we are somewhat behind with some of the episodes. Well, we were central But the ones I tend to watch things you know like DP review as it was and whatever they call petapixel guys They're about gear really and the ones I get to watch and that's probably the most most popular But it's probably not the best place to learn go to Nick church creative academy Nick church grave academy.com. Yeah, exactly. There's a I noticed today that I had a Photography show is coming up in yeah, no Are you going or will you be away during Did you know what are you going?

33:09I'm doing a couple of talks there. Yeah, it's what yeah, in that case you probably are Yeah, I'm definitely what days are you there going to just like I make sure I avoid 15th 14th 14th 15th the much I get back from some of the single poor on the 15th unfortunately mate But 16th and 17th I could do you go something when you choose it doesn't it? Yes, it does yeah Okay, yeah, am I going to like to talk to our about Beginnery type things the ones about the histogram Bit more of a sort of tongue-in-cheek view of the idea of this is what your histogram should look like so that's pretty entertaining Yeah, and one on my process for using manual mode for people that have Either you're stuck in at auto or aperture priority and just find all a bit of a mystery So it's a process for that so but if any listeners are there then please do come up and say hello. I'd love to yeah Absolutely, yeah, unfortunately, I won't be there mate. I'll be in the air But so I'll try and go along and we'll do it and not to buy anything because we're not buying gear anymore honestly There's a rather nice Sorry, blowing me in trumpet a lot of years a rather nice article in digital camera magazine

34:09All right, about Nick Church a grace for Academy. Can you put the link to the show it? Yeah Okay, so yeah, so for me it's like it's in the the like a double page article so it's in the in the version it's out now What don't which will be going through the show as well? I think they're handing it out at the show So they're basically sort of featuring a few people that are doing talks at the show So yeah, that was fun. Yeah, yeah, it took me long enough. Can I get an autograph? Right. Let's crack. I can't wait a few more of this Yeah, number six and I agree with this one perfectly sharp photos are often boring I think photography is obsessed way too much about sharpness way too much Are we talking about lens optics sharpness or whatever we whenever you want really? I think you know in perfect photos out of focus could be I mean intentionally at a focus I mean focus problems with lenses is not good. Is it full stop? So if you've got a DSLR this it's back focusing or something then Um, it's not ideal but it I mean intentionally making things out of focus can be pretty powerful but quite interesting Yeah, like a intentional camera mode with things like that perhaps as well Yeah, and you say is that trend still going on in wedding photography? Would you say the the out of focus shots? I mean it is certainly

35:15I'm not on purpose Yeah, that's of your of your feet. I think if it's not a focus shot of your feet, it doesn't count My the best the photo I'm best known for you and you know the one that you just behind me on the wall They want the three older people at a wedding. Yeah Two grandparents are an aunt just looking bored at a wedding That's not it focus. It's actually out of focus. Yeah, it's the moment that matters. Yeah. No, of course From from that side of the thing I think focusing and sharpness It's important that it looks Intentional so it is if it looks like that it's supposed to be sharp I think it's if the fight you know if it didn't quite here It's you know, it's fine If it's in things we intentionally out of focus like and it's not just focusing on one thing and letting other things blur out There's this this this this genre of the whole things out of focus is intentionally really soft like an old, you know Manual SLR camera. There just hasn't been news properly and that that was popular a few a few years ago certainly That's true. Yeah, I think I think sharpness is ever played And I think people obsess about lens sharpness when they're buying lenses

36:18But actually when you actually come to use it, you know, unless you don't blow up the size of a house It there's that and the fact that a lot of the Lend the sharpest lens are actually sharper than the sensors going to be able to resolve anyway That's a good point. So it's a bit like the idea that we all buy tv's it and platforms it will support 4k Delivery of content and then we sit six meters away from the TV and you might as well be in HD because the the resolution in our eyes is That distance is lower than the TV. So it doesn't make any difference Which is why when they get you into by tv they stand you right next to it Because you can see the blades of grass and all that and then doesn't matter after that Yeah, I just we mentioned Joel Merl with earlier And we do need to go and see that talk But his famous photo of the fallen man in Paris which I think is a man having a epileptic sees you I think in in in Paris. I just just google it and if you look at that actually the focusing point actually isn't on the man It's on the railings Infrared to the man who's fallen But so what? It was a moment, you know

37:20And it's a very famous photo and a very Important photo as well. So I think moment to me is the most important thing in the kind of photography we do the moment And the composition that Trump's I mean, it's kind of he's going to be remotely in focus Yeah, I think there's a point where if it's not focused enough that it's just not a viable photo It was just an error and you've just got to Just yourself off and try again next time, you know, but it seems like I've tried to photograph my tracing Yeah Yeah, I mean if you if you focus if you put on the point you focus too much on, you know, getting the shot But it just looks like a carbox looks like a car stationary. That's right. Yeah, it's so the um, yeah that that technique of moving your camera Trying to pan at the same time that can be really good, but you know, that's that's gonna give you Like 80% shots out complete that focus or certainly promotion blur in which and you get that one that's just right and then Then it makes it all worthwhile and then you're famous photographer. Yeah, okay, uh three left full left Um, and that can definitely relate to this one photographers often travel too far to take unoriginal photos

38:24So this is like the the Instagram versus reality typeposts. It's a little bit almost like You know, I'm good. I'm in India. So I'm going to take a photo of the Taj Mahal the same photo Just taking because I'm in India And there's only so you know, you know, there's a clear vantage point to take it out and every photo is gonna look basically exactly the same Yeah, I do yeah, I do agree with that. I've done it There's there's definitely a case for you can just wander around Your locating we talked as before just wander down to a local park or woods or garden and you can You can just find some lovely shots to take you know, you don't have to travel far at all There is there's also a case though where I do feel some people Would be possibly better and it sort leads into the sharpness, you know, if you are investing thousands into the sharpest possible lens You may be better off spending a bit of that on a travel budget to go some if you really are not inspired by the scenes around you I a plane to Iceland's like 60 quid Funnily enough, he mentions Iceland here, you know Iceland Iceland waterfall syndrome talks about I know what it means by the how many photos you've seen are that famous waterfall yeah

39:28In Iceland, yeah, yeah, but I suppose there is that sort of I'm going on holiday I'm gonna go and take some photos and get you sort of up for your game kind of thing really today I'm taking photos it makes I think I think the same having said about gear early on in this pod I think getting a new bit of gear sometimes can give you a creative boost as well Just the fact all got something to try. Oh, I do some a bit different and I'll go and make an effort with it But I think these these waterfall photos. I mean, yeah, they are the same the size of my heart another example I think Taj Mahal to go to India specifically to go to Delhi to get that would be Properly correct. I'm not that one. No, I get in the door. Yeah, and bister the Taj Mahal and bister high street The but I guess if you did that and then also went around, you know Delhi or another village and took some street photography or some shots of people and got just a real variety of things And that's a really valuable trip to do and and if you are doing that if that they would probably be the most the more Engaging shots those those other ones of people and life going on But if you're there you probably would be mad not to get to Taj Mahal and take a picture as well

40:31And everyone has you know Everyone has taken you know those people have taken those photos of waterfalls including myself But I've only taken one of it so I I wouldn't go back again and take the same photo But I really wanted to get those shots when I was starting out it was sort of almost a bit of writer passage to go and I guess take a photo. Yeah, I guess and who are we to Great size or people do anyway, but I can I can see to the point there This one is is a controversial one editing has become more important than shooting I frankly always have hated editing and I'm still hate editing Yeah, quite it's very different I think from event type photographers than it is for other genres and and I think well actually let's broaden that every genre has got its own Answer this question. So something like a landscape photographer Is going to be a lot of editing because every every of that image is really important So it's a lot of man you're brushing and that is a very phrase things is like painting when you do a photo like that When you're taking portraits and studio to get you know the background like you write if you are creating shadows Then the editing process is really important for that as well when you're doing events and weddings

41:34Then it is more of a necessary thing to do to get to get those images to be how you want them to look to look like your style and I think any any wedding photographer would probably be lying if they said they'd really love to sit down and edit 700 800 wedding photos There's a lot of repetition isn't it even with some of the automation and stuff in my room and even using things like Aftershoots or Imogen or that we go to these kind of guys there is still some degree of repetition and it really which is what makes it tedious I think really yeah Yeah, and that's that that's when you you know you are you're working in a way that you you know You have a quality that your clients are expecting so you want to get it to that point But it's not you know, it's not always you're not spending loads of time on to get on one particular image There's only a handful isn't there. I'm sure everyone's are saying there's a handful of images You do spend a bit longer on to edit. Yeah, the killer ones. Yeah, there either the killer ones or ones that just about crept into the set That are on the best ones and they might need a bit more You give a coffee through is it well made? A bit more of a polish and you're thinking if I just remove this from the set

42:37Is anyone going to notice probably not in which case it probably is worth removing? Yeah, just that's the one of them exchanging rings I think that they nothing important But I think it is for for a lot of genres It is the other half of the coin of taking a photo is is the edit you know the editing side of it I know a lot of people love it. I don't like and I can't get into it if I need to I just if I let you say oh it's so underwhelming in the photos to do is like okay Get going and done rather than thinking. Oh, I've got editing to do. Yeah, but it is part of the job of course I wonder how long A you know one of the best so the best Landscape photographers that I've met is Gianforka gola that we had a lot of time And I'll be sure to ask him how long would would he spend editing one of those images? That's a question. You know be really interested to see whether it's Five ten minutes or whether it is you know a few hours if he was going to it If you're a landscape photographer listening and you'd like to tell us about your editing process We'd love to hear from you. Yeah, we really keen to hear what the balance is between How long you're spending on each photo if you are taking eight hours per photo

43:37They don't expect to do a live demo on the podcast Hey, yeah Not quite that long. We'll pre-record it and speed it up a hundred times. I'm Played a ten time speed right to left and this is what I know you're gonna not necessarily having opinion on can They don't do it film photography is sometimes nostalgia rather than better photography. You've never took film photos Not not in not since I was a child with a compact camera. Yeah, okay. I still do Yeah, no, do you know Simon Akkins or any photographer? Yeah, he I know he's definitely offering a film package as part of his Option we've got one couple this year actually got a wedding at the Bodleian Library in in Oxford and they've asked for some film photography Okay, I'm not sure why I hope the honest but they've asked for it and then obviously we'll happily oblige I mean, I definitely see it. I mean I see a couple of people that been on the part. Do you know friends of the pod? Geron yeah, so Geron Roberts takes film out weddings as does Jan Created a picture studio. They you know that they do film as well And I've always got the question you just asked is I get it and I can get how it's fun from the photography aspect

44:42But I wonder why couples want it, but maybe they do maybe there's there's a reason and maybe the reason is the same reason I don't do it because I don't see Like that process as being particularly interesting to me right now I would like to try it because it I hate to Like more anything out that I've never actually tried. I haven't ever tried to take a film And so I would sort of I think a lot of the stuff a man film photography is is the same feel as to why people like me play record Yeah, still because it's the experience of putting a record on the turntay will move in the arm across lowering the cartridge blowing the dust off listening to the warp or whatever It's sort of the process more than the output really But that's a introspective thing that isn't it isn't it the fact that we like to play vinyl records because we like that process of getting at the sleeve and putting it on and you know getting the needle across If somebody was say okay, if you got you know, let me play you a song Which is more equivalent to what film photographers are doing if they're shooting film for a wedding Does that person it just wants to hear the song do they care about whether it's an MP3 or

45:42Apple music stream or or a final I know they do in some cases because there's loads of fantastic DJs that I've worked with It weddings that do vinyl, you know, and they've been selected specifically for that. So there are people that they do want that So I think let's perhaps differentiate the thing between People who were taking photos for fun and enjoy the process of film photography The pop slowing down a little bit knowing you've already got 36 rolls on the films that you can't spray and pray You know, and let's be on this film photography now. Ain't cheap. You know, the cost of a roll film cost a DMP's You know, you're looking at probably 30 quid minimum for the two things right then As opposed to sort of couples who are at or when or with the clients who are looking for film photography. What is it about Film photography that they're asking forward do they do they think that the output will look significantly different I'm not sure it will really, you know No, that's the thing that I'd love to hear you know if anyone does have opinion on that we'd love to hear it, you know, get into the Facebook group photography part and let's hear it because it would be I'd be generally interested about

46:45What someone that has either hired a photographer for an event or something and would like some film photography What is it that they're looking to get are they looking to get more? I don't know like Polaroid style photos Is that what they mean by film photography, you know, that sort of in stacks Polaroid time. Yeah. Yeah, so faded vintage style You know things which could of course be applied to any photo in light room you could create a filter to do that Quite easy or presently. Yeah, yeah I've been seeing that thing that filled you film with launch that looks like a super eight cine camera I haven't seen that one. Have you not seen it? So it's say It looks it's basically a box on a handle. Yeah And you can put in it or you do put in it in a Instax paper So it'll print Instax Prince and you can actually dial the decade that you want the picture to represent saying so this picture to look like it was taken in the 1960s So there's a nine you know, there's a dial on the side that says, you know, what they don't want And then but it'll also produce video which looks like super eight film. I mean, it's it's it's wacky's L

47:51I'm sure it'd be a great success particularly Asia Well, yeah, I mean they've and they've done their market research. They'll know that there's a You know, just like it did for the the Fuji half X or whatever is called. Yeah, yeah And so they know there are markets for these more niche Yeah, sort of getting back to basics a little bit Don't think I've gone to buy one. Put it that way. Let's send me food. You feel wants to donate one of course Right, I've found all question and one again, you would definitely relate to as the impressive area of the The greater economy the most important skill in photography is not technical. Yes, hard degree So I think the it is important by feel is important for all photographers to have an understanding of Manual matrix boja. So they're filming elements of this boja And I think that's the case for beginners all the way through to professionals I think that's really important. That doesn't mean that you don't then use Appartibority shutter priority manual with ice with auto ISO When when it helps you because you know if you if you would rather the camera just did did some things for you

48:51but not knowing When it's going to help you when it's going to bite you which in that it is a problem in it and Appartibority will bite you in low light So if you don't understand manual mode you're never going to get you never gonna understand the points where you do need to switch to manual mode Or you know to do something different in your settings at least so there are some technical things that I think are important But but the great photos that we see from all photographers over the world of all genres those It's It's not really important. So the idea of well, this is a great photo. What settings were taken for that is the wrong question to ask Isn't it and you see that very often in beginner photography Facebook groups when there's a nice photo being posted everyone's Desperate to know what settings are so that they can go and reproduce it But you can't reset things the settings didn't create that photo. It was the vision It was the light and it was what was happening in it in the moment And that's all the other things it make that different and I think as as we've said actually if it's a little bit over exposed Under exposed can be easy fix even if it's not quite sharp that at times

49:52Doesn't matter as much. Yeah, okay. It depends what kind of photography you're doing really. So if you're You know street photographer patience probably Particularly for your sort of the type of photographer likes to stand away for something to happen You know the wedding photographer empathy. I think it's important. Yeah, you know, being able to have You know, so kind of empathy with the people you're photographing You know even and I know Documented wedding photographers. We shared in the pod right now saying oh, I know I'd just take pictures But you've got to have so many to people's skills. Yeah There would nobody want to speak complete plonker the wedding out if it's macro type photography then Again, perhaps patience might be important. Yeah ability to understand timing When to arrive those kind of things. Yeah, it's good point. There are loads of areas Even non-related to photography that are important so they said understanding wildlife when they're going to be Exactly in either best shoot if you're a landscape photographer How do you research how do you use the tools available to you to research the light and the angle that where the sun's gonna be

50:56Because if it's not just down the road you may be booking flights and things to go and get that shot There's those things out weddings you've got Empathy as you said looking for moments having that six cents for knowing when something's gonna happen as happened yet And if you just wait for me as well. There were thinkers in that you've been in that situation 10 times 100 times before yeah Yeah, there's that and and any kind of documentary photography inclusive photography sort of being keeping yourself out of the way and Making other people a bit unaware that you're there is is a skill that again comes with practice and and You know, certainly that's something that I tend to do when I'm shooting events is trying Keep out the way where it's important to do so and yeah, absolutely It's definitely a lot of feedback. I get through reviews and things is all about oh We didn't didn't see Nick take off these pictures and as far as I'm concerned That's a pretty good thing because that's a result isn't it? Yeah, we want people to forget where even there Yeah, don't want people to go think People say those photographers were nicer than waiting like nice, but rather people say we don't remember the photographers Frankly, yeah, yeah, I mean it there's some reviews that I've I've had

51:57Where they said oh, and it was fantastic Really great fun that we had a right laugh, you know, and I tend not to lean into those reviews because it makes it sound like I'm With a twirly bowtike and Could stand up comic or a one-man one more like you're gonna. Yeah, good Bob the dance floor. Yeah party. Yeah Yeah, not that I've ever done that of course But there are photographers that do all those things as well and they're they're equally Absolutely, and that and that's they're attractive to a complete different sex with the market to someone like you are I you know, and that's why I think Wedding stuff you like all genres has got a market for everybody. That's why it's it doesn't ever get too crowded because All we can do is just markets one particular group of people. Yeah, I do customer. Yeah, yeah, you can't talk to the other I quite enjoy that. Well, thank you. Well to a certain well-known AI App and apologies for any year green as submissions that did cause Doing that So it's an important point to all seriousness But yeah, I quite enjoy those discussion points. So what are you up to next couple weeks?

52:59I've got a few well weddings are starting again, of course. Yeah, I've got some Talks coming up at the photography show and I'm doing some lectures at beam satzuma, which is a Higher education university and college in Bristol on photography and film. So I've got that coming up and then if yeah on shoot Why is I've got a few commercial shoots up in angus see that I'm in the planning stages of and yeah, like I said weddings Coming in pretty thick and fast at the back end of March Yeah, same here. We start to get really busy towards the end of March as well with our weddings Obviously, I've just got the trip to Singapore coming up as I say this week and a few Postal family events things are sort out as well So yeah, we're nice to go back and do the sound of doing weddings again. We've only done what so far this year But we have I suspect do yeah, so it's law being as it is that all of those weddings were coming just as we're about to move house I imagine because I think that's the way it will probably go and then of course I've got no studio So I'll be without without a proper office space For the foreseeable because that isn't something that our budget can stretch to straight away. So we'll have to

54:02Save up to for sure you get there. I'm sure you get there. Well, I've been a little sharp. I said I'll get a little show from being cute. If you see a blog Editing photos in the back of a car that'll be yeah You're a little was shared with a generator outside So if you've enjoyed this this dance is today dear list there. Thanks for listening We appreciate you taking the time to listen to us. I definitely if you listen to us on Apple or Spotify We would love to give you a five-star review just help us a lot to weird a wonderful ways as Nick mentioned We do have a podcast for photography Facebook group I just called the photography pod surprisingly So we would love to hear you there to a little bit neglected at the moment you'd put a bit of work into it Yes, yeah, but then you know that that's It's a community isn't it? It's a really so we we can't take full responsibility We need everyone to sort of get stuck in this I don't think because he's just because he haven't we haven't we haven't have my time But do you say it's the best way to get in touch with us and because it starts conversations You can get in touch with email as well, but we do really like those things on the Facebook group because then So let me have a bit of discussion about it. We can we can indeed we'll be lucky getting a couple of weeks time with another show in the meantime

55:08Happy shooting out there and we'll talk to you soon You