03-06-26_FRIDAY_7AM

0:00This hour of the Bill Meyer show podcast is proudly sponsored by Clousard Drilling. They've been leading the way in Southern Oregon well drilling for more than 50 years. Bite out more about them at Clousard Drilling dot com. Now more with Bill Meyer 12 minutes after seven. Carrie Lutz joins me. I've talked with him before. I knew him as the host of the financial survival network. I did not realize he was a recovering New York attorney. And anytime that you're a recovering attorney that there are interesting things, interesting things that go on in their heads and he has, and he's written a book called America's Great Parking Scam and Carrie, you have raised some, some issues that I was not even aware of because I don't park a lot downtown. I try to avoid downtown because they try to punish you every time you go into downtown Medford and other places because they'll put the speed cameras up for one thing. And then when you do get down, then they named them, they, they rode diet main street.

1:03Well, we got that turned back, but they haven't restored the street to where it was at first. But everything is about trying to punish you. And then I was going to a political event that this was a few months ago. And for the first time, I ended up looking at the sign, oh, okay, if I'm going to park here for a while, I have to download an app. I have to download an app on my smart phone and then I have to get there and get a credit card information and get all the stuff and get the app. So this will allow me to park on the city streets that I used to just have to pull out a quarter or whatever it is and stick it in there, but that is also, I don't know, 1995 or whatever. Okay, so tell me where this is the, the next big scam is it's not just the license plate cameras. Now it is the, the parking apps in the parking system. Tell us what got you into this in the first place, Carrie. Oh, yeah. Well, first, thanks for having me on on America's top recovering attorney. Very good. And so wrote the book because I got a ticket in a city in Florida called Riviera Beach.

2:10And I did never charge for parking in this place before it kind of took me back. And I wrote them and asked you letters saying, you didn't give notice. I didn't even see any signs there because you know the signs. You've been seeing them your whole life. Then I went back to the scene of the alleged crime and I found these signs they had were like beach scenes with beach balls and umbrellas and waves and sand. It didn't look like any parking sign I ever saw with a big QR code on it. And then I started researching and I found out an amazing thing that many of the on street parking signs in the United States are illegal under current law. Because and that's why I wrote the book. I actually filed a lawsuit in the United States District Court for the Southern District of Florida against the town of Palm Beach where a president happens to reside as well as five other municipalities. And in the town of Palm Beach, you have to download the app to pay for parking.

3:15You have no choice. So this is akin to Obamacare compulsory coerced contracting and the Supreme Court found an out for Obamacare because they said you don't have to buy the coverage. You can just pay the penalty. Well here if you don't pay it by the app, if you don't download the app, you get a ticket. So it's actually a violation. It's far worse, but it gets even worse than that. Because as we know, there are many of these people driving behind the wheel called minors. They're 16, 17 years old. They don't have the capacity legally to enter into a contract, which is why a bank won't give a 16 year old a credit card. And yet they are forced to download the app. And when you download that app and you click accept, you're entering into a contract with the app company, which minors aren't qualified to do.

4:15Now it's interesting. I hadn't really considered that, especially when you're talking about money exchanging hands, which is what you know, parking will do, right? Oh, it's even worse than that, though, because as a condition of accepting that contract, they waive their consent to arbitration for any dispute. They waive their privacy. They agree to data sharing with God knows who millions of entities, potentially. Park mobile, the largest one that claims to have 65 million accounts, settled a class action this year or last year, rather, in 2025 for $33 million, because 21 million records got breached. It's even worse than that, though, because the data they get when you park is your geolocation. The exact point at that time of the space on earth that you occupied. And for a minor, that is a major no-no.

5:15Texas has banned it, so there's no age gating on the app. The app in the app store is on Google and Apple specifically says that it's safe for ages for and up, which means everybody. And this has to change. It's going to change. The lawsuit's going to make sure. And look, before you pay your next parking ticket, you have to go over to parkscam.com. We've got in the process of releasing a parking ticket self defense kit. And you can join the National Association of American Defroted Parkers and help fight this thing. Okay, wait, wait, wait. Okay, I want to hear that name of this again. What's the name of this group again? The national, the NWA DP, the National Association of American Defroted Parkers. Okay, where did this all start in the first place, Kerry? Because now, I understand by maybe you don't want to have parking meters any longer.

6:17You know, they're mechanical. You have to hire pesking employees to go and monitor them, etc., etc., and empty them. Maybe people would have to protect them from theft and the money would be stolen and missing that the other. But you're saying that essentially what this is evolved to is just a huge scam everywhere at all levels. Digital, it's digital algorithmic extraction. Not only that, when you download the app, it actually builds a behavioral profile of you, where you park, where you stop, when you do that. If you stop at the 7-11 every morning to pick up a beer, whatever it is, it's, it's not real-time tracking you, but it's creating a behavioral profile. And it knows if you're a deadbeat, if you're getting tickets and you don't pay them. And what you refer to going downtown and being harassed by numerous enforcement methods, that's called stacking.

7:19And that's the next thing that they're already doing in New York City. And in Boston is the thing, Scanger Lensson's plate, the meter made, they call them parking enforcement officers now. But it's worse than that because it's not just writing you a ticket. It's searching numerous databases. For instance, it's looking to see, is your inspection sticker expired? Not even looking at the sticker on your car. It's checking the database. It's checking to see, is your registration lapsed? I'm kind of curious if it looks up things like your car insurance, too, if your insurance is good. Exactly, exactly. The only thing that doesn't look up right now is whether or not you have any overdue library books, but at the rate they're going, I'm sure that's the next. That'll be coming, that'll be coming, that'll be part of your digital contract to get the library app for the library act, and that's you. You turn your geolocation over to the Department of Homeland Security, okay?

8:21I'm only being a little sarcastic, just a little bit. Kerry Lutz is here and he's a recovering attorney. And I've talked with him before because a financial survival network is he's been the host of this for a long time. Are you still working with Armstrong, with Armstrong? You can do it. You still doing a lot of work with him? We released the latest book, the Armstrong Economic Code, the five-truth investors must never forget. It's been an Amazon bestseller for months now, and yeah, so I went from finance to municipal extraction and drift, because parking brings in billions of dollars a year. Do you know what the number one municipality is for a parking revenue? No, I don't. Let me know. New York City, they bring in over a billion dollars a year, and over 20 percent of the tickets written in the country emanates from New York, and their system is completely caflui.

9:26Also, on its side of the street parking is just designed to tow people away. I think their system brings in over a billion and a half dollars a year, but don't quote me. I don't know the exact amount because they try to hide it, but it's a giant drift. And the thing is, they've used this as free money. They don't have to raise taxes. The politicians say, well, just take it and find, and it's your fault because your park's wrong. Forget about the fact that the signs were deceptive, or unclear, or confusing, and there's a federal standard for those signs that none of these cities are complying with. I couldn't find one single sign in South Florida that complied with the MUTCD. It's called the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices. Now, to be fair, though, when I look at our city's parking signs, they seem to be pretty, pretty clear, at least I thought. I think Medford is just fine. It's just the standard one-hour

10:30parking to park longer, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Go here, depending on which block you are. So not everybody is doing it, but still, the very fact that you have to go to an app, though, means that you're being screwed in your view. Well, the app would be okay, but you have to pay the app to pay for parking. If there's an alternative available that is easy as a parking meter used to be, then that's fine, but the thing is that they've using the app once upon a time when you had to pay with coins, there was a limit to what they could charge because you couldn't carry around $50 worth of quarters in your pocket. Sure. Yeah, makes sense. Once they went to the app, then the sky's the limit. Basically, the only limit to what they can charge is your limit on your credit card. What could go wrong? Talking with Kerry lunch this morning. Francine, did you have a question for Kerry about this or a comment on the Great Parking scam,

11:34as he looks at? Boy, don't worry about comment, because I mean, you've somewhat touched on the general idea, but there are some of us, meaning myself as one, who choose not to use my phone as a computer. I don't go online with my phone. It's a phone. That's all I want to use it for, and there are people who have phones that do not offer the ability to go on the internet, I believe. So how can this is completely unfair to people that don't have that equipment that need to come into town? I mean, there's got to be some grounds that where that can be used to. Well, I mean, you know, Kerry, it is like the assumption that everyone is going to carry around a pocket tracking device at all times, and everyone has a cell phone. Now most do, I will say most people do, but that's not the point. That's a discrimination. Absolutely. And for people, ADA, maybe, you know, you might be fully functional, but you can't

12:37hold your, you can't stop your hand from shaking, so you can't touch the screen. There's actually a Department of Justice rule that's coming into play that's saying that all municipal apps must be ADA compliant. I think it's kind of the April 26th, they're June of this year. So that's coming into play. Well, the city of the town of West Palm Beach rather, where our president resides, leaves you no option but the app. And for the exact reasons you're talking about, it's probably unconstitutional. That's why they're the lead defendant in my lawsuit. But other places offer alternatives, but they're not real alternatives, because you have to call a phone number on the sign. That's what I saw in downtown Medford. You can call the number on the

13:37sign. Right. Yeah. And one thing you got to understand about the signs is that it might appear to be compliant to you, but until you compare it to what's in the approved signage that is actually a federal highway administration gospel adopted and that every state must adopt these uniformity standards either by statute or regulation. They have to incorporate them and the sign has to be seven feet off the ground. Is it four feet off? Doesn't count. It has to have what they call retro reflectivity that you and I would call reflectivity, but it is the government after all. Yeah. And and that means that you have to be able to see it at night and it can't be faded and worn out. The colors, for instance, if it's no parking or prohibited parking, black letters, white background or red letters, white background with a red stripe around it,

14:43if it's permissive, it needs to be a white sign with green lettering and it's got to tell you the hours of enforcement Monday through Friday, 9 to 5 p.m. parking two hours pay. All these things are mandated and they're all ignored. Or for instance, one thing cities like to do in Florida is Christmas tree stacking where they'll have a sign that looks almost legal and then they have five other signs around it. That's prohibited because you got to understand the traffic engineers who designed this code. They studied human behavior. This is a masterpiece of bureaucratic writing. They have behavioral psychologists, traffic engineers, all sorts of traffic experts. And the point is, when you're driving down the street, you got to be able to see that sign instantly know without

15:43without a decoder ring what it says. Yeah, you have to be able to to grok it instantly or very quickly without having to put a lot of because the old idea is not to distract you from your driving task. Exactly. Causing accidents and delays, but in a place like Portlandia, the MUTCD was passed with them in mind because in Portland, I could see people saying, red lights are so ugly, we're going to stop on green lights. We're only going to go on red. Hey, Kerry. That would be the perfect moral inversion with that attitude. If you're bringing that forward, you should join the Oregon state legislature. You'll be perfect. You'd fit right in with that kind of thing. That's the way Oregon works. Okay. Man, I got to tell you. All right. Let me grab another call for you. I think, you know, people fight. This is yet another one of those electronic irritants being brought into the system, which used to just work before. You know, the analog

16:47system seemed to work well, but she nobody likes that kind of thing. You know, if we're not selling your data, we're not happy, I guess. Hi, good morning. Who's this? Welcome. You're on with Kerry Lutz. Hi, Pam. Hi, Pam. Good question. If you're already paying to use the roads through your property tax, why are you paying again to be able to use them and partner? You are a genius. You know, they should hire you as a consultant because this is what we call you pay to pay. For the privilege of paying for their parking, you pay again a service charge or convenience fee. And that in itself is really questionable. All these things haven't been challenged in court because they just kind of happened. Correct. You know, they're all gray areas. As far as I know, mine is the first lawsuit ever brought by an attorney, a recovering attorney, where we're addressing

17:52these issues. The case is going to be decided, but it is. So the way most cities get around that is they give you a way to pay cash in a kiosk if they do, but if they don't, and you have to use a credit card, the city of Fort Lauderdale doesn't generally charge a third charge if you use a credit card, only if you use the app. But every town, every city is different, but the one thing you got to realize, the parking apps, companies, or are parasitic, they're extractive. The only thing that they care about is getting more and more towns and cities to charge for parking and to charge more because every time you use that app, they get their piece of you. And in my opinion, it's got to stop because the original purpose of parking meters encouraged turnover of the spaces

18:57in front of retail areas because people would park their old day. And it was some guy and Oklahoma City that invented the parking meter in 1930 something, 1932. Tinned the book, America's Great Parking Scam, you've been robbed. And from there, it mushrooms into the what I call the parking industrial complex. It's no less worse than the military industrial complex, the pharmaceutical industrial complex, or the medical industrial complex. They're all out to take money out of your pocket and give you nothing back. Yeah, Pam's point. By the way, thank you, Pam. Pam's point is, is, is, is interesting because it is true that in southern Oregon, most of the cities have some sort of a street fee, some sort of a public utility fee that they're mulleted for each month. And then when you actually use some of the services that you are already pre-paying to take care of streets, then you have to pay more and pay more and pay more. Okay. Yeah, we own

20:02the curve. Yeah. People own the curve. They've monetized it and they're renting it back to us $10 at a time. All right. Now then, what is the ask in your lawsuit? I want, I want to the, well, for one thing, I want those apps age-gated. I want children to have to get parental consent to use them. Really, what I would like to see is parking to go back to what it used to be. Rather than a stealth tax, have it used to either a, build off street parking, which is one of the original purposes to fund infrastructure to get cars off the street, because that is a benefit. And also to see that, well, when people have to go in and out of parking spaces, it slows traffic down on busy streets, which is actually a good thing. Traffic engineers

21:02like that. But I don't want to see it being a money grab where like New York City brings in a billion and a half dollars a year and nobody's watching. And they just raise the fees, the penalties, all of that. I don't want to see it as an extractive system. I want to see it as a system that actually benefits the people rather than grips off of them. America's great parking scam. You've been robbed. You can find out more about it. Just head to www.parkscam.com, parkscam.com. You know, if it weren't for recovering attorneys, we would never hear about the lawsuits like this. You're using your, your legal skills for good from the sounds of it. Kerry, huh? Totally, totally. Like in one city, I've uncovered a purchasing fraud, in my opinion, or what could be the improper contracting where they just totally bypassed competitive bidding. And they didn't even know what they were doing. And that, I filed a complaint with the Department

22:07of FAFO in Florida. We actually have one. It's something of Florida accountability, something organization, but also regulatory complaints to the FTC. And the main thing is, I sent two letters, one to Google app store, one to Apple's app store, demanding that they either raise the age limitation to 18, or that they drop the apps altogether. It would be the death now to the parking industrial complex. You know, the part that I admire what you're doing is that so much of the irritants of our life are, you know, the little neb knowsing laws, rules, regulations. It's like, you know, death of a thousand cuts on liberty that we have here. I enjoy hearing someone like yourself who is taking that system and reversing the sword. It's like, you're going to go have to move forward change. And I think we could all admire this.

23:09By the way, I'm going to link to your sub stack there. Excellent sub stack. Also parkscam.com, parkscam.com. And the book is America's great parking scam. You've been robbed and Kerry, a pleasure talking with you. Say hi to Martin, Martin Armstrong, you get a chance, okay? All righty. Thanks for having me on it. It's always fun. And I always enjoy talking to a recovering attorney. It is 735 and you're on KMED. Ready to upgrade your on Airway Drive. You're hearing the Bill Myers show on 1063 KMED. It's 737. Hey, after news, I would love to get you on the diner 62 real American quiz, little pala cleanser after listening to the parking warrior, Kerry, lots. I just love that story. I love someone who takes the the legal news and says, you know, this isn't right. Oh, guess what? They are violating the law. Oh, no one's doing anything about it. I'll file the lawsuit. Good. I love that kind of a story. David versus Goliath will see. Well, he'll keep us in the room on that particular story. Kind of reminds me of Dr.

24:14Gamer. And I think did I get the name right? Yeah. Dr. Gamer. I need to get him back on here because he was at war with the red light camera system here in Southern Oregon. And he ended up getting the traffic engineer that was at the Swedish traffic engineer. I think it's what it was and digging in and digging in and digging in. Now, I think we're in the discovery portion of that of that lawsuit. It's still a work in progress. I'll get him back on and get an update on that at some point. Yeah, the metaphor to chiropractor. Dr. Gamer involved with that. And it all started with him just getting getting nailed over there. It's steward and Barnett. All right. All right. Now there's another way you're getting nailed over at steward and Barnett with that the way they have those those lanes oriented there, but conversation for another time. We'll get him back on. Dr. Glenn Gamer. Yeah, that's his name. 738 diner 62 real American quiz is coming up here in just a minute. And after news 7705633770 KMED. Get yourself one of those amazing diner 62 burgers.

25:18Get a great breakfast. Whatever it is, you know you're going to love it. It'll be you'll fill your belly. You'll feel good. Okay. 770 KMED 7705633. Great question on American history coming up. One of each news brought to you by Millett construction specializing in foundation repair and replacement. Get on solid ground. Visit nalette construction dot com. Hi, I'm Charlene owner of American Industrial Door and I'm on 106.7 KMED. 743 the diner 62 quiz. We're going back to 1958 or so. It's what we're going to be doing in American history and for the diner 62 real American quiz. By the way, today is a clam chowder Friday. You want to miss that? Good stuff. Better clam chowder. You're going to get out of the coast. All right. I've tried the clam chowder on the coast. I think diner 62 is better. It's my personal opinion. All right. Let me go to Peggy. Hey, Peggy, how you doing this morning?

26:23Welcome. Hey, Bill. Good morning. Good morning. Indeed. It was March 5th of 1963. The Hula hoop. The hips swiveling toy. They became a huge fat across America was first marketed by WAMO in 1958 is patented by the company's co-founder, Arthur Mullin. His nickname was spud for some reason. I love that. But estimated 25 million Hula hoop sold in the first four months of production alone, 25 million. That was a lot in the day, right? Mellon and Fowalo, a fellow founder, Richard Nurr, were inspired to develop the Hula hoop after they saw a wooden hoop that Australian kids trolled around their waist during gym class. And so WAMO ended up producing a plastic version of the hoop. And they called it Hula after the Hawaiian dance of the same name. So here is the question, though, for the win Peggy. What product did WAMO first produce and sell? The Hula hoop was the big one, though, but what did they first produce and sell? Pretty interesting

27:27story. I got five choices for you. There's A, cricket bats, B, botchy balls, C, flying discs, D, boomerangs, or E, slingshots. It's one of those five. And what would you say? Was their first product? Boomerang. Boomerang. Yeah, it sounded like great fun, right? Yeah, Australian. No, I'm sorry. Good try, though. 7705633. Let me go to Aaron. Aaron is up here next. Hello, Aaron. Welcome. Good morning, Bill. Yeah, let's see. We got cricket bats, botchy balls, flying discs, or slingshots. What was the first product that WAMO ever sold? I'm going to go with the flying disc. The flying disc, the Frisbee. I think they did come out with it. No, it wasn't, wasn't that one. Thanks for the try. Let me go to Ron and met for it. Hello, Ron. Hey, Bill, how you doing today? I'm doing great. I hope you're doing well. So your choice is now here. The very first product for

28:30WAMO. Was it A, cricket bats, B, botchy balls, or was it E, the slingshot? What do you say? Well, as a kid, I always have one from the very start. If I didn't buy one, I made one. That'd be a slingshot. Yeah. You got it, Ron. In 1948, Arthur and Richard, they founded that company and to sell a slingshot and they created to shoot meat up to Falcons. That was what they used the slingshot for it first was to shoot meat up to the Falcons that they used for hunting and the company's name WAMO came from the sounds that the slingshot supposedly made WAMO branched out from slingshots selling boomerangs and then the flying plastic disc known as the Frisbee. Yep. That was part of it. And the Frisbee was originally marketed under a different name, the Pluto platter because we were all fascinated with UFOs at that time. And despite the enormous popularity of the Hula hoop, it's pretty short lived within a matter of months. They were onto the next big thing and they had

29:33all sorts of a lot of these things. I've kind of forgotten about here, Ron, but they had all sorts of novelty items, including the Super Bowl. I love to the Super Bowl. Do you ever had a Super Bowl when you were kid? I sure did. Oh, man. I love the Super Bowl. Water Wiggles, silly strings, slip and slide in the hacky sack. So you can't never get that together. Okay. So yeah, exactly. So Ron, hang on. We're going to send you to Diner 62. Have a great time this weekend for sure. 748 at KMED 7705633. If you're reminded, you're waking up with the Bill Myers show. You know, it's been a lot of serious news. And when you have too much serious news, you need a dad joke, dad joke of the day. And it's sponsored by our friends over two dogs fabricating on Brian way in Medford. And today, it's Patrick's great dad joke. A cow went in to buy an outfit to wear. What did she buy? Well, silly. It's a moomo, a moomo. Yeah.

30:34Yeah, you get it. Two dogs fabricating, by the way, they have a great sense of humor there too. I like to even mention in their ad you just go by there and you hear the barking, right? Brian way in Medford, all the custom jobs are under one roof saving your time, bringing your costs down and the dad dogs dad jokes rather sponsored by two dogs. And they have a great sense of humor, like I just mentioned, and iron bull for heavy duty trailers. They carry those by North Star and North Star trailers for the lighter loads. Check it out over to dogsfab.com. And you can also submit your dad joke there. Let me go to minor Dave. Hey, Dave, you're weighing in on the on the WAMO question on the diner 62 real American quiz, huh? Yeah, well, I just thought that memories because my dad got me and my younger brother wanted to share on this one shot. And it was a WAMO. Yeah. And then my dad had a habit when it was considered a weapon that he would give it to both of them. Me and my younger brother, like we got our first baby gun together. Yep. We learned

31:35to get along with it. And then we got a bow and arrow. We got along with it. And then we got a 22 rifle. And you know, there's something to be fed. They're giving a joint rifle to choose about a two cents because they learn how to get along. Yeah, cooperation, right? Right. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. Makes a lot of sense. My favorite WAMO toy, though, that I had growing up was the Super Bowl. I just couldn't believe, you know, literally, you could just, you know, bounce it off the asphalt and it would go over your house's roof and go on the other side. As far as I remember that, we didn't have one of those, but we were not interested in the ruler or the pet rock. Remember the pet rock. Now, did now, was that a WAMO? I don't remember that being a WAMO one. Yeah. Well, every now and then there's always a nonsense toy that comes

32:35out. You got to love it, though. And someone makes it, and someone makes a million bucks out of it or more, right? Right. Well, I got some locks. I can tell you. You got it. Yeah, we got a lot of rocks exposed, especially now that the climate dam has gone, right? That's kind of a, right? Well, you know, there's big money in rock. Yeah. Well, I think what they're looking for is specific rock. And that would be, you know, the specific gravel, the aggregate, that sort of thing. Thanks, spider-davers and grants pass. Hey, Ron, it's on your mind today, huh? Yeah, a couple of things. First off, I'm going to suggest that now that they're getting on with technology, that we need some kind of a heel pedometer, which can measure the number of steps that you take and then it can charge you that way. Oh, this is going back then to the problem with, well, the parking meters, right? The parking meters, you have to have a parking app, et cetera, et cetera. So one way or the other metford or grants pass, they're going to have to get your pound of flesh out of you, right? Right. And then they can also have some kind of an abrasive sensor because your shoes

33:37are going to wear away on the sidewalk and you've got to be packed for that. Oh, man. You're given these these city planners some ideas here. Yeah, we need to build the pedestrians a sidewalk fee for the wear or the wear and tear on the concrete. Yeah. Right. Now, I want to ask one more question. How come you can be pulled in the court when a camera takes a picture of your license plate, you're going too fast, you went through a signal when somebody else might be driving your car, and yet you are on the hook for that, shouldn't you be able to call the witness and ask the witness what to do what they how they came across you as a name and you were at the driver. I, you know, I'm kind of confused by your question, but all right, so all right. You're in a car and you're driving. Yeah. And you're in here and somebody else's car, and they take a picture because you went through a red light or you're going too fast,

34:40and now you get a notice from the driving department that you're going to be fine, $250 or whatever it is. And yet, it was somebody else's car was being Well, I do believe it right now, even right now, you can say, hey, that wasn't me. You know, I'm the registered driver. It's not me. I think you can make that claim. All right. You can't actually do that right now under the current system. All right. 7705633. Hey, Ron, have a great weekend. Good to hear from you. Let me grab another one here on Find Your Phone Friday. Good morning. Hi. Morning, Bill. I'm here. Hey, all this, you know, going on about how the, the, the, the local governments are in all the different governments are trying to extract the money out of people. The latest around here for me is a spectrum. I had a single phone line going into my business. And, and the charge went from $45 a month to $62 a month.

35:43Boy, how did that happen? Well, they say we're no longer going to do any paper billing. So that's that's where we're at now. Oh, oh, yeah. So if you want to, if you want to keep it at 45, you have to do the online building, a billing rather and autopay, right? Yeah. And, you know, an autopay and so forth like that, you know, every day, identity theft is happening across all these different corporations. The DMV of Oregon was hacked into. They hackers hacked into the Pentagon. There's no real security when you do autopay. So this is like another, this is corporations out of the government, uh, ransom me and, uh, I, I would call it the extortion. You're going to do it our way or, or you're going to pay. Yeah. It is kind of the way of the land right now. You're right. It, it is the reality where we find ourselves. The one thing I would add though on what I've

36:43done when it comes to the autopay, the autopay stuff went of all possible. I will use the credit card sometimes even with a, if some place will use a surcharge because at least the one thing about the credit card and I'll use a credit card that I have that has a relatively low credit limit on it, you know, like one of the smaller cards. And the beauty of that though is that there's a limited amount of, of, of hanky, punky that could be done with it. And second of all, you are at least protected on that. And if there's a problem when you, if you use a debit card on an autopay, I know it can be done and there may be some protections, but it's not nearly what you get with a credit card. And that's the sad reality of where we find ourselves. I don't know if I agree with that because with a credit card, they got your name, the address, you might have your social. Yeah, but they got your name, your address and your social anyway. You go to your other credit cards. And I know that the banks, everyone's, oh, I don't pay so safe. It's so secure. It's yes. It's not secured at all. Okay. All right. Well, that's why that I'm glad you gave your opinion.

37:48Thank you. Alrighty. Okay. All right. See you, Tom. Hi, good morning. Who's this? Welcome. Good morning, Bill Kevin Gill. How are you this morning? Kevin, it is great to hear from you. How is it over at Clouzer? Yeah, yeah, we're plugging away. I, uh, with great segment with Terry this morning, I wanted to weigh in on the parking and a red light camera stuff. I went to a chamber meeting downtown in Medford and parked in the parking lot and being back and looked at my windshield. There was a parking ticket on it and I'm like, wow, my pass was good for longer than this. So I took a picture of the ticket and my parking pass and then I looked around. There were tickets on all the ones, not all of them, but a bunch of them. Yeah. So anyway, what I figured out is harder to fight it than it is to pay it. So it's the default is for you to pay and then figure out how to fight it. Oh, now, so you're at a chamber

38:51meeting. So, but, but you had a parking pass and what would you have to do to challenge that? Do you have to go into the justice court system? That kind of thing. Well, there's a third party that does the parking and you have to go through them and try to figure out how to. I ended up beating it, but it cost me more than if I had just paid it. That's the racket, isn't it? In my time. That's the racket, isn't it? Oh, yeah. It's the opposite of the justice system. You're guilty until you prove your innocent. And this has been the issue that I've had with many cities and I'm not saying that this was actually the intent, but everything about the way they're working cities on one hand are saying, oh, we need a baseball stadium because we'll attract people and we'll have tourism here. Let's do tourism at dollar mountain in Grand Spass as an example too, you know, in your neighborhood, neck of the woods, you know, that sort of thing in all of this. But at the same time, there's this always attempt to mulch you and punish you, especially if we're using a car

39:56in the downtown areas. Is it just me or is it pretty much there? No, that's a great point. And pretty soon, people will park somewhere else or they won't go to the meeting at all or the restaurant or wherever that is. They'll pick an alternative that's less punitive. Yeah, the world will be just one big nasty zoom meeting of artificial reality. And but you see that's just it. It's almost like it's a programming you to not want to travel, to not want to go someplace, to not actually be with other human beings. You're supposed to be on your cell phone. Don't you understand that, Kevin? That's what you're supposed to be on your cell phone and your cell phone only. That's right. I was going to leave you with a funny Paul Harvey story. So please do. City of Beaverton did city traffic cams for red lights and this guy got a Paul Harvey was telling this story. He got a ticket in the mail. It was a picture of him running the red light. So then he sent the clerk a picture of money.

41:03And then the clerk sent him a picture of handcuffs. Yes, I heard that story years ago. I remember that story. That's a great one. It's a great one. I love that. Well, thanks Bill for for these great segments. I appreciate it. I appreciate your sponsorship over Clouzer drilling in the podcast tomorrow. Okay, you take care. You bet. All right. Kevin Gill from a Clouzer drilling and speaking of which, what do you know? Ronda talks about her experience with Clouzer drilling. Kevin came right.